Aliens, yay or nay?

[BushyOldGrower]

The funny thing is that we all have beliefs.

Mostly we make decisions about we believe based on feelings. I don't really know many scientists but they seem like most people often believing in things.

There really are many mysteries to understand about our history and aliens or angels could be possible explanations but we pretty much agree that we can't be alone in thhe universe.

I never made any claim of certainty as my disclaimer makes clear.

But seeing is believing.

 

[ezak420]

Green aliens, gray aliens and highly advanced eternal robot aliens. I don't get why aliens don't help us settle our differences by showing up and proving who the intelligent beings really are.

 

[Anti]

Oh I see you were trying to nitpick my point and isolate it such that you could apply your scenario.

Silly me, I thought I was participating in a discussion about fanciful things we have no evidence for.

Okay, so you started a thread. You even go further then I ask by saying that all these Intelligent life forms can travel between galaxies. So it should be a snap for you to say, "Yes I believe alien races may have visited here from other planets".

I speculated for fun about something there is no evidence for. That's a far cry from saying that I BELIEVE there are alien civilizations advanced enough to travel between galaxies.

So it would certainly not be a "snap" for me to say what you want me to say, because (and this is the important part) I have no such belief.

I recognize that it is POSSIBLE and maybe even PROBABLE that life exists elsewhere. This is FAR from a belief in aliens, and REALLY, REALLY far from a belief that aliens are visiting this planet.

My opinion however is that for you to take the position it is not true then you are equally obligated to supply proof that it's not true, just like you expect others to provide proof that it is.

I am not taking the position that it is not true. In fact, if you go back and read my responses in this thread, I say several times that I am interested in any EVIDENCE that anyone cares to present.


Let's think about it for a second, ok?

Scenario #1 - You claim you have some keys and a phone in your left front pocket. This is a reasonable thing compared to my past experiences. I can take your word for it.


Scenario #2 - You claim you have a one-of-a-kind Babe Ruth rookie baseball card in your pocket. It's within the realm of possibility, but people who have such things tend to take care of them. Depending on how well I know you, I might take your word for it, but I'd probably ask to see it.

Scenario #3 - You claim to have the taste of green in your pocket. I don't believe you.

Aliens, ghosts, gods, and other out of the ordinary things require extraordinary evidence BEFORE one should believe in them.

Think of it like a criminal trial.

The jury is not asked to decide whether the defendant is GUILTY or INNOCENT. They are asked to decide between GUILTY and NOT GUILTY.

I am not claiming that the guy is innocent (i.e. "There is absolutely no way that aliens are visiting Earth.")

I am also not claiming the guy is guilty (i.e. "There are DEFINITELY aliens visiting Earth.")

I am claiming the guy is NOT GUILTY (i.e. "I have seen no evidence that aliens are visiting Earth.")

Don't be obtuse, you know very well that I didn't mean everything one can imagine that can neither be proven or disproven people should be open to.

How would I know very well what YOU mean? If I always knew exactly what everyone meant, conversations would be a lot shorter:



You: "blah blah, knowledge, blah, blah."

Me: "Yup."

END

 

[HempKat]

we're not talking about the same place. was your book written by van däniken? he's the one that changes the stone type and weight to seem more incredible then it is.

Like I said, I read it more then 30 years ago and I don't remember who wrote it or what the title was. The idea of aliens visiting earth was real big around that time and yes Daniken was one of the people putting things out at that time too but I can't say for certain it was one of his books. I did see in the movie where he said something was like 800 tons when other sources say it was only about a forth or third that weight but that had nothing to do with a tunnel in the Andes, that was in connection with that city in the Bolivian highlands. I'm not sure that fully discredits his work though, just his ability to estimate weight. It was the opinion of the narrator he said that on purpose to make something seem more incredible then it was but unless the narrator had a confession from Daniken to that effect, which I seriously doubt, then that's just one of several examples of how the narrator was just as guilty of slanting things to support the case he was making. Which is like the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[legalizeDK]

I recognize that it is POSSIBLE and maybe even PROBABLE that life exists elsewhere. This is FAR from a belief in aliens, and REALLY, REALLY far from a belief that aliens are visiting this planet.

maybe probable? there souldn´t be any doubt given the size and age of the universe, just read that astronomers estimate there may be 4.5 billions earthlike planets in the milkyway alone.

