Root Rot

[Iffy]

Hi Folks,
Suffering badly from galloping Root Rot & looking for advice.
Facing the fact that I'm gonna have to lift each plant (difficult now they're grown and embedded in the SCROG net) to trim away the brown stuff & dip in a Peroxide solution.
Q: What % of bleach in solution is best. I've been told the average store bought bleach is roughly 3% and to use 1 part bleach to 2 parts water?
Q: Can an ongoing treatment with H202 (liquid oxygen) do the same job (strip away the brown stuff) so I don't have to lift each plant?
Q: See below, PH UP?? This was posted as treatment for PM but will it work with Root Rot?

(Quote) from Schwagg
pH-Up
Fungi require an acidic environment to grow and die in alkaline environments. Changing the leaf surface environment from acidic to alkaline clears up the infection. An alkaline solution with a pH of 8 will make the environment inhospitable for the fungus and will stop its growth. This is one of the simplest means of controlling the fungus. It can be used on critically infected plants.

Stay safe

 

[medicalmj]

I too have battled root rot and have had some success. If caught early enough you can get a good harvest. What worked for me was an H2O2 soak followed by a flush followed by inoculation of beneficial microbes (I used tea that I made, but one of the many complete powder types of beneficial work great like GH subcultre B & M. I would not recommend relying on store bought tea as most bennies will be dead by the time you get it back).

I would only use food grade 35% H2O2 that has been stored properly (refridg). I have pushed the limits on this and you will burn your roots (stunt but not kill the plant) when you get to around 1 oz/gal (6 teaspoons/gal). I have found 1/2 teaspoon per gallon to be the lower limit for efficacy, and not strong enough for most. I suggest 1 to 2 teaspoons per gallon of 35% H2O2. With 1 tsp being a great starting point for most applications. The H2O2 will be oxidized pretty quickly so an hour or two soak will be good.

If those containers can be filled up with solution than there is no need to lift the lides/plants. Just drain existing and refill w h2o2 solution. Let soak and drain. Then flush. Then add 1/4 strenght nutes and rapid start or H&G roots excel along w beneficials for first res fill, then back to full strenght nutes. I will occasionally add more bennies and always add rapid start to res.

Never did bleach...

 

[Iffy]

Hi Medicalmj,
Thanks for that. I've got them flushing on a fairly strong H2o2 solution. Gonna do this for two days adding just a touch of dishsoap as a wetting agent & topping up the H2o2 tomorrow. I'm hoping as you say, it should strip the brown shit from the roots and give me a clean 'palette'. Then flush with water, clean down & refill.
I've got some Guard 'n' Aid - Rot Stop coming tomorrow, which is similar to Great White for bennies & fungus. I'm going to try using the Rot Stop & Voodoo Juice together to 'outcompete' the Botrytis. There are two distinct schools of thought here, one that says you should continue with the H2o2 treatment to the harvest, to keep it away. The other is the way I'm choosing, using Bennies to fight the cause. Hope I choose the right path as I need this grow!

Also as you suggest 20 - 25% Nutes. Got some Revive that can go in about then too. From all the threads I've read, on many different sites, the consensus is what you've outlined. Mostly, it's about Cleanliness, Spotting the signs early but most of all taking action!
Stay safe

 

[medicalmj]

... Hope I choose the right path as I need this grow!:

After running h2o2 to finish when I first got the funk, I switched over to the path you've chosen and it works for me. Hope it works as well for you. But I also finished that first one out nicely with constant h2o2 til the end. If your leaves aren't exhibiting chlorosis (iron/mag looking defs) then you should be able to push on to a nice harvest.

 

[Iffy]

Hi Medicalmj,
Just the info I needed, thanks for sharing that.
I have three plants showing distress/chlorosis that may, or may not recover. The rest of the girls look fine, one or two leaves yellowing & curling but I think they should survive the treatment and grow on. They are the biggest specimens in the garden though so have been able to withstand the rot better. I removed two of the girls today as they were clearly past saving & just adding to the problem. (violins playing quietly).
I'm gonna give the Bennies a go and probably invest in some Great White to throw in the mix. I've heard so many good reports about it, regardless of the high cost I'm sorely tempted.
Thanks again for the input.
Stay safe

 

[ogatec2]

gotta think of it as an enviromental problem..not something u can really quick fix.. i find once you have root rot its best to either start over or finish the crop with the expectation of lowered yields and such.

once you start bleaching and peroxiding you will just stress the roots more causing more rot. what you are dealing with is dead roots..so no amount of fixing will make them alive again unless you are dr Frankenstein or something!

so look for the solution..too high temps? not enough oxygen in the roots? somthing in the environment is off..

 

[medicalmj]

...so look for the solution..too high temps? not enough oxygen in the roots? somthing in the environment is off..

Yeah if you haven't, find the cause...

 

[Iffy]

gotta think of it as an enviromental problem..not something u can really quick fix.. i find once you have root rot its best to either start over or finish the crop with the expectation of lowered yields and such.

once you start bleaching and peroxiding you will just stress the roots more causing more rot. what you are dealing with is dead roots..so no amount of fixing will make them alive again unless you are dr Frankenstein or something!

so look for the solution..too high temps? not enough oxygen in the roots? somthing in the environment is off..

