Help! Having a horrible time... plants don't like me watering, why?

[sierra_mika]

Fellas, I'm a naive girl I guess, but over the last month, I've killed nearly 30 clones (approx. $600 worth of clones I purchased from Organicann in Santa Rosa, CA). I'm in a new house and this is my first attempt to grow at my new location. I'm disappointed and had to scrap and throw away my first attempt. I'm trying again but I feel kinda stupid at the moment since I've never really had any problems in the past, thankfully, but at the same time I'm a little naive when it comes to identifying and overcoming them. I don't want this to be a waste too, I cannot afford to be without my own medicine, but the same thing is happening again so I'm freaking out and seeking advice from knowledgeable folks, like you!

The clones don't seem to appreciate my watering them. Every time I do, the problem simply get's worse. I've attached some pics below showing the progression of the issues I'm encountering. If you could please take a look for me, I'd appreciate it immensely. Trying not to kill these ones too. The water is straight tap water, nothing added but PH Down (to 7.0).

Ace of Spades after 1st water. Watered with straight tap water, no nutes, PH'd to 7.0. This is a clone purchased from Organicann (Santa Rosa, CA). It took 3 days for its small clone sized pot to dry out once it was in my possession. They are in soil. I watered and the resulting symptoms appeared shortly after the watering, starting at the leaf tip and slowing progressing downward. It begins with an odd darkening of the leave (not always at the tip area, as shown in the GDP example picture), and progresses to dry dead matter that can be crumbled easily if touched. The picture is taken nearly 24 hours after watering showing the now dead area.

GDP after 1st water. Watered with straight tap water, no nutes, PH'd to 7.0. This is a clone purchased from Organicann (Santa Rosa, CA). Unlike the Ace of Spades, these were in grodon cubes. It took 4 days for them to dry out once in my possession. I watered and the resulting symptoms appeared shortly after the watering. This did not begin at the tip like the Ace of Spades but rather in the middle of the leaf. It shows the beginning of the odd darkening forming. The picture is taken 30 minutes after watering showing the very first stage of its reaction to the water.

Blueberry-Northern Lights after 2nd watering. I obtained these a week prior to the Ace of Spades so they have had an additional watering after their pots became dry again. The pots were completely dry from top to bottom and became light as a feather before watering. Shows advanced stages of the leaves which are now half dead and dry with curling. There is yellowing of the plant in general now and it looks like a real sorry mofo in contrast to the beautiful vibrant clone I took home with me from Organicann. They are becoming dry again and will need another (third) watering very soon.

- Sierra

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=43052

 

[Midnight Tokar]

Are you bubbling your tap water to let the chlorine evaporate? I usually don't use my tap for at least 24 hours so the chlorine has a chance to flash off.

I would get a gallon jug of RO water from the market and try it.

 

[Propagate]

you do have a serious issue going on. I know how it is to waste money on extras when we can have such an inexpensive grow process.
when was last PH meter calibration?
soil brand? coco? or other?
nutrients and application amount/fgrequency?
container size?
run off ph is 7? seems high.
last flush was when?
more details are the only way to combat difficiency.

 

[Propagate]

As a new grower, when you haven't reached successful harvest by accident or luck, it's hard to know where to take the first step with overcoming the issues that led you to that less than wanted harvest. But, you came to the right place for answers.

 

[Kcar]

Do you have a ppm/ec meter? What is the starting PH of your water?
There is a form you can fill out to help us with more info. It's in one of the stickys.
Just copy and paste it into a reply in this thread and fill it out.
It's here https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

 

[OrganicBuds]

First off, don't let your plant dry all the way out. You should keep an even moisture level as much as possible. Super watering and then letting the plants dry out will cause nutrient uptake problems all by itself.

Second, what is your tap water like? If you are in a city in Cali, then you most likely have chloromine, not chlorine. Chloromine can not be bubbled off, only filtered out with high grade carbon or a reverse osmosis watering purifier. That could be part of the problem.....Also, what ppm comes out of your tap? If it is anything above 50 I would use a filtering system.

With your limited description of your entire grow, those are my best two suggestions. I wish you luck.

 

[joe guy]

7.0 is way to high (lol)

7.0 is way to high (lol)

Like I said 7.0 is crazy high u want them in lowish 6
6.5 to have all nutes available in the soil.
That being said I'd say try adding 5.5 to 5.3 nutes or RO h20
I'd never advise using str8 tap from anywhere in Cali.
But u may be able to save them if u adjust you RUN OFF to 6.5
This way all nutes are available if any .
My next question is how big of a pot are u using if its a small Dixie then a wek would use up damn near everything init and it needs food
But I'm startin to ramble here so ill check back latr to see if uve answer any other ? Good luck figurin out what the issues are him I'd say its a different ones not just a single issue

 

[sierra_mika]

Thanks for your feedback, here's the questionnaire.

Thanks for your feedback, here's the questionnaire.

How long has this problem been going on?

