Noobin up a PPK

[bobblehead]

Damnit Dave can't you do anything right? I mean come on...

I can think of a grower who has had worse luck than you... Just be persistent and all bad things will come to pass. A lot of the guys showing up with near perfect builds have 5+ years of experience under their belt. Some of us are only in it for less than 5 and have to do the best we can in the time we have...

Persistence wins every time.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

I can think of a grower who has had worse luck than you..

Shit.. I might be runner up. My gardens while not necessarily yielding too bad, have been nothing but headache for me these last few rounds. Starting a PPK thread myself right now.. we'll see if I can fuck this up.


Dave, I think what D9 is saying is just run it like a regular top feed coco setup. A few smaller waterings throughout the day, but not necessarily to full flood/saturation of the coco... at least not until its well rooted/established in the coco. It'll work just fine... much like a hempy, but just might not be able to achieve the full-on benefits of frequent pulse saturation like you would in turface.

Tailpiece still gives you the benefit of keeping your coco's feet out of water while allowing wicking uptake if needed.



Has anyone tried using coco with a different media packed into the tailpiece?


Seems as though if perlite could wick enough one could pack their tailpiece with with smaller granular perlite and maybe an inch into the upper container, filling the rest with coco. Seems that this might prevent the coco from compacting too much into the tailpiece and causing drainage issues.

Would there be enough capillary for this to be plausible?


I'm interested in other possible media for this setup. Are you familiar with Botanicare ReadyGro Air Mix Dave? I'm just guessing here, but it might be a workable mix for frequent PPK irrigation.

ReadyGro is a premium blend of select, all-natural and organic ingredients containing an optimum air-to-water ratio for superior growth rates and yields over conventional potting soils. ReadyGro is available in two unique formulas depending on your gardening requirements.
ReadyGro uses premium organic ingredients and supplements including coir fiber, perlite, pumice stone, earthworm castings, agrimineral 76 silica clay, sea weed meal, sea weed concentrate, leonardite ore (natural humates), organic compost, mycorrhizae fungi, and organic root innoculants (beneficial microorganisms).
ReadyGro Aeration Formula (4 to 6 waterings daily) is specifically designed for automated hydrogardens and self-watering planters with small to midsize plants. This blend is lighter and contains higher air content than the moist formula. It is virtually impossible to over-water plants with this formula. Plants can sit in ReadyGro with 1 to 2 inches of water and, through the process of capillary feeding, hydrate and feed as needed.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

I'm interested in other possible media for this setup. Are you familiar with Botanicare ReadyGro Air Mix Dave? I'm just guessing here, but it might be a workable mix for frequent PPK irrigation.

i doubt i will be able to get botanicare mediums here. I can get perlite and that was a consideration before people told me coco was ok.

i was at the hydro whore store today and it turns out that theres a law in my state that stops most ferts that are legal in the rest of the country being sold here. The Maxibloom is illegal for example. Its stupid how limited for options i am.

I am at the point where i have to decide to either rip the plant out and repot (again) in perlite now or take my chances with coco and see what happens. Next time will be a 50/50 chow mix.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

I think you'll be fine.


If you run into problems just drill a few holes in the bottom of your upper container so that it can drain better.... like in D9's earlier designs.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

i just had an awesome thought RE PPKs

each plant has its very own res built into it
that makes it easy to test nute additives to try them out.
say you wanted to try GH Flora Nectar Blueberry Dream, but didnt want to fuck up a while crop with that crap.
stick it in the local res once a week or so for shits and giggles and see what happens.

this idea amuses me greatly.

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

Ya got me thinking 2 things dave...

1st.. Why not a coco wick with a solid few inches of perlit sandwiched by coco on top..

Takes care of the compression issue allows ya ta use the coco ya gotz and who knows...
Perhaps ya can continue on ya quest ta saturate the biatch..lol

2nd.. Your idea on side line. Permanent/ temperary special feeding PPK is genius...
I could see this use up some Age old line of nutes I have and was trying to figure out how. Lol.