Yeah, Ogatec2, thanks for the heads up.
I realised what the problem/s were as soon as I realised what was going on. Clearly by then it was and had been systematic for some time before there were visible signs of the infestation.
The NFT table I've got is a bit flimsyer than I'd like and it had a slight bow in it from the weight of the plants, which obviously grew incrementaly and I failed to spot it. I've raised the top of the table to increase the nutrient flow back to res for this grow but i will support it on two beams for the next grow. Heat was also an issue as the fans I had bringing in cool air weren't quite big enough but in warm weather, they're drawing warm air anyway. So the new A/C unit seems to be controlling things nicely, with a little fan heater for the nights (lights off).
I think I need to consider a water chiller before this Summer, as that could pose another problem area.
Lost another plant today, total of four blanks in my table now - sob!
Small signs of 'freshening' if that means any fuckin thing. Wishfull bloody thinking more like.
More to come in the war against the dreaded Root Rot!
Stay safe

 

[maxima32]

Lost four trees last week . Monsters in a uc system ! Loosing sleep over this root rot shite. May be able to recoup something from the five week flower bud. The worst part is the plants looked fine and I probably could of pushed them threw four more weeks. The only issue was burnt leaf tip. Everything else was perfect beside the rapid ph drop daily. The roots were light brown but no smell, slime, or dark color. Think I am going back to soil !

 

[BigPete]

Check out "Dutch Master's Zone" I've recently got myself some and only just started using it so I cant give you my personal results. I read a lot of positive stories about DM zone curing the dreaded rot.

 

[Iffy]

Lost four trees last week . Monsters in a uc system ! Loosing sleep over this root rot shite. May be able to recoup something from the five week flower bud. The worst part is the plants looked fine and I probably could of pushed them threw four more weeks. The only issue was burnt leaf tip. Everything else was perfect beside the rapid ph drop daily. The roots were light brown but no smell, slime, or dark color. Think I am going back to soil !

Ah Maxima32, I feel for ya dude.
I am exactly where you are & I've said exactly the same fuckin thing about a hundred times a day since I discovered the damn stuff - 'fuck this I'm going back to soil!!
Mine looked fine too, the odd curling & yellowing leaf here and there. By the time you find out what's going on - its systemic!
Third day in the H2o2 treatment schedule. Tomorrow is clean down & refill the res with nutes & bennies.
Only time will tell.
Hope you sort yours out man, soon.

 

[Granger2]

The H2O2 treatment outlined by Medicalmj is good advice. I've had success using 2 Tbl/gal of 3% for 3 waterings, followed by re-inoculating with beneficials. If you need to feed during the 3 waterings, you can w/peroxide. I would not use Chlorine Bleach. It's hard to get rid of and will continue to kill off your beneficials for [?] some time. The beauty of peroxide is that it disinfects, then quickly degrades to water and oxygen. I suggest using also an enzyme product like Hygrozyme, and a good root stimulator. Good luck. -granger

 

[TheArchitect]

Overkill, is underrated.

I'd put money on the fact your DO levels are too low.

Get a bigger pump so youre recirculating faster, or get more air stones. Preferably a bigger water pump.


Btw, Ive never run a chiller, my res temps match my canopy temps, and I've never lost a plant to rot. Beneficial bacteria colonized biofilter does wonders.

Any system details, what nutrients, ro or tap water?

 

[Iffy]

Hi TheArchitect,
I run NFT in Hydroton in 6.5l pots, continuous feed via drippers & recirc to a 100L res.
2 x Airstones
1x 500l/n Maxijet running loose in the res for movement.
1 x 1000 l/h Maxijet running the feeder lines.
Tap water ceramic & charcoal filtered.
Plant Magic A&B Bloom
Plant Magic Bloom Boost
Voodoo Juice
Bud Candy
Keep It Clean
Res temps are 67-69f
I'm pretty sure I've sorted the problems that allowed the infestation. Its dealing with it now and my concerns about getting rid of it completely for the next grow. Obviously new pebbles & a major clean down.
However, I do think I'll spot it a bit earlier next time & be more prepared for it.
Thanks for the support and great knowledge fellas.
Stay safe

 

[TheArchitect]

So if I'm too understand correctly, you top feed 6.5l containers filled with hydroton?

How many drippers per? And, how many plants?

I'm leaning towards undersized pumps, leading to low dissolved o2 and depending on the setup, if you only have one dripper per plant, with a big rootball you might be getting stagnant spots.

1000lph is only like 250gph,(sorry I'm a yank) which I know is a weak ass pump. But, I don't know how many plant sites/drippers your feeding though.

Only reason Im saying anything is because unless your water source is heavily infested with the rot "spores" you shouldn't get it ever. And, most times it's a flaw in equipment sizing or you let the rootball get too big for the container, so it's really simple to fix the root cause(pun intended lol).

