The word "sativa" means "cultivated." Weed grown for rope and paper is cannabis sativa. Weed grown for oil seed is cannabis sativa. Weed grown for curing cancer is cannabis sativa. Weed grown for getting loaded is cannabis sativa. It's all the same plant. People have been fiddling with the same genetic pallet for thousands of years producing vastly different varieties of cannabis for vastly different uses. Have humans exhausted the weed's full range of possibilities? I don't think so.
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Sure but that was pretty much done prior to 40-50 years ago as far as strength goes. What we have now is really no better per say, but we do have a much larger variety. I was very much able to get totally fucked up on the same amount of weed i can today.
Also note combining them doesn't change genetics, it just combines them. Changing genetics as far as we do today with GMO crops is totally different than selective breeding the same family.
I just hope we never see GMO weed, as I think it would take away and make Cannabis a lot worse and potentially harmful.
Hey just look at how screwed up the GMO crops are now, that's changing genetics and it isn't working out to well for them idiots.
rangergord
Active member
I am not convinced GMO's are completely bad. Lets suppose that in the future through genetic engineering and manipulation genes are combined from different varieties to increase the efficiency of cannabinoid synthesis so that THC was now not just 20% or so but now 40 -60%THC was easy to obtain and flowering times were two weeks shorter as well. Best of all the process could only be done in an expensive lab meaning companies could attempt to monopolize the market. People would have to buy the initial clones but after that they could clone just as they do now. People cant get enough of this one hit wonder weed and never want to have anything to do with the old varieties again! Oh wait.... maybe GMO,s are evil!
Or Gene Manipulating our children & get their cannabinoid receptors altered to accept this GMO weed more readily. ^^
Maybe...
(sarcasm off)
Maybe...
(sarcasm off)
Well somehow with GMO science in it's youth stages the more harm than good comes to mind. Suppose you inserted fungi or animal based genes into the cannabis to increase yield, reduce flowering, drought resistance, what have you and it goes bad, makes the user suceptable to aquiring a nasty virus from your weed, or a nasty fungal infection hell it opens things up to a plethora of potential problems. Problems that once out, can never be undone, what do we do then?
For the sake of doing the minimal things you described, all of which can be made into a non issue with other grow techniques, why take the risk of doing great harm to not only the non GMO weed, but also to humans who grow and consume it?
The last thing we need is for our community to become guinea pigs for GMO's, the way most people are for crop GMO's now.
Science has way too many, "oh shit" moments with GMO's now and they are finding that they are indeed harmful for human consumption, but they needed 20 years of testing on the public to find this out.
Has Marijuana really got any better?
I personally think that cannabis potency has essentially already peaked - looking at well known, high potency 'worked' strains like Haze, Herijuana and Chem Dawg as examples - the youngest of these three still being over 20 years old already - I don't know if any of these three is any more potent, for example than Landraces available today such as Gypsys Thai Stick Sativa and ACEs Malawi.
It does seem however that your chances of encountering an outstanding cannabis example these days is far greater than in days past - once there were few options in what was available, now there is abundant choice and so poor quality strains get squeezed from the market. (Ironically ultimately serving to reduce choice as everything becomes based around a few well known strains.)
With potency becoming less of an issue to differentiate strains breeders have moved toward things like enhancing taste, colours, appearance, fragrance etc.
So has marijuana really got any better?
In terms of availablity of outstanding product? - yes, definately.
In terms of variety of effect? - I think we have moved toward generic highs and stones: very potent but little to differentiate one sativa from another, or one indica from another. (I think the market will ultimately dictate a move in the opposite direction in future).
In terms of flavour? - Yes. This was never bred for in the past and the fact it is now a selection criteria for some breeders and strains I believe validates my claim that potency has reached a plateau.
So overall? I think yes - but in small ways.
Nice topic!
JKD
I personally think that cannabis potency has essentially already peaked - looking at well known, high potency 'worked' strains like Haze, Herijuana and Chem Dawg as examples - the youngest of these three still being over 20 years old already - I don't know if any of these three is any more potent, for example than Landraces available today such as Gypsys Thai Stick Sativa and ACEs Malawi.