Think quare control buckets. So as to fits many in a small space..

JUST MY 2cents for what there worth..

Looking like a learning curve you can handle. . Work her hard bro..

----- -----

 

[delta9nxs]

so you don't have a repeat cycle timer? how long exactly does it take to drain
and what is the delivery rate at the plant? not rated pump output but what you are actually getting at the plant? say a liter or gal per how many seconds?

 

[delta9nxs]

i doubt i will be able to get botanicare mediums here. I can get perlite and that was a consideration before people told me coco was ok.

i was at the hydro whore store today and it turns out that theres a law in my state that stops most ferts that are legal in the rest of the country being sold here. The Maxibloom is illegal for example. Its stupid how limited for options i am.

I am at the point where i have to decide to either rip the plant out and repot (again) in perlite now or take my chances with coco and see what happens. Next time will be a 50/50 chow mix.

perlite floats and is totally unsuitable for saturation. stick with the coco. i have used every combo of coco, perlite, and turface that you can think of in varying percentages in the passive plant killer thread and none grew a better plant than the straight coco with a wave pulse. it may just be that coco should be operated with a wave pulse because of it's characteristic of being compressible. adapt to it for now as you are having a hard time finding media. we can solve the drain problem by going to a wave pulse.

if you don't have a repeat cycle timer how are you controlling the pump?

 

[delta9nxs]

hi again people. I recently built a PPK. The details are in https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=235163&page=37

i just went spongolite as a medium this time as zeolites concern me. They told me the bag was pre rinsed and good to go. i open it up to a face full of dust. Rinsing it leaves this muddy shit, never trust the shop to pre rinse anything.

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I only have room for 1 in my veg tent so here it is, clone planted :

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its Ace Of Spades, which i also have growing in my flower tent now but i have never finished before. Its what i had ready

It takes me about 1 minute of pump to fully flood the yellow tub, and about 15 minutes for it to reasonably drain. Im not sure if this is good or not. maybe i need more holes in my tailpiece, or maybe thats how it works? Im flooding once every 6 hours at the moment but as it gets bigger i might increase that.

hey dave, me again! i looked this shit up and it looks fantastic! has all the right properties and is hard, non-compactable.

your drain time here is really not that bad and occurred before you changed to the screen bottoms on the tubes. with the screens it will drain much faster.

it needs to be washed heavily and maybe screened a little is all. looks reusable too.

 

[bobblehead]

Hey Dave, if you need a cheap recycle timer... I saw a link to make a $5 light timer into a 50 seconds on every 40mins cycle timer... Not as nice as the timers D9 uses, but if you're on a budget... Let me know if you want it and I'll dig it up.

 

[SecondAttempt]

First thing Bobble I would love that link even if Dave doesn't want it.

D9 I will be using coco because its what I have available right now... what is a "Wave Pulse"? Looks like I have to reread... again.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

well i went into the tent today and the first thing i noticed is that the floor is flooded. im pushing more water into the pot than it can handle in a 1 minute period. Due to wicking the coco never gets dry and im giving it overkill.

I really am quite confused at how i can find so many problems in a system that so many other people made from scratch and ran flawlessly. Part of me wants to chop off the tailpieces and make it an old fashioned recirc drain system with no wick.

so you don't have a repeat cycle timer? how long exactly does it take to drain
and what is the delivery rate at the plant? not rated pump output but what you are actually getting at the plant? say a liter or gal per how many seconds?

i havent measured the volume moved in 1 minute yet. I checked the tent and its flooded so obviously even watering once every 6 hours its still too much. Im going to have to put a T and a valve on the pump to lower the volume of water moved it seems.

i do have a repeat cycle timer thats a dodgy from china. its 1-5 minutes on and 1-5 minutes off. but the labels are very inaccurate and its a try and see to test the durations. I suspect its also inconsistent as to how long it runs for even at the same setting. I have no faith in it and are loathe to rely on it.

