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Mineral mix

Scrappy4

senior member
Veteran
Is this how we want to define minerals?
Or do you want elements?
Or am I just confusing? Scrappy



What is a mineral? These are the characteristics of minerals followed by a brief explanation of each characteristic.

A mineral:

Is naturally occurring
Is a solid
Is inorganic (mostly)
Has a fixed chemical formula
Has an orderly crystalline structure
Let’s look at these one at a time.
Naturally Occurring
To be considered a mineral it must have been formed by natural geologic processes. Laboratory created gems (synthetic diamonds, rubies, etc.) don’t count.

A Solid
By definition, minerals are solid within the normal temperature ranges of the earth’s surface.

Inorganic
Generally, a mineral is a naturally occurring solid with a crystalline structure.

This is where it gets a little tricky.

Halite or table salt is a mineral. Sugar is a crystalline solid but comes from plants, sugar cane or sugar beets. This classifies it as an organic compound and so is not a mineral. Coal on the other hand also comes from plants (organic) and is generally considered a mineral.

There are also marine animals that make their shells from calcite (calcium carbonate). Calcite is a mineral but since it is secreted by animals to form shells it is inorganic. Geologists generally consider this inorganic calcite a mineral.

What is a mineral? It has a fixed chemical formula
Each mineral has a particular chemical make up. While most minerals are compounds of two or more elements, some minerals are made up of a single element. Gold, silver and copper are called native elements and occur in nature in relatively pure form.

The vast majority of minerals are compounds or mixtures of elements. These mixtures are consistent. For halite, the chemical formula is NaCl or sodium chloride. Each sodium atom is combined with one chlorine atom. The formula for Quartz is SiO2, silicon oxide. For every atom of silicone, there are two atoms of oxygen.

There are about 4000 known minerals on earth. Each one is a unique substance with its own chemical formula. Most of these are very rare.

That narrows down the field quite a bit.

There are only eight groups of minerals that are common. They are called rock-forming minerals. They are:

Native elements
Sulfides
Oxides
nitrates
phosphates
sulfates
Halides
Silicates
What is a mineral? It Has an orderly crystalline structure
Minerals have an orderly crystalline structure. This means that the atoms or ions that make up a mineral are arranged in an orderly and repetitive manner.





What is a mineral? See examples here.

Rocks-Minerals Home | Earth's Interior | What Is A Rock? | Igneous Rocks Metamorphic Rocks | Sedimentary Rocks | The Rock Cycle
What Is A Mineral? | Mineral Identification | Mineral Gallery | Rock Gallery Lesson Plans | Crossword Puzzels | Birthstones | Rock Links |
 

ghostmade

Active member
Veteran
im also curious about this also.i think he mean like a liming mix(lime/oyster) ya dig good post though there scrappy:)
 

Scrappy4

senior member
Veteran
im also curious about this also.i think he mean like a liming mix(lime/oyster) ya dig good post though there scrappy:)

Exactly, but I am learning to rethink this thinking ( props to Cootz) and instead I look at the over all elements. The one I mostly look at is calcium. I like using it in many different forms. But if I am only looking at lime mixes I'm not seeing the whole picture. Make sense? Scrappy
 

portpunk

New member
I have a bunch of containers of different "minerals" (oyster shell flour, azomite, gypsum,etc.) Would like to combine them to a "mix" in one container to reduce clutter. Need help with proportions
 

Scrappy4

senior member
Veteran
I have a bunch of containers of different "minerals" (oyster shell flour, azomite, gypsum,etc.) Would like to combine them to a "mix" in one container to reduce clutter. Need help with proportions

An equal mix of each would work. You get the benefits of dolo lime with calcium and diversity of more compounds, like sulfur in gypsum. And theres plenty of magnesium in oyster shells to keep the wolves away. As a rock dust azomite works well and is fairly diverse all by itself. That diversity is what I was getting at and you get more when you consider elements and compounds in plant based inputs. And in practically all of it you get calcium but in diverse ways....scrappy
 