Take care

 

[medicalmj]

Hi TheArchitect,
I run NFT in Hydroton in 6.5l pots, continuous feed via drippers & recirc to a 100L res.
2 x Airstones
1x 500l/n Maxijet running loose in the res for movement.
1 x 1000 l/h Maxijet running the feeder lines.
Tap water ceramic & charcoal filtered.
Plant Magic A&B Bloom
Plant Magic Bloom Boost
Voodoo Juice
Bud Candy
Keep It Clean
Res temps are 67-69f
I'm pretty sure I've sorted the problems that allowed the infestation. Its dealing with it now and my concerns about getting rid of it completely for the next grow. Obviously new pebbles & a major clean down.
However, I do think I'll spot it a bit earlier next time & be more prepared for it.
Thanks for the support and great knowledge fellas.
Stay safe

Hey that info is good to have. I've tried many things and one was something similar, and I ended up throwing them into a variety of Sunshine #4 and coco, mostly 5 gal conatiners. It took a good 2 weeks to rebound, then i vegged for two more, then flowered. Yes they were big (only had 4). I blamed on the fact they became root bound in container (used 2 gal). I would top feed only, then put into nft. The roots got swirled and bound in the container along w stagnent areas. If i did nft again it would be in small net pots. Actually, if do pure hydro again it would most likely be an under current with insane gph flow. Like The Arch stated, good flow is key.

 

[maxima32]

Funny , I was running bubble buckets next to the uc with the same feed, same schedule and the roots are fine .Go figure? Anywho,, doing the peroxide thing in an ebb n flo . Ditched the uc n switched to gen hydro from Fox farm. Got a chiller for the res and locking down my temps. Got to say though , I kinda hate the idea of multiple plant systems especially with root problems . Kinda like being able to control each plant . Foxfarm nutes are not great to b running in a system like the uc anyway and learned that it's pretty hard keeping my res sterile with that base of nutrients . Will update on my use of 29% peroxide

 

[Iffy]

Ridomil Gold for root rot?

Ridomil Gold for root rot?

I've heard good things about Ridomil's effectiveness against the dreaded root rot. But for $140 + $50 postage from the US for one pint! I think I might try and source it elsewhere in the UK.
Anyone used it? Is it as good as its cracked up to be??

RIDOMIL GOLD SL - MEFENOXAM 45.3% 1 PINT By Syngenta
Ridomil is an agricultural fungicide labeled for vegetables, citrus, cucurbits, herbs and fruits crops.
Ridomil is labeled for Damping off (pythium) Root rot (phytophtehttps://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=41878&pictureid=1037520ra) and downy mildew. This product is the same as Subdue but twice the strength and is labeled for turf an ornamentals. This product has a "caution" label is widely used by the professional farmer and citrus grower.


For a complete label click here: http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld76Q013.pdf

 

[Iffy]

Res chiller.

Res chiller.

Funny , I was running bubble buckets next to the uc with the same feed, same schedule and the roots are fine .Go figure? Anywho,, doing the peroxide thing in an ebb n flo . Ditched the uc n switched to gen hydro from Fox farm. Got a chiller for the res and locking down my temps. Got to say though , I kinda hate the idea of multiple plant systems especially with root problems . Kinda like being able to control each plant . Foxfarm nutes are not great to b running in a system like the uc anyway and learned that it's pretty hard keeping my res sterile with that base of nutrients . Will update on my use of 29% peroxide

Hi Maxima32,
My pal was trying to sell me a res for £150. Not a bad deal for £245 new.
However, I remembered a tip from years ago on Overdrive from a chap called Nimby. He put a small fan blowing on the res and due to transpiration (I think) it cools the res. You have to top it up a little more often but the results are amazing.



This is just a shitty 4" inline but I've had to put it on a timer coz it works too well! It took my res down to 60f in an hour!
Cheap, efficient, simple to fit - no brainer!
Stay safe buddy

 

[Iffy]

Root Rot.

Root Rot.

Hi Folks.
An update to my current situation and a precautionary note;
Following the first sterilisation treatment with H2o2, I decided to try the 'Bennie' approach and spent a bomb on Great White & Rot Stop. I added these to the tank along with Voodoo Juice & Vitalink Biopac. I also sprinkled GW onto the rootball & surrounding clay pebbles, washed in by the dripper.
This treatment had no beneficial effect whatsoever. In fact the root rot came back with a vengeance & all the remaining girls look like shit. I've also posted about this in the 'dead res' threads but I thought I'd follow up here, as those suffering from the dreaded rot are more likely to come across this thread first.
If I had continued to go the 'dead res' route & continued banging the H2o2 in every day, not only would I have saved myself numerous pounds, my girls would be recovering. I think to really fight this rot I'm gonna have to use a fungicide. The real good stuff - Ridomil Gold is just too expensive as it only comes from the states. So I've ordered some Bayer Systhane Fungus Fighter 300ml Systemic Fungicide from Ebay. Hoping this will help but to be quite honest I think I'm facing total loss of this grow. Had to chop another today, so 6 left and all looking sick.
So If you are running hydro and you see your plants looking 'overwatered' & limp - check the roots. If you catch this early and treat with H2o2 and KEEP using the H2o2, you should be able to get through to harvest.
Stay safe