Growing Paranoia vs reality

[SuperYields]

Hello everyone.. I am new to the forum and to growing.

I wanted to get some advise as to what to expect if I get caught. Here in TN the law is very strict for pot and having 1 plant apparently is the same penalty as for 10 plants.

But in reality do they go easier on you if you have just 1 Plant? What about 2? If I have never had a charge, shouldn't that make a difference?
I own my house and don't have to worry about anyone snitching on me, but I want to be ready in my mind, for the worse and try to keep that "worse" to a minimum, if possible. So, what would be a safer number of plants to make it out ok if caught here in TN and what should I expect as far as sentencing?... I know it impossible to predict, but from experiences you've heard or had would be good for me.

Also, I keep reading not to mail seed at your grow place, but many say it is ok too. What is the consensus on this these days?
I already bought a prepaid card and was planning on using a fake name on the order but use my grow address.
I also have the option of my UPS mailbox, but it is in my name, would that be a better option and use my real name for the order and that address of the box or is it still bad since it is still my name and my box?

I am very excited to grow some CBD strains to help my chronic pain.. so your input is really appreciated.

 

[DreamsofTesla]

Hi Super

I hope you like this board, it's a great place.

My 2 cents worth, also being on my first grow in a not so friendly state.

• In TN they're probably not going to go lighter on you for less plants based on how the law is written.
  
  
• You need to check and see if having one plant can enable them to seize your home. That's entirely possible. Somebody linked to an investigative special about cops policing for profit in TN -- the way the law is written enables them to seize all kinds of money in the "war on drugs" and they don't even have to bring charges necessarily to get away with it. I would definitely bone up on the law.
  
  
• UPS and Fed Ex can search your shit any time for no reason at all, and they get checked more than US mail at customs. IMO you're better off with mail.
  
  
• If you're going to have them sent to your house, use your real name. Your mail carrier knows who lives at your house and who doesn't.
  
  
• Reputable vendors are smart about how they ship. They don't want you getting arrested. Key word there "reputable." You'll be able to find reputable vendors on this board. Be sure to read the vendor reviews. I was very relieved when the vendor I selected didn't turn out to have a cop at the receiving end, even after doing my research.
  
  
• I did some asking around to see if anyone would receive my seeds for me, and I regret having done so now. Not only did nobody want to do that for me, but now several people know I was at least thinking of setting up a grow. So I added a ton of risk for no benefit. Given to do over again I would've just had them discretely shipped to my name at my address and no one would have the slightest idea. The main problem is if any of them get in trouble for ANYTHING, and they know somebody who has a grow, that's a pretty good get out of jail free card. Or they can be made to think it is. Cops lie.
  
  
• The package of seeds that I received was extremely low key and would raise no eyebrows whatsoever. No odor, no weird return address, totally bland small envelope.
  
  
• The worst thing in the world is for people to know you're growing. Don't tell anyone that you know. People just aren't careful with that shit.
  
  For example, one friend who I asked about receiving seeds, I bumped into her in a very public place with not only people but cops around. She was like hey, how's it going? How's your marijuana grow going? I thought I was going to die right there. She didn't know how it was going because once she told me she wouldn't help me get seeds, I never mentioned it again.
  
  Nobody will guard your secret like you will, especially if you don't. I was amazed at how indiscreet she was - i went far out of my way to be discreet in asking her and made it very clear that it was top secret. As savvy a person as she is, she didn't give it another thought, blurted that shit out loud as anything not far away from a cop.
  
  
• I bought my non-seed supplies (nutes, lighting, etc.) for cash. Anything you buy on a credit or debit card, the bank has a record of what you bought and where you bought it.
  
  
• Last but not least, check out all the videos by a guy named Barry Cooper, lots of them available on You Tube. Best research I did so far.
  

Keep your mouth shut, your head down, and your plants watered!

 

[MrSterling]

Tesla makes a lot of good points. I've made the same mistake asking friends to receive packages and just been frustrated. People who had no problem smoking my stuff were unwilling to help even when the legality and nature of postal seizures was explained. Like the FBI was going to kick down their door and put them in jail for a five pack of seeds that didn't have their name on it.

 

[SuperYields]

Thanks guys.!

Tesla, I really appreciate the detailed heads up bud!