Dolomite Lime = Calcium and Magnesium
Gypsum = Calcium and Sulfer
Agricultural Lime = 32% Calcium and LOW Magnesium (like 2%)

Oyster Shells are a significant natural source of CALCIUM, not Mg. They can be seen as a lot like Ag Lime, but faster absorbing, natural, and also contains a great assortment of trace minerals, due to coming from the ocean. I'm only mentioning this because a lot of gardeners are told to "add lime" and then add way too much Magnesium unintentionally to their soils, which causes a "hardpan" or crust top and far from ideal absorption characteristics. Most soils and mixes are short on calcium so think about that too!
 

Scrappy4

senior member
Veteran
What are oyster shells made of :


Principally Calcium carbonate and Silicate; This product also contains many other ingredients including Aspartic acid; Glycine; Serine; Eicosapentaenoic acid; Decosahexemoic acid; Calendic acid; Octadecadienoic acid; Eicosatetraenoic acid; Calcium phosphate; Calcium sulfate; Glutamic acid; Taurine; Glycogen; Glutathione; Linolenic acid; Linolic acid; Glucose; Fucose; Aminohexose; Methyl pentose; Cysteine; Ferric oxide; Zinc; Manganese; Barium; Phosphorus; Calcium; Copper; Cobalt; Cadmium; Nickel; Lead; Silicon; Aluminum; Magnesium; Potassium; Chromium; Iron; Selenium; Molybdenum; Strontium; Titanium; Vitamins A, B1, B2, D, and E. Ref: 1. Liu Qi, et al. Journal of Changchun College of TCM. 1994;10(4):45. 2. Wang Shun Nian, et al. China Journal of Ocean Medicinal Products. 1991;10(1):15-16. 3. Zhao Zhong Jie, et al. China Journal of Ocean Medicinal Products. 1991;10(1):11-14. 4. Jiangsu Modern Medical College (ed). Dictionary of Chinese Materia Medica, vol. 1. Shanghai People's Press; 1977. 5. Wang Shun Nian, et al. China Journal of Ocean Medicinal Products. 1991;10(1):15-16. 6. Zhang Hou Bao, et al. China Journal of Chinese Medicine. 1990;15(12):711-713, 763. 7. Zhang Hong Yu, et al. China Journal of Ocean Medicinal Products. 1994;3(4):17-19. 8.Lu Gui Qing. Traditional Chinese Medicine Bulletin. 1985;10(7):17-18.
 

Scrappy4

senior member
Veteran
Supporting science on using azomite, from wiki :

Supporting science

Dr.Julius Hensel was the first agricultural scientist of the 19th century to discover the benefits of micronized rocks to replace all chemical and animal fertilizers. Not any rock but rocks Rich in trace minerals also known as rock dust or Stone meal; Hensel's discoveries were suppressed by the growing chemical fertilizer industry lead by justus von liebig. In his book Bread from stones Hensel provides the simple knowledge of properly creating fertile soil. Hensel lived his life fighting for the discoveries he made and many people to this day know the effects of putting proper nutrients back into soil. It took 100 years for mainstream science to accept many of Hensels discoveries, crushed limestone being one of them. Hensel's discovered that Chemical fertilizers do not treat the root of insect infestation but only harm the animals feeding off the plant (human, insects, and other animals). Hensel also discovered that insects only attack week plants and that chemical fertilizers being highly soluble are easily washed away and thus much has to be sprayed on the crops. Soil that is treated with trace minerals to feed the soilmicrobes creates the best tasting fruit and vegetables free from disease and more tolerant of drought. Soil with trace minerals at adequate levels benefit the earth in the long run because more nutrients is being supplied back to the earth than the earth is taking in the development of crops creating a win win outcome for all life on earth, in the same way earth creates fertile land. Read the .pdf "Bread from Stones" in the reference section below.