Scenario #3 - You claim to have the taste of green in your pocket. I don't believe you.

are you comparing scenario 3 with aliens visiting earth? because tasting a color is not possible or probable

 

[HempKat]

Silly me, I thought I was participating in a discussion about fanciful things we have no evidence for.

Oh okay so you still want to play the obtuse game eh? Okay yes you are participating in a discussion about things that to this point have yet to be proven or disproven. One of the particular ways you participate is by nitpicking at things. Presumably with the notion that if you can win your point on the one particular aspect you highlight in bold by applying an imaginary scenario that fits those words in bold, you've then discredited/disproven the whole thing, even the parts not in bold. Another way you participate is to mock people by posting a painting of pegasus and saying it proves Pegasus is real. Yet another way is to say that a video a person presented as proof is of such a poor quality that you think a 15 year old faked it with Adobe After Effects and that if the poster is convinced by that then you have some magic beans you want to sell him. Still yet another is to act surprised when someone calls you on this sort of behavior and claim you thought you were just participating in a discussion.

I speculated for fun about something there is no evidence for. That's a far cry from saying that I BELIEVE there are alien civilizations advanced enough to travel between galaxies.

So it would certainly not be a "snap" for me to say what you want me to say, because (and this is the important part) I have no such belief.

I recognize that it is POSSIBLE and maybe even PROBABLE that life exists elsewhere. This is FAR from a belief in aliens, and REALLY, REALLY far from a belief that aliens are visiting this planet.

Ah okay, you left it out that it was for fun when you mention the thread you started. I only asked if you believed in the probability that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the galaxy. To which you presented your thread that calculated there are 3,000,000 civilizations that not only are intelligent but can in fact travel between galaxies. I'm not exactly sure how one would calculate the abilities to do something human science currently thinks is impossible though. It would seem your intent was to demonstrate without a doubt you believe intelligent life probably exists elsewhere in the universe. I guess that's why you left the "for fun" part out? Maybe you figured it wouldn't seem like you do agree that intelligent life probably exists if you said that thread was done just for grins and giggles? Now if you go back and reread what I was asking, the thing you think is what I wanted you to say, Wasn't that aliens do exist and have been here. it was, and I quote myself here. First a question asking "Do you not agree that due to the laws of probability that it is very unlikely we are the only intelligent life form in the universe?" followed by an accessment "If you agree with that then you should remain open to the possability that life form has learned to travel beyond it's planet just like we have." So yes, if as you suggested you believe that it's probable that 3,000,000 intelligent alien races exist in the universe with the power to travel between galaxies, then it most certainly should be a snap to believe they may have come here. I never asked for you to say say it was a certainty (note the bolded portion of my quoted question and remark).

I am not taking the position that it is not true. In fact, if you go back and read my responses in this thread, I say several times that I am interested in any EVIDENCE that anyone cares to present.

But wait, in the part quote above you say it's a far cry to accuse you of beliving in the existence of aliens. That sounds pretty much to me like you're taking the position of "it's not true". To be fair you did ask for evidence, the problem I got with that as proving you're open minded on the topic you'll only accept evidence that you deem is evidence. In other words it can't be an artistic rendering from a time when cameras didn't exist and if it's a photograph it has to be of sufficient quality in your opinion. It also can't be an eye witness accounting because you seem to have an even lower regard for that as evidence. I noticed you like to make up imaginary scenarios to make points so I'll give you one in return.

I see an alien and not only does he have a flying saucer but he lands it in front of me, gets out, walks up to me, shakes my hand and introduces himself and this did in fact actually happen (just pretend for the hypothetical scenario). Then I run into you, you don't know me from Adam, and I say, "Hey I just saw an alien get out of his space ship, walk up to me, shake my hand and introduce himself. You're going to say it didn't happen and will likely assume I'm crazy simply because my eye witness evidence isn't good enough for you, even though it actually happened (again just pretend for the hypothetical scenario. In other words lack of sufficient evidence in your opinion is not sufficient to say no evidence exists.

Let's think about it for a second, ok?

Scenario #1 - You claim you have some keys and a phone in your left front pocket. This is a reasonable thing compared to my past experiences. I can take your word for it.