I have been trying to search about possible outcomes for getting caught with a couple of plants but it seems that there aren't many cases that get to the news so I am still trying to figure out if I would get probation or just a fine or straight up time in jail. So if anyone can dig up some info on TN and has a good recommendation for lowest quantity to mitigate penalties when caught.. please speak up. I am doing this to stop taking prescribed oxys that are intoxicating me and making my life miserable... so I am hoping a CBD rich strain will help me get off the meds.

As for shipping the seeds to a friend's house. I am sorry your friend was such a lose mouth man... that would have spooked me badly. I thought about it, but quickly discounted the idea.
But as far as the UPS box, to make that clear, I doubt they would open my packages since I am not using them as a carrier. The carrier would be USPS delivering to my UPS box, so all the store has to do is just place my mail in my box and I pick it up. I thought that at least I am mailing to a different address from my grow even though it is still under my name. I guess that might not be a popular way to do it.
As far as using a fake name and ship to my address, I thought about using an ex roommate who still gets letters sent here sometimes. Even if the mailman knew he doesn't live here, they still have to deliver the letter or package. Otherwise what are they gonna do with it? Go through the trouble of finding out where he lives now, even if out of state? If that is the case.. please let me know.

As for buying grow equipment with cash. I have read that it is a bad idea to go in person because you can get followed and identified, pictures, etc. So I thought of buying in my roommates name as well and have packages sent to my address. The UPS box is too little and they would have to handle the package a lot more at the UPS store vs an envelope with seeds they can just stuck in the box and be done. I'd be paying with a prepaid card for all things grow.

Anyways, thanks again and let me know what you think on these points. Peace!

 

[resinryder]

When buying grow equipment, get a MUCH BIGGER carbon filter than you think you'll need. Odor needs to be your #1 priority. More growers are busted because they didn't contain the smell. Get a fan speed controller so you can adjust the airflow going through you filter as needed. If you've never grown plants in your home, you'll be surprised at how badly they reek!!
Sure send the seeds in your old room mates name shouldn't be a problem and if by some very weird chance something happens you can deny it all. Just don't set the equipment until you get them. If there's nothing there that can be used to grow them with you can clain you don't know shit about it.

 

[SuperYields]

resinryder... that was exactly what I was going to do .. order the seeds and wait about a week after I get them and THEN order the rest of the equipment.
Need to figure out if I should order the grow equip to my home or my UPS box and if in my name or roommates.
Thanks for the input!

 

[watts]

most get probation their first offense if under 99 plants. Ideally you want to keep it under 10 in TN. Don't have any scales around the house or even baggies or they will think you grow for profit.

 

[DreamsofTesla]

Tesla, I really appreciate the detailed heads up bud!

Anytime. I've just recently done this exact set of homework, and a lot of people on this board have helped me with stuff.

I have been trying to search about possible outcomes for getting caught with a couple of plants. So if anyone can dig up some info on TN and has a good recommendation for lowest quantity to mitigate penalties when caught.. please speak up.

What you're saying is perfectly reasonable. When you're an ordinary law abiding citizen, it seems like this should be how the criminal justice system works. The penalty should fit the crime. Some exceptions should be made for medical issues and clean record.

The more you look into this the more you will find that unfortunately that means absolutely nothing within our current system.

Here's a bit of an eye opener for you regarding TN law enforcement and how they roll War On Drugs style:

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/20342745/nc5-documentary-examines-policing-for-profit

Here's another eye opener, a two-hour movie that will guaranteed blow your mind.

American Drug War
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyuBuT_7I4

Ultimately you need to clearly understand what you're walking into. Know your opponent. They not only know you, they know the system and how to use it against you. They know you have no idea what will happen next.

Also make sure you pull up the Barry Cooper videos and watch them, too. He's a former cop, and he will flat out explain it.

Here's the link to NORML's state information:

http://norml.org/laws/item/tennessee-penalties-2?category_id=887

That shouldn't be taken as a definitive, but someone from your local NORML chapter will be able to give you some feedback. You'll be able to find local people who've been burned and learn from them. No need to tell them you're thinking about starting a grow. Never let on that you know anything about growing.

gonna do with it? Go through the trouble of finding out where he lives now, even if out of state? If that is the case.. please let me know.

Honestly I think using the UPS box and other names, etc. is really over complicating it. The object of the game is to look as unremarkable as possible, nothing to see here. Packages coming to people who don't live there, enh, I don't know. I'm just saying I won't mess with anything complex again, I'll just order in my name at my address. I'd rather have nobody see my carrier put something into my box or me take it out, than going into a store location on their cameras to take something out of a box with them watching. Still overly complicated IMHO.