Justus von Liebig, the German chemist who became known as the “Father of Fertilizer” (1803 - 1873) made major contributions to agricultural and biological chemistry by developing the Law of the Minimum. Azomite’s primary nutritional function can be explained through Liebeg’s Law. The Law states that plant growth is determined by the scarcest “limiting” nutrient. If one of the many essential trace elements is deficient in the soil, the yield and immune function of its plant life will be affected; therefore supplementation with the totality of the required nutrients supports optimum growth.

Conventional fertilizer programs focus on macronutrients (Nitrogen (N), Phosphorus (P) and Potassium (K).[10] Dr. William A. Albrecht, former Chairman of the Department of Soils at the University of Missouri, was an outspoken author and advocate of the link between soil health and food quality; and its effect on human and animal health. He believed a fertile soil environment was dependent upon the presence of major elements and trace minerals [11] and expressed the following:





"NPK formulas, (nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium) as legislated and enforced by State Departments of Agriculture, mean malnutrition, attack by insects, bacteria and fungi, weed takeover, crop loss in dry weather, and general loss of mental acuity in the population, leading to degenerative metabolic disease and early death.[12]
 

Scrappy4

senior member
Veteran
Last cut and paste, I promise. Gypsum, from MI State U : GYPSUM

During the Paleozoic Era, beginning about 600 million years ago and ending about 230 million years ago, seawater invaded the Michigan Basin at least six times. As the seas receded and evaporated, rock and mineral deposits such as halite (rock salt), gypsum (calcium sulfate with water), liquid brines, petroleum, lime, clay, sandstone and coal were left behind. The fifth of these seas, the Mississippian, was responsible for Michigan’s gypsum deposits, which are among the richest in the world.
Gypsum is a non-metallic mineral, found in rock form. It is composed of 79.1% calcium sulphate and 20.9% water, by weight. Chemists call it Hydrous Calcium Sulphate, and as there is one molecule of calcium sulphate combined with two molecules of water. It has the chemical formula CaSO42H20. By volume this works out to nearly 50% water in the mineral structure. This water however, is perfectly dry, and is known as "water of crystalization". It could be compared with ice, which, too is water in crystaline form, but there is this an important difference; ice will melt, or change to water, when it is exposed to a to temperature above 32 F. Water of crystalization, in gypsum, does not change until it is subjected to heat above 212 F but at that temperature the water of crystalization changes form and becomes water vapor and is driven off from the gypsum just as steam is driven off from water at 212 F. Gypsum, an evaporite rock, formed at the base of the shallow Michigan basin as it dried up, leaving the CaSO4 H2O deposits behind, as gypsum.
In absolutely pure form, gypsum is white. However, gypsum normally contains impurities whose presence makes the rock appear gray, brown, pink, or even almost black.

ORIGIN OF GYPSUM DEPOSITS
Gypsum is found in many parts of the world. Gypsum deposits lie in flat beds of about six to eight feet in thickness, and are often inter-layered with limestone or shale. Gypsum deposits were formed millions of years ago when salt water oceans covered most of the earth, and as they receded, may inland "dead" seas were formed which, as evaporation continued, became more and more salty. As those salts precipitated, they formed various compounds in turn, one of which was gypsum. As millions of years passed, these salt deposits combined with decayed vegetation and other minerals, and eventually the result was stratified rock, with layers of gypsum and layers of limestone alternating, the whole covered over with many feet of glacial deposits.
Gypsum is produced commercially from open pit quarries near Tawas City and Alabaster in Iosco county and from underground mines near Grand Rapids. Gypsum deposits are located in the center of the Michigan basin. It is only mined at places where the gypsum is near the surface, while at others it is buried by more than 1200 feet of rock (see map below). Gypsum beds are seldom more than 20 feet in thickness. Near Grand Rapids, gypsum of the Michigan Formation are mined extensively, for they are very near the surface in that area. The map below shows where some of the gypsum units in the Michigan Formation are located, and the stratigraphic column below shows where the Michigan Formation fits into the rock layercake that is the Michigan Basin.
 