perlite floats and is totally unsuitable for saturation. stick with the coco. i have used every combo of coco, perlite, and turface that you can think of in varying percentages in the passive plant killer thread and none grew a better plant than the straight coco with a wave pulse. it may just be that coco should be operated with a wave pulse because of it's characteristic of being compressible. adapt to it for now as you are having a hard time finding media. we can solve the drain problem by going to a wave pulse.

right, scratch the perlite. that i can do. Now excuse my ignorance, but whats a pulse, whats a wave, and whats the difference?

if you don't have a repeat cycle timer how are you controlling the pump?

a normal timer, 1 minute every 6 hours. ive turned it off for now, going to mamually fire it up till theres a bigger plant but i suspect that the wicking will never allow me to run that pump for 1 minute straight.

hey dave, me again! i looked this shit up and it looks fantastic! has all the right properties and is hard, non-compactable.

thats what i thought, i did my research and figured i was on a winner. But it pushed the EC from 1.2 to 2.4 to 3.6 within 1 hour and that just scared me.

your drain time here is really not that bad and occurred before you changed to the screen bottoms on the tubes. with the screens it will drain much faster.

it needs to be washed heavily and maybe screened a little is all. looks reusable too.

i washed the shit outta it. obviously not enough. in theory it should be perfect.

Hey Dave, if you need a cheap recycle timer... I saw a link to make a $5 light timer into a 50 seconds on every 40mins cycle timer... Not as nice as the timers D9 uses, but if you're on a budget... Let me know if you want it and I'll dig it up.

dude throw that shit up. ill read it and i bet many others too. Dont start hiding all the goodies on me now!

First thing Bobble I would love that link even if Dave doesn't want it.

see

 

[delta9nxs]

well, in plant irrigation research papers, they consider pulsed irrigation, which is the delivery of water intermittently in a timed cyclic fashion, to be a sub-class of drip.

if you google "pulsed irrigation" the first few pages are about relieving fecal compaction and this is not where i got the idea.

but if you go a little deeper and get past the compacted feces, (i couldn't help it) you will find research papers almost exclusively on pulse irrigation of field crops in the open soil column.

some of these papers were able to determine that they got enhanced growth using the same amount of water if they applied it intermittently instead of a steady drip or in a single episode per day.

applied at the rate the soil dried instead of perceived plant needs.

it got me thinking about why they were getting higher yields because of this and i realized that it was because the soil conditions were in an ideal range for a longer period of time per day.

then i began looking at container growing in general and realized that the old methodology of watering only when the medium dries down was fundamentally flawed for the production of anything that is measured by weight

it's fine for stasis growing of houseplants and long term maintenance of ornamental crops that you don't want to get too big but if yield in weight is your goal you want that medium within an ideal band of parameters for as high a percentage of time as possible during the life of the plant.

that's why i water through the dark period. we are watering the medium not the plant.

well ok that's basic pulse theory and it was the only pulse theory until icmag member and fellow ppk user Imaginary Friend stopped using small amounts frequently and started flooding the entire container each time.

he termed it "saturation pulse". "wave" is my nomenclature to differentiate.

the first thing is to divert some of the water back into the res.

 

[delta9nxs]

you can totally control the volume of your pulse even with a timer controlled minimum on duration of one minute by putting on a T with one part going to the container and the other going first to a cheap ball valve and then back to the reservoir.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

relieving fecal compaction

In australia we have a term for this. I wont share it with you for risk of offence and removal from the web site to profanity

but if you go a little deeper and get past the compacted feces

i do suggest you visit your local physician as it is a serious issue and not something i am qualified to help you with Digging at it with a pencil is not adequate.

ps how did the mathematician fix his constipation : he worked it out with a pencil.

you can totally control the volume of your pulse even with a timer controlled minimum on duration of one minute by putting on a T with one part going to the container and the other going first to a cheap ball valve and then back to the reservoir.

yup i mentioned something of this nature in my last post. Its already done. What actually leaked was the overflow draining down over the float top up level. I have 2 holes in the side of the res for inline drains and the nutes leaked out there. Ive lowered the float, added the pressure reducing tap on the pump, and plugged the 2 holes in the side.

ps you really need to deal with the underlying problem of fecal compaction, it is a serious health issue !