That said it might not be a bad idea to order a few different things from various online vendors, books, posters, whatever, so that you occasionally have different things coming from out of state or overseas. Again, make this look like business as usual to your bored, nosey ass rural mail carrier.

The only thing that happens is some people get a note saying that customs seized something, and if you'd like to come get it you might be in trouble. As far as I know they don't then alert your local law enforcement. I've never found any evidence of anyone who's had their garden busted after receiving seeds in the mail. Not saying it couldn't have happened, but I've never seen anyone say that was how they got caught. Again, Barry Cooper will fill you right in on how people actually get caught. HINT: It involves telling other people about your grow.

I have heard of someone who ordered super stealth shipping, where they hid the seeds inside something, getting the yellow note that says their package was searched. Then they also searched it themselves and presto, their seeds were still there. Reputable vendors, this aint their first rodeo.

As for buying grow equipment with cash. I have read that it is a bad idea to go in person because you can get followed and identified, pictures, etc. So I thought of buying in my roommates name as well and have packages sent to my address.

I 100% disagree with this logic.

In order for them to follow you and take pictures of you going into a hydro store, if that's the case then they're already watching you for some reason, you know? If they have no reason to be watching you, they don't watch you. The time they spend watching you is time they're not spending beating up Mexicans and shaking down hookers for free sexual favors. Especially if you're white (sad, but true) and middle class or average. Law enforcement is not fair, and has nothing to do with justice.

They also don't have the resources to stake out the hydroponics store and write down license numbers. Watch the investigative report linked above -- they spend their time making money. Drive past there and check it out first, or park down the block and walk over, see if you see any signs of surveillance.

A honking big package coming from a hydroponic store or lighting supplier, as well as small packages coming from Europe or Canada, together are fishier than either one on their own. Keep in mind your mail carrier knows everybody's business.

Also, remember: any time you mail something, you involve the government. My advice, don't involve them at all if you can avoid it. Go in person. Pay cash.

I'd be paying with a prepaid card for all things grow.

Definitely endorse that. I bought money orders for my seeds and paid cash for everything else locally. Make sure there's no bank trail with your name and grow supplies.

I didn't see anything on the NORML blog linked above to say whether TN has asset forfeiture or not, but I'd bet they do. Watch the investigative report I linked above, you'll get a much better idea of who you're dealing with.

<3 Tesla

 

[that smell]

......

......

.......

 

[watts]

doesn't matter if the cops are onto you or not, they still stake out hydro stores and write down plate numbers of people who go there. Stay away from Worms Way.

 

[DreamsofTesla]

Im to your right and when I got busted,cops took everything they could and things they shouldnt have. I agree with tesla and resinryder odor and noise control,big deals both. Also people who you think are your friends will narc on you in a sec. There was 1 person besides me who knew I grew, friends for 17 years. He got busted for something stupid and used his get out of jail free card-me. Happens every day. When you asked your friends to accept seeds you just told them you are planning to grow. I got lucky because I refused a search and they screwed up warrent. You may not be so lucky. NO TELL, NO SMELL, NO NOISE. also if you are serious, you have to be very careful who you allow in your house, your life will depend on it. Def not trying to discourage you, it can be done-The cops have to have a reason to start looking at you. Be safe

Sorry this happened.

Refusing the search, this is key. Never open the door. Never consent to a search. I'm telling you, Barry Cooper will tell you exactly what you need to do to not get screwed. You really need to prepare yourself for what to do if it comes to it.

One other little piece of advice (which I hope you'll never need): don't plea bargain. if everybody who got popped for marijuana insisted on a jury trial the system would crash. They make it really hard for people to go to trial, and most people can't afford to fight back, so they take the plea. They make it sound like you're for sure going to lose, and when you do it will be much worse than if you just open wide and suck it nice.

Well these days, there are lots of people who see what a bunch of bullshit it is, there's a thing called jury nullification. Here's a bit more information:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=243770
http://reason.com/blog/2012/10/24/jury-nullification-keeps-nj-weedman-out

We don't have to just take this shit anymore.

<3 Tesla

 

[Sat X RB]

not in yr country but find out if claiming 'unsolicited mail' is a defence re seed deliveries. 'unsolicited' = you didn't ask them to be sent ... whether or not yr real name is on the package.

 

[that smell]

.......