Scrappy4

senior member
Veteran
scrappy your turning into C-ray....LOL

I'll check into cut and paste rehab, mate!

I thought this thread would turn into another dolomite lime thread and am pleasently surprised that it did not. Props to all the posters. The mix the OP has is a solid mix mineral wise and element wise and I hope I made the reasons clear......scrappy
 

ClackamasCootz

Expired
Veteran
Basalt Rock Dust

Guaranteed Analysis - Available Nutrients

Calcium (Ca) 3%
Magnesium (Mg) 1%,
Manganese (Mn) 0.05%
Iron (Fe) 4%

Calcium (CA) & Magnesium (Mg) regulate soil cation exchange capacity which determines the availability of many other nutrients in the soil.

Magnesium (Mg) is the central atom in chlorophyll. Mg deficiencies frequently occur and are easily corrected with Basalt.

Iron (Fe) is a catalyst to chlorophyll formation. Many synthetic Fe fertilizers are ineffective because the Fe converts rapidly to unavailable forms. The Fe in Basalt is stable in the soil, even on calcareous soils. Basalt steadily supplies Fe to plants as they need it.

Manganese (Mn) accelerates germination and maturity, while increasing the availability of phosphorus (P) and Ca.


Additional Minerals and Trace Elements

  • Silicon (Si) is the major element affecting the strength of plant cell walls.
  • Copper (Cu) is necessary to chlorophyll formation.
  • Zinc (Zn) is essential for promoting certain metabolic reactions; deficiencies are common.
  • Boron (B) is essential for pollination and seed formation; deficiencies are common.
  • Aluminum (Al) is an important element for producing blue pigments in flowers.
 

ClackamasCootz

Expired
Veteran
DDG

Thanks for posting the graphic. When you mentioned this rock dust before I couldn't find much about it. In the graphic they tell you that it's Phlogopite which is also known as Magnesium mica

  • Mg - 8.5%
  • Ca - 1.5%

Keep those numbers in mind because they're basically reverse of the Ca | Mg ratio you want in soil. You will want to look at one of the Calcium Carbonate compounds and definitely avoid Dolomite Lime because the last thing you want to add to your soil mix is another Mg source if you're using this material. Limestone is probably the material that will be the easiest to find. It will have 2 - 3% Magnesium but it's still 96.x% Calcium Carbonate.

HTH

CC
 
DDG

Thanks for posting the graphic. When you mentioned this rock dust before I couldn't find much about it. In the graphic they tell you that it's Phlogopite which is also known as Magnesium mica

  • Mg - 8.5%
  • Ca - 1.5%

Keep those numbers in mind because they're basically reverse of the Ca | Mg ratio you want in soil. You will want to look at one of the Calcium Carbonate compounds and definitely avoid Dolomite Lime because the last thing you want to add to your soil mix is another Mg source if you're using this material. Limestone is probably the material that will be the easiest to find. It will have 2 - 3% Magnesium but it's still 96.x% Calcium Carbonate.

HTH

CC



thanks again for the tips cootz!

i'm not actually using this product, but for the sake of discussion i thought i would post it in this thread.

i'm using oyster shell flour, with horticultural limestone. the ratio is about 4 parts oyster shell flour mixed to 1 part of the limestone and mixed into my soil at a half cup per cubic foot. i also use 3 and 3/4 cups of glacial rock dust and a tbsp of pyro clay per cubic foot. that's my mix at this point.

DDG
 
Good 'cause you won't take any offense when I tell you this: don't use it

LOL

how does my mix look?

think i should add more rock dust...? and i can't find any gypsum this time of year. can i mix in a couple tbsps of gypsum right before i plant if i am able to source some? or does gypsum need to compost into the soil before planting?

and, yeah, i won't be using the mica!


DDG
 
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