Scenario #2 - You claim you have a one-of-a-kind Babe Ruth rookie baseball card in your pocket. It's within the realm of possibility, but people who have such things tend to take care of them. Depending on how well I know you, I might take your word for it, but I'd probably ask to see it.

Scenario #3 - You claim to have the taste of green in your pocket. I don't believe you.

Aliens, ghosts, gods, and other out of the ordinary things require extraordinary evidence BEFORE one should believe in them.

Think of it like a criminal trial.

The jury is not asked to decide whether the defendant is GUILTY or INNOCENT. They are asked to decide between GUILTY and NOT GUILTY.

I am not claiming that the guy is innocent (i.e. "There is absolutely no way that aliens are visiting Earth.")

I am also not claiming the guy is guilty (i.e. "There are DEFINITELY aliens visiting Earth.")

I am claiming the guy is NOT GUILTY (i.e. "I have seen no evidence that aliens are visiting Earth.")

Okay well you seem to be going to great lengths to make the case that you are open to the possibility so I'm a little confused why you feel the need to argue with me about it as that's all I'm saying. I'm not asking anyone to be so open minded that there brains fall out, just open minded enough to say "Yes since their probably is intelligent life in the universe then it's possible it may have found it's way here." Note the bolded areas again since you seem to read probable and possible but then think I said certainty and absolute belief

How would I know very well what YOU mean? If I always knew exactly what everyone meant, conversations would be a lot shorter:

Okay my apologies may I gave you too much benefit of the doubt on your level of intelligence. If you didn't understand what I mean though then it makes even less sense that you would bold only a portion of my comment and then later say your reply about imaginary intangible unicorns only applied to that.

You: "blah blah, knowledge, blah, blah."

Me: "Yup."

END

Hmmm I guess that there is evidence I gave you to much benefit of the doubt on your level of intelligence. But hey it's not all bad, looks like you got one and two syllabel words down pretty good.

 

[HempKat]

maybe probable? there souldn´t be any doubt given the size and age of the universe, just read that astronomers estimate there may be 4.5 billions earthlike planets in the milkyway alone.

Cut him some slack he seems to read probable but thinks he read definately. So when he says maybe probable, likely he means definately probable

are you comparing scenario 3 with aliens visiting earth? because tasting a color is not possible or probable

He just picked that because you can't prove or disprove that color has taste and that I have it in my pocket. OF course he's making the assumption that when I say Green I mean the color. I might say Green and mean money which money does have a taste because it has an odor and most of what we call flavor is actually the odor. Like Strawberries, you can't taste strawberry you can only taste sweet, sour, tart and bitter, the rest of what we mean when we talk about tasting something is from the smell mixing with what our taste buds pick up. I could als be talk about PCP sprayed onto parcley which in slang is often refered to as "Green" due to the color of parcley and that type of green most definately has a flavor or taste.

 

[legalizeDK]

He just picked that because you can't prove or disprove that color has taste and that I have it in my pocket. OF course he's making the assumption that when I say Green I mean the color. I might say Green and mean money which money does have a taste because it has an odor and most of what we call flavor is actually the odor. Like Strawberries, you can't taste strawberry you can only taste sweet, sour, tart and bitter, the rest of what we mean when we talk about tasting something is from the smell mixing with what our taste buds pick up. I could als be talk about PCP sprayed onto parcley which in slang is often refered to as "Green" due to the color of parcley and that type of green most definately has a flavor or taste.

 

[Stoner4Life]

as far as alien life goes we've been consumed with the idea that not only intelligent life exists, most believe in a 'more intelligent' life form, this is why imo.

since we've been imagining aliens we could only picture them visiting us because we hadn't even put satellites into space yet, immediately we'd given them a nearly god like status for conquering intergalactic space travel while we were flying propeller planes and had just begun experimenting w/jet & rocket travel.

I imagine that the real scenario more closely resembles that we're 'as good as it gets' and somewhere out there we'll eventually stumble onto a planet inhabited by amoebas and the equivalent of space rats n' roaches.

 

[forester]

I think their are a multitude of alien species out there. everything from amoebas to consciousness entities that we wouldn't recognise if we were floating in the middle of them. Ultimately whatever they were they would most likely be too massively different from to even be recogniseable as life.

