Has Marijuana really got any better?

[im me]

There are so many breeders out there now and so many strains that I can't keep track; but I was thinking today, are these new strains really any different or better than what we were smoking 15 years ago?
I think they are no different than the Skunk, NL, White Widow that I was growing 15 years ago.
Because really, those strains then had THC and CBD and the new strains have THC and CBD, it's just the same thing, nothing new is being created, just the names are changing, just re-inventing the wheel. It's not like some new drug with different chemicals is being created.
People might rave about Chemdogs and such and say it's really strong because it puts you on your ass; but the first grow I did years ago was some bagseed that looked like a wild Afghani, and people were asking me if I had put anything in it, because it really knocked you on your ass.
It's maybe that all the modern breeding is bullshit and hype, just smoke and mirrors, the names and hype change but the product is still basically the same.
Maybe we just need about five strains to choose from; a pure sative and a pure indica and then a few in between; that would cover all bases.

i understand your point of view and respect it so many strains are the same strain just different name but that being said you're wrong. breeding is all about combining the best traits of two plants and stabilizing the results we have merely scratched the surface of what cannabis is capable of. good breeders are rare but the good ones out there are producing amazing strains.

 

[D's]

Im me
"stabilizing" being the key word here. I just received a new pheno of "pineapple whatever" from my uncle. Not knowing anything about it other than running a micro version and flavor and stone. If its too weak or unstable time will tell and improvements can be made. Kinda like saying people in general are getting more beautiful which is true after generations or seems that way at least. Nature is still picking who's eyes/nose though, maybe some lab somewhere, j/k. So I don't know really just my .02. Can't beat nature just apply it. Btw I run 5 main strains as well, and room to spare for fun. And another expansion in the works for more fun. Peace. D's

 

[Fluffy Clouds]

im growing from mid 90s and nowadays its much better... haze is still excellent, same for blueberry.. and after i grew casey jones, chemdogsourdiesel, sfv og kush hybrid etc. i will never get back to nlskunks and superskunks i used to grow, never..

 

[bombadil.360]

non-stable poly-hybrids cannot be considered 'strains/cultivars' to begin with...

there may be tons of new crosses and all, but they do not qualify to be called strains/cultivars; specially since a really high % of these new crosses are made with a really low parental number, usually one mom and one dad...

tons of new crosses? sure, tons of new strains/cultivars? not at all.

 

[FOE20]

some day I'll be telling my grandkids: "yes Johnny, back in my day, there used to be both MALES and FEMALES"
"really Grandpa?"
"Yes junior"
"you mean not all girls had balls? Wow! neato!"

hahah...nice MrDank!....to funny yet to true eh?....

Cultivars are still avail...I do know that much...some folk keep libraries for this reason....were not all stuck with buying seed, thats just a option the cannabis scene gave us..
theres a bunch of good and bad....Good genetics....and not so great growers...
almost to many varieties to say over all....cause then its broken down to style and method after variety is chosen...
but yea...theres still some great old herb around..and allot of the new stuff is pretty damn good..
the diff is....when you breed out these new selections you'll note their not quite the same..
Personally I feel there were to many years of Selecting for Performance and not over all Quality....this has allot of bearing on the entire scene...
Quality first,...then improve yield and skill level...
Now its grow a plant....was it great?...nope...pitch it and move on...is that fair?....nope...pitch it and move on...
Follow the breeders that stuck with a Line...follow the Line that sells itself...
Dont use the net for ref....its just 1 view....trust your gut and the Plants first IMO...
now a days I love Indicas and Sativas...but then even well mixed varieties I dig allot!....its all Pot....and that is what makes it groovy....keep rollin
FOE20

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

There are so many breeders out there now and so many strains that I can't keep track; but I was thinking today, are these new strains really any different or better than what we were smoking 15 years ago?
I think they are no different than the Skunk, NL, White Widow that I was growing 15 years ago.
Because really, those strains then had THC and CBD and the new strains have THC and CBD, it's just the same thing, nothing new is being created, just the names are changing, just re-inventing the wheel. It's not like some new drug with different chemicals is being created.
People might rave about Chemdogs and such and say it's really strong because it puts you on your ass; but the first grow I did years ago was some bagseed that looked like a wild Afghani, and people were asking me if I had put anything in it, because it really knocked you on your ass.
It's maybe that all the modern breeding is bullshit and hype, just smoke and mirrors, the names and hype change but the product is still basically the same.
Maybe we just need about five strains to choose from; a pure sative and a pure indica and then a few in between; that would cover all bases.