It does seem however that your chances of encountering an outstanding cannabis example these days is far greater than in days past - once there were few options in what was available, now there is abundant choice and so poor quality strains get squeezed from the market. (Ironically ultimately serving to reduce choice as everything becomes based around a few well known strains.)
With potency becoming less of an issue to differentiate strains breeders have moved toward things like enhancing taste, colours, appearance, fragrance etc.
So has marijuana really got any better?
In terms of availablity of outstanding product? - yes, definately.
In terms of variety of effect? - I think we have moved toward generic highs and stones: very potent but little to differentiate one sativa from another, or one indica from another. (I think the market will ultimately dictate a move in the opposite direction in future).
In terms of flavour? - Yes. This was never bred for in the past and the fact it is now a selection criteria for some breeders and strains I believe validates my claim that potency has reached a plateau.
So overall? I think yes - but in small ways.
Nice topic!
JKD
looking at the total amount of marijuana produced, Im sure mj has gotten better.. but like others have said, the incredible phenos have been there for thousands of years..
Engineering new fertilizers and methods of growing and processing have made it better.
not all scientific fact is recorded so its not accepted as fact, especially imo in biological science, meaning to say just because there weren't any scientitsts there doesn't mean there was nothing that took pplace that others couldn't notice as fact or true.
the changes that we are all talking about are obvious in nature.
ie. - a breeder not only needs mechanical tools but mainly observation skills as well in order to select descent traits of a strain that is being worked on.
ie. - if I grow out a pack of tomatoe seeds and see that there are a few plants that are not growing like the rest of the "beefsteak tomatoes" then you don't need anymore "science" than observation to tell that something is wrong. and here your choice is pull them and keep the rest of the plants going or go have it tested.
so if I have 10 seeds popped of one strain then I should see (for example) a consistent average height not a variation of height. ive got all plants in the same conditions but out of the 10 plants 4 of them start to flower early and of the 4 1 is a hermie. isn't it obvious that something is not right with those few plants? why do I need a lab for that?
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mukuku
Active member
all is on selection. so much multi hybrids on the market.
a lots of differents high and a lot of differents smokers too.
my best issue today is neville haze x something , SSDH x something, hazy sativa forever.
I tried more potents hybrids than haze like Zamal mango carrote from Isles of la réunion but the high keep me in a cold mood with not heat at mind, juste powefull experience of long lasting clear high with electric vibes. not my cup of tea...( try zamaldelica fron Ace seed and you'll know, not all the strain give that high try more phenos if not ) I've got an old pack from 2007 with the label "zamal killer" really the best hallucinogenic strain, you can't sleep for hours and want to do lot of things.
a lots of differents high and a lot of differents smokers too.
my best issue today is neville haze x something , SSDH x something, hazy sativa forever.
I tried more potents hybrids than haze like Zamal mango carrote from Isles of la réunion but the high keep me in a cold mood with not heat at mind, juste powefull experience of long lasting clear high with electric vibes. not my cup of tea...( try zamaldelica fron Ace seed and you'll know, not all the strain give that high try more phenos if not ) I've got an old pack from 2007 with the label "zamal killer" really the best hallucinogenic strain, you can't sleep for hours and want to do lot of things.
I wonder about this. Back in the 80's, people were developing strains that would grow well indoors, like skunk#1 and other indica/sativa hybrids. Pure sativa's were considered not suitable for growing in or outdoors outside their climate.
Nowadays skilled growers manage to finish pure equatorial sativa's indoors. It takes up to 20 weeks and yields less but the resulting product is in another league completely.
If the indoor growers back then had the knowledge and skill the growers now do, wouldn't there be more pure landrace/sativa growing?
Indica/sativa hybrids didn't make the plant better imo, it just made it more commercially interesting. The commercial aspect itsself is the reason it is now so popular.
very true in many ways also IMO Sprinkle....
Some folks think of some lines as classics or the orig cultivars...