If there are anything like the "greys", I think they are from our evolutionary chain. The way they are constructed is inherently human/ape. Proof of time travel rather than interstellar life??? The grey physique seems to me to be suited to how I picture future human lifestyles... small frames as no physical labour, hairless (compare us to neanderthals and apes, large eyes and small mouths suggest to me communications through non verbal means (how much is our social life even now based on the computer).

 

[High Country]

I worry more about myself and family. Aliens? Not my problem.

 

[bill cooper]

I think their are a multitude of alien species out there. everything from amoebas to consciousness entities that we wouldn't recognise if we were floating in the middle of them. Ultimately whatever they were they would most likely be too massively different from to even be recogniseable as life.

If there are anything like the "greys", I think they are from our evolutionary chain. The way they are constructed is inherently human/ape. Proof of time travel rather than interstellar life??? The grey physique seems to me to be suited to how I picture future human lifestyles... small frames as no physical labour, hairless (compare us to neanderthals and apes, large eyes and small mouths suggest to me communications through non verbal means (how much is our social life even now based on the computer).

If there anything like the greys lol the greys are from sci fi movies they are not real ffs

 

[BushyOldGrower]

We were evolved on a planet orbiting a second generation star so there are many far older solar systems where life could have evolved long before us.

So if you agree that there are other life forms out there why would they be less advanced than us? We are the babies in this universe according to science.

I think the great realization we are all going to have will be this issue. We will all soon know that aliens are here already and have always been here.

Maybe not.

 

[Hank Hemp]

DP sorry

 

[Hank Hemp]

Who can spot the hybrid?

Who can spot the hybrid?

It toke me several tries!!!

 

[Anti]

maybe probable? there souldn´t be any doubt given the size and age of the universe, just read that astronomers estimate there may be 4.5 billions earthlike planets in the milkyway alone.

I said it was possible and probable. Without evidence of extra-terrestrial life I cannot claim to BELIEVE it exists.

are you comparing scenario 3 with aliens visiting earth? because tasting a color is not possible or probable

No. I was not. I was laying out three scenarios. One I would accept without evidence. One I would accept WITH evidence, and one I would not accept at all.

Scenario three was something that simply makes no sense, so I don't need to look for evidence, I can say for SURE that you don't have the taste of green in your pocket. I can't be SURE that you don't have a babe ruth rookie card in your pocket, but it would definitely be out of the ordinary for you to do so, so I ask for evidence.

Aliens visiting our planet are in category 2. And I am asking for evidence.

I am not FLAT OUT saying "Aliens can't possibly have visited earth." which should be obvious to anyone who has read ANY of my posts in this thread.

 

[Canniwhatsis]

It toke me several tries!!!
View Image

I don't know hank. I know a couple guys who might have modeled for that 4th one.

 

[Seal-Clubber]

Hank Hemp.. hahahaha I LOVE THAT PHOTO! it almost makes us look stupid or something! Anti, I`m not lying when I say, "i`ve had an experience".. You can ask me questions if you like, if you know much, you will know i`m not lying.

 

[greenmatter]

It toke me several tries!!!
View Image

where is the picture of snookie?

 

[Anti]

Oh okay so you still want to play the obtuse game eh? Okay yes you are participating in a discussion about things that to this point have yet to be proven or disproven. One of the particular ways you participate is by nitpicking at things. Presumably with the notion that if you can win your point on the one particular aspect you highlight in bold by applying an imaginary scenario that fits those words in bold, you've then discredited/disproven the whole thing, even the parts not in bold. Another way you participate is to mock people by posting a painting of pegasus and saying it proves Pegasus is real. Yet another way is to say that a video a person presented as proof is of such a poor quality that you think a 15 year old faked it with Adobe After Effects and that if the poster is convinced by that then you have some magic beans you want to sell him. Still yet another is to act surprised when someone calls you on this sort of behavior and claim you thought you were just participating in a discussion.

And you apparently are participating in the thread by deciding who is smarter than whom and then having the bad taste to make many spelling errors while you speculate about MY intelligence.

