Closet Grow - DELUXE

[Green Devil]

I agree with negative37dbs, and that hepa filter will not filter the smell from the room. You are bypassing your carbon filter.

I would really recommend to change your configuration. Your fans will not do much more than 200 m3/h, and in the current configuration much less. One of those fans is enough to cool all three plasma lamps: Just connect the three tubes in series and blow through them. 50 m3/h is more than enough to cool a plasma lamp so 200 m3/h should do the job even with losses. Keep the ducting 150 directly from the fan to make the system as quiet as possible. Use air from outside the room and blow air also directly out of the room.

Then hang your filter direct in front of the extraction fan. The hepa filter, if that's behind you carbon filter then remove it. You should have on the intake fan to prevent stuff coming in. 200 m3/h extraction (120 - 140 effective) should be more than enough for the low heat generation from the plasma lamps, but not enough to add any HID lamp. For that I would go to 300-500 m3/h. Still the small fan would be enough for the AC leps.

Given the low amount of red in this combo I would recommend to add red double spectrum LED already in veg.

Do you have any particular LED panels in mind Whazzup?

The small fans does 240m³/h and the larger one 580m³/h at full power but I have set it to 430m³/h due to noise level and the fact that I can't bring more air in than out.

I am aware that this is still a problem when looking at the setup since 1 + 1 does not equal 2, but still 1.
Only difference is, as you mentioned earlier, the loss of pressure.

First and foremost (again) I do not have problems with the temperature (at the moment) so cooling the room is not something that I have a huge interest in (at the moment)!

Secondly, there is not enough room to connect all three LEP lamps to a fan without using bends.

Please draw a sketch if you have the time!



Maybe it would be possible to add a HPS lamp if I can connect the powerful intake fan to a cooltube and then directly out of the room!

 

[whazzup]

and of course you need an good active or passive intake somewhere.

Always wise to have some ducting between filter and fan. Use sonodec or other insulated ducting and be sure to stretch it out to prevent pressure drop, use as few bends and corners as possible.

The cooltube system doesn't need much and works on over-pressure, so leaks in your ducting would not result in smell. Reflective ducting works well, and though you will have a huge pressure drop your fan will cool the tubes enough.

This way you keep your air flows separate and your extraction most effective.

 

[Green Devil]

Thank you for the sketch!
I will consider changing.
Does this mean I have to drill another hole to the kitchen from my closet?

Because I'd rather not.
But if that would be most effective, so be it.

Can add that I will be going with the Lucas Formula.

Also put a vaportek odor disc above the intake fan.
Might put the OnaGel there as well, or in front of a wall fan.

 

[whazzup]

yes and don't forget your intake! If you use a passive intake it needs to have about 5x the surface of your extraction flange size surface. The more efficient it is, the less noise it will make as you can regulate your fans down with a fan controller.

 

[Green Devil]

yes and don't forget your intake! If you use a passive intake it needs to have about 5x the surface of your extraction flange size surface. The more efficient it is, the less noise it will make as you can regulate your fans down with a fan controller.

I do not have a passive intake, I've connected the larger fan (580m³/h) to the intake hole - running at 430m³/h.

Do you have any special fan controller in mind?
There are so many..

Thanks for the advice!

 

[whazzup]

I would have that as extraction actually, and a smaller fan as intake. The intake will hardly have any pressure drop, the extraction will (carbon filter). You can use the dust shroud on the input fan. Basically you want under-pressure in your room, so less intake than exhaust. As it is difficult to regulate input and extraction fan equally it is wise to have part of your intake passive through a labyrinth.

If you want a quiet fan regulation go for the voltage controllers, not the triac controllers as they can cause lots of hum in your fans.

 

[Green Devil]

I would have that as extraction actually, and a smaller fan as intake. The intake will hardly have any pressure drop, the extraction will (carbon filter). You can use the dust shroud on the input fan. Basically you want under-pressure in your room, so less intake than exhaust. As it is difficult to regulate input and extraction fan equally it is wise to have part of your intake passive through a labyrinth.

If you want a quiet fan regulation go for the voltage controllers, not the triac controllers as they can cause lots of hum in your fans.

The air capacity of the carbon filter is 200 m3/hr, feels like I would be "wasting" the big one connecting it to the carbon filter and the LEP lamps definitely dont need that much cooling.

I do want under pressure, but this is something a fan controller should be able to adjust - wouldn't you agree?

I will redesign the ventilation first thing in the morning!

Also, the seeds just cracked!

 

[whazzup]

it's always a good idea to have a bit of overcapacity, also with your filter which is really small. You see now why hps would never work in your setup. Choose a filter with the same flange size as your fan.

 

[Green Devil]

it's always a good idea to have a bit of overcapacity, also with your filter which is really small. You see now why hps would never work in your setup. Choose a filter with the same flange size as your fan.

A HPS would never work in this setup.
But I believe that LEP + LED should do the job, got really curious about Heliospectra's new LED panel.

Might buy two Heliospectra C4A panels when they hit the market.

Both the fan and the carbon filter is at 100mm in diameter.
Everything except the LEP lamps and the larger fan are at 100mm.

According to an iPhone app the decibel level inside the closet is about 65 and about 45 when standing outside with the door closed.

Don't know how accurate the app is though!

 

[whazzup]

580m³/h at 100mm gives you an air speed of 20 m/s, which makes an awful lot of noise. Even 420 m3/h is still almost 15m/s. HVAC standards ask for maximum of 7m/s for a system to be quiet. It's the air flow that makes most of the noise in your system, and of course the high speed high pressure fans. For 100 mm the airflow is max 200 m3/h to be reasonably quiet.