20yrs isn't what makes them a grandparent which is whats seeming to be implied here,...in a nice way tho not a bad forced view...
for example and not trying to say anything or one is good or bad on this topic...its just talkin shop right folks...
what JKD posted is valid to allot of folk...but lets look at what makes up the lines he spoke on...
Lets look at the 3 strains mentioned...
Haze - super hyb of the earliest of Days...Stood well the Test of Time!...a true unique early make and loved "Hybrid" variety...
also the base for a huge amount of Cannabis hybridization as well...
Herijuana and ChemDawg....
These are only getting to that 20yr mark if that and they are not the Cultivars...these are the best progressive work of the folk who used the orig Cultivars..
ChemDawg is a mess of confusion far as lines go so Im going t avoid that cause theres younger folk out there that are sold on Chems being of OG origin..heh...when numerous folk have come forward to state those lines were based off of MSS/DNL...
anyway..to avoid all that crap....
Lets talk Herijuana....which is also a thick Hybrid...and what makes Herijuana so damn good?.....
But why are descripts similar yet not Identical on the Heritage?....look at it and it tells you why...
"Petrolia-Head Stash"......and what helped Petrolia in its vigor and yield issues?....Kentucky hybrid...
and that just 1 doc of Herijuana....but now look at Anothers ver of the Same line..
Do you see the paradox in this, and what is happening within the world of Cannabis now?......it should be rather clear...
if not try this break down
so say I wanted to make something out of 1 extreme plant but need proper genetic pools to work it from...
Notice that make up of Heri?....
See now if Petrolia was the 'Male"....why would there be Multiple Kentucky's?....
This IMO is the market playing the game....
Petrolia was the Mother line...the Bass line....the HeadStash used to make a new wicked lil hybrid later known as Herijuana...
How many folk do you see Isolating the Petrolia or Kentucky phenoms from Herijuana?....the should be but they don;t cause at this point its very Bl;ended..and IMO Woodhorse did a fantastic job with her...
Now apply this train of thought to Any variety....and teh whole world of Cannabis hybridization will expand greatly in every direction...Was all this work well done?...maybe not but thats not the point...Its How it was done and Why it was done...
and why folks like Clark, Hillig, and others still strive to prove and break ground in relations of regional varieties...whether by DNA genetic marker relation or other methods...
stuff like Thai stick is tricky to define...unless those Thai sticks were dipped in opiates its not gana be the same...heh...
and no one will ever grow a Thai that had the same effect those Vet thai sticks did cause they were laced with opiate...
but some strain LRaces like that Malawi, Haw's, Hindu or Mazar Kushs, Paki Kush or HP's...Affi ranges of Kushes, HPs and valley breeds....but also SoAmerican is a Huge influence as well...
IMO almost as strong as Afghan is in the entire population of variety avail today but so was SoAmerican back in the day...
Mexis, Lumbos, Pans, etc...
anyway...this is only a kind post and I mean it in a very kind way and only to show how it is all very relative...yet we must not forget to accredit and support the Original varieties...They are the Backbones still...
FOE20
Some folks think of some lines as classics or the orig cultivars...
20yrs isn't what makes them a grandparent which is whats seeming to be implied here,...in a nice way tho not a bad forced view...
for example and not trying to say anything or one is good or bad on this topic...its just talkin shop right folks...
what JKD posted is valid to allot of folk...but lets look at what makes up the lines he spoke on...
Lets look at the 3 strains mentioned...
Haze - super hyb of the earliest of Days...Stood well the Test of Time!...a true unique early make and loved "Hybrid" variety...
also the base for a huge amount of Cannabis hybridization as well...
Herijuana and ChemDawg....
These are only getting to that 20yr mark if that and they are not the Cultivars...these are the best progressive work of the folk who used the orig Cultivars..
ChemDawg is a mess of confusion far as lines go so Im going t avoid that cause theres younger folk out there that are sold on Chems being of OG origin..heh...when numerous folk have come forward to state those lines were based off of MSS/DNL...
anyway..to avoid all that crap....