 

[delta9nxs]

i just use one of these. this is the monogrammed, vip, sterling silver edition. for that truly stubborn sh*t!

how do you like that smart looking matching case?

 

[hotboxes]

my opinion dave is that with coco the wick is just that a "wick", u might have to just cut holes in the bottom of the top container to drain the coco.

 

[forkup]

Dave if you had room for the rez and a milk crate in the tent don't you have room to just run a shallow rez with the 2 buckets on top. I'm thinking the extra size of a lower bucket rather than the pipe gives you more stability. No room for a remote rez huh. Also with your high temp problems the smaller pipe may allow the solution in it to run hotter than with a larger bucket. A few degrees may make a difference altho the ppk has proven capable of handling higher water temps than dwc. Like others have said you need better environmental control. Steady high temps are one thing but large fluctuations are costly.

 

[farmari]

Dave I'm using coco, so far so good. (no yields yet... I know) Drains slowly but no clogs yet. Single 1.25" diameter tailpieces for 1gal, 2gal, and 5 gal buckets. I'm using the same nutes/ppms/ec/tap water as I did for rdwc and haven't had plants look this healthy in early flowering before, great growth rate also. Most buckets aren't getting a saturation pulse.

Are you under strict plant limits? Wondering if it would be possible to have many small plants elevated on a table with the res below, if that would work better for you.

well ok that's basic pulse theory and it was the only pulse theory until icmag member and fellow ppk user Imaginary Friend stopped using small amounts frequently and started flooding the entire container each time.

he termed it "saturation pulse". "wave" is my nomenclature to differentiate.

D9 (or anyone else) do you have an opinion on the benefits of this? I mean, using coco PPKs, might there have a significant yield reduction from not doing a saturation pulse but rather small waves? Maybe I've incidentally avoided a gastroenterologist appointment by cheaping out on equipment and doing a poor PPK installation, reducing risk of impaction. BTW thank you for chiming in on the tailpiece install detail earlier.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

my opinion dave is that with coco the wick is just that a "wick", u might have to just cut holes in the bottom of the top container to drain the coco.

im trying to do things by the book for a change to get a reliable system. I want to try and do it the way it was designed rather than start fucking about with it. its working now with a lesser flow rate and a few other tweaks like the float level.

Dave if you had room for the rez and a milk crate in the tent don't you have room to just run a shallow rez with the 2 buckets on top. I'm thinking the extra size of a lower bucket rather than the pipe gives you more stability. No room for a remote rez huh.

i cant put 2 buckets in cause one would sit on top of the float valve and stop that working. Ive already thought about that one. Im going to revisit this with a bigger res and a smaller float valve and some creative plumbing to try and make it work. Good thinking tho.

Dave I'm using coco, so far so good. (no yields yet... I know) Drains slowly but no clogs yet. Single 1.25" diameter tailpieces for 1gal, 2gal, and 5 gal buckets. I'm using the same nutes/ppms/ec/tap water as I did for rdwc and haven't had plants look this healthy in early flowering before, great growth rate also. Most buckets aren't getting a saturation pulse.

good to know it can stand tall with the big boys

Are you under strict plant limits? Wondering if it would be possible to have many small plants elevated on a table with the res below, if that would work better for you.

very much plant limits. and that sounds a bit like a flood and drain table to me more than a PPK.

Maybe I've incidentally avoided a gastroenterologist appointment by cheaping out on equipment and doing a poor PPK installation, reducing risk of impaction

im sure you would still be welcome to turn up in a recreational capacity