Experiencing this for the first time, in new house, growing here for the first time. Purchased the clones in two batches, about a week apart.

What STRAIN are you growing?

Ace of Spades, GDP, Blueberry-Northernlights

What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)

I typically seed, but these are clones I purchased.

What is the age of your plants?

Rooted clones about 10 days in my possession. They have not been transplanted yet.

How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?

The Ace and Blueberry are in soil. The GDP is in grodon cubes. I intended to transplant them all in soil, but have not yet since the impact of my water.


Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before?

Yes, nothing at all has changed since I purchased them, aside from watering.

How Tall are the plants?

Most are approx. 5 to 7 inches... there are 2 which are 3 inches. There are 17 plants total. All of which are experiencing the same issues in the pictures. They have gotten worse since the time I posted yesterday!

What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?

Veg... Intended to veg them for two weeks before the flip.

What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)

No techniques have been introduced yet, they still reside in their small pots from the dispensary.

What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)

The Aces of Spades are in a very small 2"x2" square pot (tiny). The Blueberry are in small round coco pots (3" maybe). The DGP are in grodon cubes (3" also maybe). I intend to transplant them all in soil using 3 gallon containers.

What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)

Still in their pots from the dispensary, but intend to use my own soil, which is primarily compost from my chickens (flock in my pasture).

What brand Nutrient's are you using?
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
How often are you feeding?

There has been no feeding since I obtained them. I watered with straight tap only, used immediately, didn't let sit, and PH'd to 7.0.

If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)

Does not apply...

What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?

The TDS of the tap is reading 124.

What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?

I only gave a little dixie cup (or two) of water to each clone, so there was very little run off to test. The GDP's grodon soaked up everything, but will see how much puddles in the bottom of their tray next time to see if there is enough to test the run off.

How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS?

I tested before each watering. The PH from my tap runs between 8-9. I used PH down from General Hydro to lower it to 7.0 before I watered them. Joe-Guy said this was terribly high in his feedback, so may have contributed to the issue. I'm typically a Hydro girl, but wanted to keep these in soil and use my compost I've been making over the last season. I thought soil should ideally be in the 7.0 range, so my mistake evidently. When in hydro, I always tried to maintain about 5.8. I'm wanting to make the move to organics.

What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?

I have two PH pens (Hanna HI 98127). Which I calibrated using General Hydroponics calibration solution about 15 min before watering.

How often are you watering?

It took 3 to 5 days for each to dry out. I waited until they were completely dry without showing signs of wilting. Since they are clones from the dispensary, I wanted them to get as dry as possible. I've been burned with root aphids in the past this particular dispensary. Again, probably just a naive thing of mine, but in the past I've done this successfully to identify the clones which were infected. Once the soil was void of moisture, the little f'ers tend to fall out of the bottom of the pot looking for another host. They only seem to do this when dry, otherwise they are content with the pot they are in. OrganicBuds said this was a problem and could lead to nutrient issues. That makes perfect sense, but wanted to address why I let them dry out completely, whether right or wrong.

When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?

Have not fed yet since I've brought them home. The GDP I only had for 3 days before I watered it and didn't think any of these would require a feeding within the first week.

What size bulb are you using?

1000 HPS. The clones are currently about 7 feet away from the light, pretty darn far away, since they acclimating to the sun going super nova on them compared to their dispensary lighting.

How old is your bulbs?

Just purchased 15 days ago.

What is the distance to the canopy?

Approx 7 feet at present, I move them slightly closer each day.

What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)

I do not have a hydrometer unfortunately. I just moved back to CA, I was in Las Vegas the last few years growing out there with almost negative humidity in the desert, lol. I do not know what it is here though... I'm sorry.

What is the canopy temperature?

They are too far away from the light to have any heat from it, but the room in general ranges from 68 degrees in the evenings to approx 79 in the day.

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)

The room is pretty stable at 68 at night.

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?

Since these are still acclimating and have not been transplanted yet, none of the environmentals in the room have been turned on yet, not even a simple fan into the plants even.

Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?

Went from saturated when purchased to completely dry before I watered again. Took 3 days for the Ace and 4 days for the GDP to dry out. I did not expect to have a deficiency issue within the first few days after obtaining them. The symptoms appeared quickly after the watering, within 30 minutes, which leads me to believe it is more so the water which is the culprit.

Is your water HARD or SOFT?

I believe water in Petaluma is hard.

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?

Simple tap... but will be trying RO water from the vending machines outside the supermarket next watering.

If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen)

124 from tap

If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?(Only if you have a tds pen)

Does not apply...

Are you using water from a water softener?

No.

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?

No.

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?

No.

Are plant's infected with pest's?

Showing no signs of any pest problems that I can determine.



Thanks again!! - Sierra

 

[OrganicBuds]

Here is another thing I would try.....Transplant one into a healthy soil mix and see what happens. Add extra earth worm castings at a rate of 3 parts soil to one part EWC. This will ensure that your new soil has nutes, and the extra humus from the EWC will help buffer any PH issues. You are correct in lowering the ph down to 6.0 - 6.4.