The secret of a quiet ventilation system is a large diameter, low air speed (and to stay below the 7m/s). Here is a reference for you with the maximum air flow per diameter to get to 7m/s:

diameter 100 mm
m3/h 198
speed m/s 7,00

diameter 160 mm
m3/h 510
speed m/s 7,00

diameter 200 mm
m3/h 800
speed m/s 7,00

diameter 250 mm
m3/h 1250
speed m/s 7,00

diameter 315 mm
m3/h 1990
speed m/s 7,00

Osram has a great series of (red) LEDs. As for LED fixtures: There are so many and I don't have enough experience with them myself to give you any good advice about that.

 

[negative37dBA]

Good call on the oversizing of ventilation. It is always better to dial own to what you need not up. When I converted from 4" to 6" the difference was amazing.

 

[Green Devil]

580m³/h at 100mm gives you an air speed of 20 m/s, which makes an awful lot of noise. Even 420 m3/h is still almost 15m/s. HVAC standards ask for maximum of 7m/s for a system to be quiet. It's the air flow that makes most of the noise in your system, and of course the high speed high pressure fans. For 100 mm the airflow is max 200 m3/h to be reasonably quiet.

The secret of a quiet ventilation system is a large diameter, low air speed (and to stay below the 7m/s). Here is a reference for you with the maximum air flow per diameter to get to 7m/s:

diameter 100 mm
m3/h 198
speed m/s 7,00

diameter 160 mm
m3/h 510
speed m/s 7,00

diameter 200 mm
m3/h 800
speed m/s 7,00

diameter 250 mm
m3/h 1250
speed m/s 7,00

diameter 315 mm
m3/h 1990
speed m/s 7,00

Osram has a great series of (red) LEDs. As for LED fixtures: There are so many and I don't have enough experience with them myself to give you any good advice about that.

All the 100mm fans are connected to 100mm tubes.
The larger one, at 150mm, is only connected to a HEPA filter basically.

I realized that I can't have the fans outside the closet, so all three fans have to be inside.
And that means that I'll have to buy another carbon filter and connect to the fan that will be cooling the LEP lamps.

What I can say is that you are not even able to hear the small fans when the bigger one is on.

And when I close the door to the closet as well as the door to my bedroom I can't hear any of the three fans at all.

Attaching two pics from my other grow as well - just to entertain!

 

[whazzup]

I realized that I can't have the fans outside the closet, so all three fans have to be inside.
And that means that I'll have to buy another carbon filter and connect to the fan that will be cooling the LEP lamps.

That is not true. Your air cooled plasmas can be in a closed system as in the diagram I gave you. Fresh air in, fresh air out.

and it's no use pushing more in than you can extract, what will cause over-pressure and will result in smell.

 

[Green Devil]

That is not true. Your air cooled plasmas can be in a closed system as in the diagram I gave you. Fresh air in, fresh air out.

and it's no use pushing more in than you can extract, what will cause over-pressure and will result in smell.

I think you misunderstood me.
My problem is that I cannot have a fan outside the closet.

And so, the fan that will be cooling the LEP lamps will use smelly-air to cool them down unless I attach a carbon filter to it first.

I would not be pushing in more air then the amount of air that I can extract if I make another hole.
Outtake: 240m3/h x 2 (480m3/h extraction)
Intake: 430m3/h

I already got fresh air in, but I can never get fresh air out unless I use carbon filters (or another similar filter) or bring air from outside the closet which, in my case, is not an option.

 

[whazzup]

yes that's an option too. It just costs you another carbon filter instead of another hole . Then again, for the large fan to be used as an extraction fan you would need a larger filter too.

many way to Rome.

 

[Green Devil]

yes that's an option too. It just costs you another carbon filter instead of another hole . Then again, for the large fan to be used as an extraction fan you would need a larger filter too.

many way to Rome.

Yes there are many ways to Rome!
By the way, is there any known trouble with the 41,02 bulb?
The light turns itself off after about 12-18h.

Then I have to disconnect the plug, and then wait a few minutes before connecting it again.

 

[whazzup]

My guess: The 41.02 does not get enough cooling in your current configuration. At its end it gets pressure from the air gone through the filter and the right 41.01, but most of that air will probably be sucked further in the system by the next fan. If you don't cool it or don't cool it enough there is a temperature safety that will switch it off. Once it is cooled down a few degrees it can switch on again. Switching off and restarting after reset I haven't encountered yet (well, when being tilted too much but that isn't the case here ).

that's my best guestimate at the moment, check the air going through. You don't need much but you need some, 50 m3/h is more than enough. I don't see much more than 10-20 m3/h going through there though in this configuration.

 

[BJSensei]

so you actrually mean that non of these lamps would work proparly if there was no cooling at all? e.i. if i but one lamp and turn the light on it will automatically shut it self of do to the heat problems ?

 

[whazzup]

correct. Our convection cooled unit has large cooling fins to dissipate the heat without becoming hot. Putting all warm and hot components in a tube you can not dissipate that heat if there is no air cooling, hence the name: "Air Cooled" . You don't need much at all, but you will need some.

 

[Green Devil]

correct. Our convection cooled unit has large cooling fins to dissipate the heat without becoming hot. Putting all warm and hot components in a tube you can not dissipate that heat if there is no air cooling, hence the name: "Air Cooled" . You don't need much at all, but you will need some.

You should probably mention that on the box! (It might have been in the papers that I didn't read)
I think it is good though!

All the seeds have sprouted but the Blueberry Skunk and Black Widow is still covered by the seed coat..
I've spitted a few times on them to see if they will come of now or break down.
Otherwise I might have to do a minor "surgery"

Would be ashame if they didn't make it out of the seed coat.

Second hole is now finished.
Problem is, I don't have 152mm Sono tube yet, so the lights are off until I can solve this cooling issue (not that I want to have the lights of, but they refuse to stay on).