Lets talk Herijuana....which is also a thick Hybrid...and what makes Herijuana so damn good?.....
But why are descripts similar yet not Identical on the Heritage?....look at it and it tells you why...
"Petrolia-Head Stash"......and what helped Petrolia in its vigor and yield issues?....Kentucky hybrid...
(woodhorse even claimed multiple phenoms in use durring the work)
and that just 1 doc of Herijuana....but now look at Anothers ver of the Same line..
Do you see the paradox in this, and what is happening within the world of Cannabis now?......it should be rather clear...
if not try this break down
so say I wanted to make something out of 1 extreme plant but need proper genetic pools to work it from...
Notice that make up of Heri?....
See now if Petrolia was the 'Male"....why would there be Multiple Kentucky's?....
This IMO is the market playing the game....
Petrolia was the Mother line...the Bass line....the HeadStash used to make a new wicked lil hybrid later known as Herijuana...
How many folk do you see Isolating the Petrolia or Kentucky phenoms from Herijuana?....the should be but they don;t cause at this point its very Bl;ended..and IMO Woodhorse did a fantastic job with her...
Now apply this train of thought to Any variety....and teh whole world of Cannabis hybridization will expand greatly in every direction...Was all this work well done?...maybe not but thats not the point...Its How it was done and Why it was done...
and why folks like Clark, Hillig, and others still strive to prove and break ground in relations of regional varieties...whether by DNA genetic marker relation or other methods...
stuff like Thai stick is tricky to define...unless those Thai sticks were dipped in opiates its not gana be the same...heh...
and no one will ever grow a Thai that had the same effect those Vet thai sticks did cause they were laced with opiate...
but some strain LRaces like that Malawi, Haw's, Hindu or Mazar Kushs, Paki Kush or HP's...Affi ranges of Kushes, HPs and valley breeds....but also SoAmerican is a Huge influence as well...
IMO almost as strong as Afghan is in the entire population of variety avail today but so was SoAmerican back in the day...
Mexis, Lumbos, Pans, etc...
anyway...this is only a kind post and I mean it in a very kind way and only to show how it is all very relative...yet we must not forget to accredit and support the Original varieties...They are the Backbones still...
FOE20
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D.C. Denali
Member
Corn, a.k.a. MAZE, was formerly, not edible, until someone fucked with it, all they did was cross it, but now you eat it, right? So they made it better, no?
Gastrikeman
New member
what can i say Same same but different you are correct-ish GoodyTwoShoes
be smokin since 69, and smoked a lot of thai stick back then, and it was nice..nice weed.. dipped in opium... i doubt it... or i'll put it this way... i never encountered it...
THC really hasn't changed. Why I find humor in "hash" being a bigger crime than marijuana. You can rip one hit of hash or 4 hits of bud and equal amounts of THC end up in your system.
Weed didn't change... in fact many of the old lines dissapeared and now only commercial strains are available in general.
It's just that the availability of average good weed is much higher. Back in the days only a few got their hands on their top range mexican highlands, colombain or any other top import weeds. Most was really low grade schwag and so traditionally, the analysis reported low levels of cannabinoids as well (which started the myth that weed nowadays is stronger than in the 70s).
Thanks to the modern breeding and growing techniques, now everyone can have access to great quality and reasonably cheap weed.
What has changed is the criteria on breeding. Now it's all about good performance weed, the fastest, most productive, most potent, most stinky... it became like with the cars, phones or TVs. A competition between the great brands and even dealers or dispensaries to sell the most hyped plants which will report more benefits to them!
But sadly this contributed as well to end with the diversity of cannabis all over the world and its traditional regions. Now everything looks, feels, smells and appears the same. The same shit they've been doing 40 years already but mixed and remixed again and again. I can believe how people is still getting hyped about new cuts found in old afgan, skunk and commercial hybrids that were always there for us! Yeah more frosty, stronger, bigger, faster or more stinky due to the magic and lottery of gentics but it's all the same and so it will be until all the breeders start to work in their own works providing fresh genes to the cannabis genepools and starting a real revolution. Sad thing is that most of this real breeders are forced to leave their projects due to the fierce market and demands of the average and uneducated grower/smoker.