IMO what has changed is the stability of genetics. I remember years ago I would here about cats on overgrow talk about getting so excited when they found a seed of their favorite strains and pretty much considered a seeded bag to be the gift that keeps on giving.

nowadays for the past 5-6yrs if you find a seed in a bag of some dank your lucky if it doesn't grow three legs/arms climbs out of your container/medium, spawn thousands of hermie offspring and try to eat you alive.

there are a lot of good strains out there but when ppl start that "ive got this pheno" , "well ive got this pheno", "my pheno is more this way" and blah blah blah, to me that just sounds like the genetics aren't stable to begin with stable genetics are going to yield stable plants time and time again.

only strain that I ever grew that was stable was the SSH seeds that were gifted me. after so many hours of searching on here trying to find out if they may have come from either GHS or MRN, every pic from GHS was stable and looked exactly like the plants that I grew so for me the stability of what I saw was enough for me.

but these last beans I got from peakseedsbc.com were all over the fuckin place! out of 5 NL seeds popped I had atleast 4 different plants and stable genetics wont have that happen. some were "indica-ish" while others were "satvia-ish". because of so much having changed those "ish" words are accepted terminology in the grow world now and its crazy and shouldn't be.

 

[FOE20]

but these last beans I got from peakseedsbc.com were all over the fuckin place! out of 5 NL seeds popped I had atleast 4 different plants and stable genetics wont have that happen. some were "indica-ish" while others were "satvia-ish". because of so much having changed those "ish" words are accepted terminology in the grow world now and its crazy and shouldn't be.

yikes...well thanks for the heads up man....good input IMO...
least the Sensi NL lines are consistent Indica doms...

funniest part tho..well not so funny...
Is We are the Customer....
We buy them, grow them, sometimes keep them..
but when the Breeder/Work is questioned, Were now always Wrong....heh....
The Customer is Right clause here has no bearing..and it should..
and why as I start my work for Sagar we'll have a diff approach to all of this.. I just domn;t want to be libal for the work..I want to support it as it always should be since its asking for others to invest in it on faith...
so yea something is very wrong here as well...and has been for a while....live and learn and hopefully the Breeder you invest in isnt full of shit...and I would/do put them to the test before that investment personally...keep rollin
FOE20

 

[TLoft13]

Don't forget that outdoor growers these days are growing the same plants as you are growing indoors; outdoors growers don't grow different strains.
When I was lurking here recently I saw someone had posted a picture of an outdoor AK47, and yet most people would claim that AK47 was an indoor plant, or "hydro", and yet grown outdoors it was a monster with very big buds.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

I think the average grower is getting better, weed is prettier these days and many more growers out there these days so much higher supply of really good product.

How can you say genetics are better today when much of what is popular consists of genetics that are 15-20 years old or more. A few examples are original hazes, some of the most popular haze hybrids, NL's, NL hybrids, blueberries, anything with skunk, Sour Diesel, the Chem Clones are all over 15 yrs. I don't need to list every example you get the idea.

A small group of strains makes up most of today's modern hybrids. I actually think in a few years we are going to be in a real boring place as everyone these days is working the same strains and many of them are rehashing the same genetic combinations as the next guy, breeding for short flowering times and lots of leaf resin while other quality traits take a back seat.

The real difference between now and then is today people breed from what is available on the shelf but back in the 70's breeders had to go out and hoof it thru Afghanistan and Mexico etc collect some seeds, grow a shit load of them and breed and build what we take for granted today.

 

[Tonygreen]

I fear the future of the cannabis gene pool. So many "breeders" and closet hacks are using hermie plant as their parent stock, and many other are doing the female x female thing. I can not see that being a positive thing as far as the future goes

some day I'll be telling my grandkids: "yes Johnny, back in my day, there used to be both MALES and FEMALES"

"really Grandpa?"