Ah okay, you left it out that it was for fun when you mention the thread you started. I only asked if you believed in the probability that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the galaxy. To which you presented your thread that calculated there are 3,000,000 civilizations that not only are intelligent but can in fact travel between galaxies. I'm not exactly sure how one would calculate the abilities to do something human science currently thinks is impossible though. It would seem your intent was to demonstrate without a doubt you believe intelligent life probably exists elsewhere in the universe. I guess that's why you left the "for fun" part out? Maybe you figured it wouldn't seem like you do agree that intelligent life probably exists if you said that thread was done just for grins and giggles? Now if you go back and reread what I was asking, the thing you think is what I wanted you to say, Wasn't that aliens do exist and have been here. it was, and I quote myself here. First a question asking "Do you not agree that due to the laws of probability that it is very unlikely we are the only intelligent life form in the universe?" followed by an accessment "If you agree with that then you should remain open to the possability that life form has learned to travel beyond it's planet just like we have." So yes, if as you suggested you believe that it's probable that 3,000,000 intelligent alien races exist in the universe with the power to travel between galaxies, then it most certainly should be a snap to believe they may have come here. I never asked for you to say say it was a certainty (note the bolded portion of my quoted question and remark).

If you asked me whether I thought it was PROBABLE that alien life exists somewhere, I would say yes. If you asked whether I BELIEVED that alien life exists elsewhere, I would say no. Is that really so hard to grasp?

But wait, in the part quote above you say it's a far cry to accuse you of beliving in the existence of aliens. That sounds pretty much to me like you're taking the position of "it's not true". To be fair you did ask for evidence, the problem I got with that as proving you're open minded on the topic you'll only accept evidence that you deem is evidence. In other words it can't be an artistic rendering from a time when cameras didn't exist and if it's a photograph it has to be of sufficient quality in your opinion. It also can't be an eye witness accounting because you seem to have an even lower regard for that as evidence. I noticed you like to make up imaginary scenarios to make points so I'll give you one in return.

I'm not taking the position "it's not true" that would be like saying "INNOCENT" in my courtroom analogy. I am taking the position "I have seen no evidence that it is true" which would be like saying "NOT GUILTY" in my courtroom analogy.

OJ Simpson was found "NOT GUILTY". He was not found "INNOCENT." Can you grasp the difference between the two?

I see an alien and not only does he have a flying saucer but he lands it in front of me, gets out, walks up to me, shakes my hand and introduces himself and this did in fact actually happen (just pretend for the hypothetical scenario). Then I run into you, you don't know me from Adam, and I say, "Hey I just saw an alien get out of his space ship, walk up to me, shake my hand and introduce himself. You're going to say it didn't happen and will likely assume I'm crazy simply because my eye witness evidence isn't good enough for you, even though it actually happened (again just pretend for the hypothetical scenario. In other words lack of sufficient evidence in your opinion is not sufficient to say no evidence exists.

If you say you saw anything that is outside the boundaries of my experience, I am going to ask you for evidence. Failing evidence, how do I know you aren't mistaken, crazy or lying?

If you say you have a set of keys in your pocket, that's reasonable. YOu might be lying, but I've known lots of people who carry keys in their pocket. My worldview will not be shifted if I find out later that there were no keys.

If you say you have Michael Jackson's penis in your pocket, it's theoretically POSSIBLE that you got ahold of his wang and carry it around with you. I'm going to ask for evidence. And if you don't pull the wang out of your pocket, I'm going to assume you are lying or crazy or mistaken.

If you say you have the space shuttle discovery in your pocket, I know you are full of shit. Your pocket simply isn't big enough.

Okay well you seem to be going to great lengths to make the case that you are open to the possibility so I'm a little confused why you feel the need to argue with me about it as that's all I'm saying. I'm not asking anyone to be so open minded that there brains fall out, just open minded enough to say "Yes since their probably is intelligent life in the universe then it's possible it may have found it's way here." Note the bolded areas again since you seem to read probable and possible but then think I said certainty and absolute belief

You are the one equating possible and probable with belief. You asked me if I believed in something. I said no. And I explained it.

Okay my apologies may I gave you too much benefit of the doubt on your level of intelligence. If you didn't understand what I mean though then it makes even less sense that you would bold only a portion of my comment and then later say your reply about imaginary intangible unicorns only applied to that.

Now you're attacking MY INTELLIGENCE rather than my argument. Good show!

Hmmm I guess that there is evidence I gave you to much benefit of the doubt on your level of intelligence. But hey it's not all bad, looks like you got one and two syllabel words down pretty good.

Here you again attack my intelligence, while misspelling syllable.

You funny, funny guy!