So better?? no way, maybe more available and more commercial strains for the average smoker but definitely not better.
Unfortunately, nowadays even the elder rastaman in Blue Mountain would be smoking mediocre hybrids and shitty commercial weed, so now everyone can buy in their local dispensary or grow better plants at home.
This days it's even harder to find top notch conoisseur high grade like that old lambsbread, highland mexicans, pure africans and even a stinky pure kush line. Most have dissapeared and most of us will never be able even to try that or have access to the elite circles of growers and conoisseurs where it can be still found that kind of stuff.
Pretty sad... those were my 2 cents.
It's just that the availability of average good weed is much higher. Back in the days only a few got their hands on their top range mexican highlands, colombain or any other top import weeds. Most was really low grade schwag and so traditionally, the analysis reported low levels of cannabinoids as well (which started the myth that weed nowadays is stronger than in the 70s).
Thanks to the modern breeding and growing techniques, now everyone can have access to great quality and reasonably cheap weed.
What has changed is the criteria on breeding. Now it's all about good performance weed, the fastest, most productive, most potent, most stinky... it became like with the cars, phones or TVs. A competition between the great brands and even dealers or dispensaries to sell the most hyped plants which will report more benefits to them!
But sadly this contributed as well to end with the diversity of cannabis all over the world and its traditional regions. Now everything looks, feels, smells and appears the same. The same shit they've been doing 40 years already but mixed and remixed again and again. I can believe how people is still getting hyped about new cuts found in old afgan, skunk and commercial hybrids that were always there for us! Yeah more frosty, stronger, bigger, faster or more stinky due to the magic and lottery of gentics but it's all the same and so it will be until all the breeders start to work in their own works providing fresh genes to the cannabis genepools and starting a real revolution. Sad thing is that most of this real breeders are forced to leave their projects due to the fierce market and demands of the average and uneducated grower/smoker.
So better?? no way, maybe more available and more commercial strains for the average smoker but definitely not better.
Unfortunately, nowadays even the elder rastaman in Blue Mountain would be smoking mediocre hybrids and shitty commercial weed, so now everyone can buy in their local dispensary or grow better plants at home.
This days it's even harder to find top notch conoisseur high grade like that old lambsbread, highland mexicans, pure africans and even a stinky pure kush line. Most have dissapeared and most of us will never be able even to try that or have access to the elite circles of growers and conoisseurs where it can be still found that kind of stuff.
Pretty sad... those were my 2 cents.
to be strait bout it Zach...Im not a veteran myself..what I posted was a piece of info read about Thai stick back in "Nam" time...
Im not saying Thai can;t be a very wild ride or a exotic type compared to what we see on avr...
But no matter how you look at it ThaiStick is not a Line..
its a method of production...and that has never changed no matter who or when....Ive personally made Thai stick...its not hard to do and for those wispy buds that most old world thai prod it needed to be slightly pressed and "shaped"...to get rid of the lil buds or use them up...whens the last time you heard of Asian hash?...yet Afghan Hash has been the staple since who knows when..
Thai stick usually shown is with red string or somethin which looks very nicely packaged...I believe the old thai sticks didnt look quick so nice and perfect...but rather black, oily and would take ppl out of this world...Ive seen some old pressed weird cured Jamaican that was the closest to what I think laced ThaiStick may of been like..But it wasn't dipped like I was talking on..that was just something I read but it did have weight in how I viewed ThaiStick specially after growing quite a few Thai lines to find out theres not much like whats mentioned about Nam-Thai stick...
Viet Black was the closest I saw or tried that may of been that wild of a ride...We ran it from 18 up into 32wks...almost "flowering" for 6mo.......heh....but hope you understand I wasn't saying its not real, yet its not a Line...its a production tweek...
those asians are always a lil ahead of the game ya know..heh...
not sure I can pull up the info but Im sure it was published by 1 of these brilliant canna enthusiasts..
Herer
Clark
Hillig
Laurence cherniak
FOE20