Once again, if you are going to be an organic farmer, then you need quality water. I know its expensive, but a solid water source is as important as your raw materials in organic growing. You can add all the microbeasties you want to your soil, but clorine/chloromine will be like a nuke killing all those hard to establish microbes.

Check out the organic section if you are headed in that direction. Also, a fantastic book for indoor organic growing is....... True Living Organics by The Rev. Only about 20 bucks and will put you in the right direction and answer a lot of your questions. Good luck.

 

[OrganicBuds]

No reply? I guess your welcome.

 

[sierra_mika]

Thanks so much!

Thanks so much!

Turns out that while I do in fact have city water, it's hooked into a well and pump system that feeds into the house. Whatever deposits are building up in the well were causing these terrible issues with the plants. At the suggestion of OrganicBuds, I transplanted all of the clones that same day, into 3 gallon buckets using a combination of local soil, worm castings, perlite & my chicken bedding I've been composting since the end of last summer. I also switched to only RO water from a vending machine at my local market. The clones were in bad shape initially due to the water issue as you could see from the first posting. A few didn't make it. The others took about two weeks to fully recover before they started showing some new growth and vigor. I'm a little behind schedule but they are now in their first week of flower. Thanks for everyone's input, it was all much appreciated. I'll follow up again when I can... thanks again!

-Sierra

 

[sierra_mika]

Follow Up - Week 2

Follow Up - Week 2

2nd Week into flower now... Things are still going OK after the water issue was resolved. Small buds are just beginning to form and take shape now. Week 3 I will begin to add PBP bloom and LK to the watering schedule going forward. Also, I'm growing increasingly tired of having to use the RO vending water, it's been a pain to get out and get it when I need to.... will probably get an RO filter soon... any suggestions?

- Sierra

 

[Hydro-Soil]

will probably get an RO filter soon... any suggestions?

Shaping up really nice in there.

I'd suggest an R/O machine with pre-filters before the R/O membrane and a U/V light on the output side.

You moved from Vegas to Cali... and ran into really crappy water. Me too! Eventually moved out here to Colorado... very nice. Lots of dead wells around here though and the tap water sucks, a good R/O system is valuable everywhere. One that recirculates the 'waste' water back through the membrane will save a lot of water.

Stay Safe!

 

[greenmatter]

from what i have read an RO filter is useless against chloramine ....... or better said it is not the RO membrane that takes out the chloramine it is the charcoal pre filter that does

charcoal pre filters are NOT standard equipment on some RO systems.

if anyone has a link to something that says the RO membrane stops chloramine i would like to see it

 

[Hydro-Soil]

from what i have read an RO filter is useless against chloramine .......

Yeah... forgot that part. Have your local water tested by the company you're buying the R/O unit from. They should be able to recommend a pre-filter that will remove a lot of stuff before the R/O membrane... increasing it's life span.

Stay Safe!

 

[joe guy]

Its a new product, well fairly new anyway
I believe it's 16 bucks for this bottle.
But applacition rate is nice 5 to 10 ml per 40 gallons of tap or roh2o
I still use RO tho but add this to get rid of any chlormines,
So it maybe a cheaper alternitive to a pre filter...
If the pic is too small the company is green gro...
I have used tap for a few waterings with no ill effect and no bubbling anything just a fish tank powe head to mix cause I'm super lazy...

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Nah... pre-filter is cheaper. Probably only 1 $20 replacement filter a year... how long would that bottle last?

Stay Safe!

 

[joe guy]

Says 8oz will treat 2,000 gallons
And I guess u could even pass the RO filter and go
Str8 tap, says elemniates everything bad..

 

[joe guy]

Maybe 20 dollar replacement filters but I'm sure it's a nice expensive up front cost for the filter housing... But I could be wrong I've never looked into one

 

[sierra_mika]

3rd Week Flower

3rd Week Flower

Things are still going ok. 3rd week into flower here and colas are just starting to take shape now. At this point, and from here on out, I get very excited every time I visit the room, giddy even. I love the entire grow cycle, but at this stage, each day becomes more fascinating

Still considering several RO units, but the ones I am wanting are a little more expensive than I'd like at present. Will probably take action next payroll. I bought a bottle of the water conditioner Joe Guy suggested as a back up in case of emergency. It was very inexpensive, I ordered it just in case, though after reading it's description it's probably the same stuff I add to my aquarium tank... so I may have had a similar product all along...

Quick question while on water topic... I'm dumping a few gallons of water from my dehumidifier unit every other day or so. I've been just dumping it down the sink without a second thought, which is pretty lame now that I acknowledged how much water from the unit I'm wasting. Silly of me to do so I'm sure and wondering if this could be used in an emergency watering or watering other household plants, other uses in the grow room, etc?

-Sierra