"Yes junior"

"you mean not all girls had balls? Wow! neato!"

Cannabis is not fully male or female, every plant has the genes to hermie, you can get any cannabis plant to express male sex.
Mother nature made it that way.

Regarding female to female crosses, it is another way to recombine genes, certainly not the end of cannabis as we know it.

No offense but there is no science in this thread yet, just a little fear mongering and misinformation. Not much science in this thread tbh to back up any claims made so far.

 

[offthehook]

Ah well it's going somewhere. How's that for science, lol.

 

[growhi]

i wonder how many real breeders they actually are out there working on new lines !!

and by that i mean real dj short esk breeding ! ............. massive populations on the f2 cross and looking for something new and different from anything they have seen before !!

 

[growhi]

like when my heads full of sativa like now , i sit and ponder whether anyone is actually growing out massive seed populations anymore , and what would you actually find if you did a massive f2 seed run on something as diverse as a china indica , to a Columbian sativa or example and other combinations !!!

i believe we have only scratched the surface , i think if/when big business takes over and can fund massive breeding programs and research sky is the limit

 

[sdd420]

For any of us we know its not better now only faster the Thai sticks the Acapulco gold the panama red even the afghani all undiluted lines that kicked ass its out there thank god still if you look you will find more worked lines much faster than 12-14 weeks too

 

[siftedunity]

Cannabis is not fully male or female, every plant has the genes to hermie, you can get any cannabis plant to express male sex.
Mother nature made it that way.

theres a big difference between being two sexes and producing male pollen as a last chance survival method. otherwise self pollenation wouldnt create female only seeds- the females dont have a males genetic imput to create male ofspring. so a female is genetically female just with herm tendances.


apart from that i disagree with the op and agree with everyone else.

 

[xmobotx]

i like to think ancient man must have made selections

so to say 'better than ever' ~maybe / maybe not

 

[Kcar]

Most inbred lines weren't done in parallel and crossed, to ease inbreeding depression.

Can you expound on that, a little more?

 

[offthehook]

It's very clear what Nunsacred wrote there Kcar. Wich part is it that you don't understand?

 

[offthehook]

He said it in here already.

I think it's true that for outdoor growers,
the current stock is no better than the old skunk#1 lines from the 1980s
or many of the lovely mexican lines pre-dating that.

I think it's more about direction than anything else.

Meaning this:
if breeders have the same aim and they stay true to it
instead of getting distracted by surprises and changing their growstyle/traits of selection
if they continue selecting with the same outcome/direction in mind,
then their stock will be 'better', even and especially if
they outcross and make many lines etc to keep the inbreeding depression low.

The vast majority of seeds out there
come from parents selected almost at random because the group is small.
Many lines have no consistent direction in the selection through generations.
Most inbred lines weren't done in parallel and crossed, to ease inbreeding depression.

For me,
the only way to improve on the classic original skunk#1 from the 1980s,
is to do exactly the same strategy for longer or on a bigger scale.

i.e. More growers all focussed on the same goal(s)/traits
meeting annually with the central breeder(s) who compare and share back out the
seed lines chosen with the same trait importance as before.
In other words, we need to co-ordinate our efforts through a central team in order
to reach a common direction.
Perhaps in the past when we were all hunter gatherers learning to farm crops
we had that kind of co-ordination but now I'm afraid we don't all agree about
which traits are most important.


growhi, you may be right, but can you please not bring human eugenics into plant breeding threads? They're not comparable on many levels so don't stir that shit up just for a simple example.

It means you gotto inbreed the same strain but on several different plots while keeping the genetic lines from each plot separate for over as many generations possible.

After crossing these separate inbred lines you will get seeds with F1 hybrid vigor and uniformity for this strain and are the ones most sought after for commercial markets.

If you were to inbreed on one plot only, after a while the allover performence of your strain will become less as when you'd cross them out to seperate lines of their peers.

 

[bajangreen]

I want people to remember this is a plant, she was here from the beginning, she has made us her slaves, and she will continue to adapt.