.......

......

 

[DreamsofTesla]

Check this shit out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Ku17CqdZg&feature=player_embedded

 

[Puffaluffagus]

Have the seeds sent to your parents house.

 

[SuperYields]

thanks again for the great tips..

You are right about the UPS box. That is may be over complicating things.

I have lived at my current home for about 8yrs and my mail man and UPS drivers know me very well. Fortunately, I've ordered everything online via amazon and ebay for years. I used to be a power seller and I'm always shipping out sold items and getting in stuff.
I have gotten big boxes and also shipped out big boxes like guitars or amps.. so these mail and carrier people won't be surprised in the least when delivering big boxes.
The catch is that they are always in my name so I need to rethink ordering in my roommate's name. Ideally there would not be any paper trail in my name. I don't like the idea of having the "purchased items history" in my ebay and amazon account.
I get what you are saying about cash at the grow shop, but I am not comfortable with it yet plus want get better deals online and avoid 9% tax we pay in TN.

I've seen all of Cooper's vids.. "I do not open the door for Police, if you have a search warrant kick the door in" hahaha.. I learned a lot from those vids. Thanks for all the links, I will watch the newschannel investigation later tonight and that war on drugs doc too. !

 

[DreamsofTesla]

thanks again for the great tips..

I have lived at my current home for about 8yrs and my mail man and UPS drivers know me very well. Fortunately, I've ordered everything online via amazon and ebay for years. I used to be a power seller and I'm always shipping out sold items and getting in stuff.

Oh, well there you go. Perfect. Other people who've been burned more disagreed with me about going in person, and I think Barry Cooper does, too.

Not for nothing, but I'd probably edit your post to delete what specifically you bought and sold.

Good luck, and let's all overgrow the government!

<3 Tesla

 

[igrowone]

you've received a lot of good info on this thread, i'll put in my 2 cents
TN is stricter than NY, which is where i grow in, but there is something in common
smaller fish are less desirable than bigger ones
if you're bagged with a 1 plant grow, you're down at the bottom of the list usually
and a proportionate deal can be struck easier
not a guarantee, but grow what you need and no more, the extra weight just adds grief if you're caught holding the bag

 

[DreamsofTesla]

Another brilliant idear, since you're already hip on being a power buyer/seller, that does make the ideal manner for you to order stuff. In that case definitely order and let them do the toting and hauling, no reason to go to the hydro store whatsoever.

Better yet, branch out into being a power buyer/seller of hydroponic equipment. I don't know that they routinely raid ebay electronics dealers, though I could be wrong.

<3 Tesla

 

[FlowerFarmer]

I do agree with the hydro shop deal. you couldnt pay me enough to go to one. If i cant order it online or get at lowes, etc.then I dont get it.PS tesla thank you saying your sorry it happened...that is really great of you.Peace

On the flip side... these online suppliers are usually the same fools running the local hydro shop..running around with your name and grow address in hand while they ready your order...

You've then got to worry about both the digital copy of your purchase history as well as the physical paper copy which who knows what happens to. A legit shop may take the precaution here to file securely or shred, but I can guarantee you there are shops where this type of paper work is mishandled, tossed out, laying around, etc, etc.

It's very plausible for your info to get in the wrong hands.. either by mistake, shady or careless employees or merely cooperating with the law when "hydro shop owner" lands himself in hot water for anything he's up to.


And on top of all that.. LEO not getting these shipping records from the particular supplier.. they get "ship to" records from X hydro company from UPS/Fedex who will gladly hand this over to the appropriate parties. All plausible.

Visiting locally (larger city if possible).. paying in cash.. in a vehicle not registered to your grow address starts to actually sound a bit safer.


Not saying I'd be totally worried about ordering online either... millions are doing it every day.. there is safety in numbers and they really are not at it like that with nothing to substantiate a for sure "worthy" bust.



Personally.. I say support local if they will cut you some kind of deals.

Otherwise order online.. ship (UPS/Fedex) to a correct name/address whether that may be your grow spot or a friends. Get the seeds via USPS 1st Class Mail... preferably to a safe house, but if you're not growing commercially I think I'd just them delivered to your house in your name before you make yourself anymore hot trying to get a friend involved.


Plausible deny-ability...




Those getting busted are due to loose lips, snitches, domestic violence, smell, tell, sell.... not some intricate scheme to bust growers across the nation whom order seeds/equipment.



just my 2c.