HL45.PPK.1.0 17lightsx2 Sealed with Co2

[delta9nxs]

Everytime I use MH lamps I seem to get heat stress/hot spots.. even several feet away from a 1k halide.

?? What gives ?? Leave temp doesnt seem to get too hot...almost just as if they cant take the spectrum or UVs or something well.

I mean.. I'll still get noticeable scorching several feet away whereas the HPS I can put within ~1 Ft.

they run hotter plus the mh bulb shape creates focal points. i think if you kept the bulb moving you could avoid the burn while keeping them closer.

btw, i'm aware of your ppk grow and am heading over there soon. thank you!

 

[delta9nxs]

My guess it the bulb you tried emits alot of light in the infared spectrum. Metal halide in general emit more heat than a hps because of this. With a good quality MH bulb this is much less of an issue, but it seems there are few good ones out there. Back when I used 1000w'ers, I bought cheap philips or maybe sylvania MH's that worked very well. Sorry I don't remember the model, that was many years ago. Came from the hydro shop, but they weren't marketed for horticulture use. It's also possible, but highly unlikely, something happened to the UV coating and that bulb was burning your leaves with UV light.

HL, plants are looking heathly as a horse . No suprise at all to me about the wide top buckets working much better for ya. Tom hill explained this concept to me years ago, relative to outdoor plants of course . It's based on solid root science, and as you can see it works . If you are interested in learning more on the science aspect, I bet tom would give you a moment or three of his time. Real cool cat, and VERY knowledgeble.

howdy, the papers i read emphasized increased root zone periphery instead of increased volume as the reason for increased aerial mass.

as if the plant is sensing boundaries for it's future resource needs. it must produce balanced structure to survive to seed.

i think the growing root tips that meet these boundaries are sending hormonal signals to control growth so that the plant does not outgrow it's resources and die before it's mission is complete.

the math was surprising to me as it had never occurred to me that two containers with the same volume could have different surface areas. just one of those things you don't think of much until you need to grow a bunch of weed.

but we can take two containers, one a five gal bucket shape, made into a perfect cylinder for math ease, which is approx 10.25" diameter and 14" high. this container has a total peripheral area of approx 615 sq in.

the second container, an imaginary one for comparison purposes, is 16" in diameter but only 6" high. it has a total peripheral surface area of 741 sq in.

so we have, with identical volume, an increase of peripheral surface area of approx 17%.

what if you can grow a 17% larger yielding plant just by changing container shapes?

talk about a cheap gain!

the main reason i went with the 6" deep containers was several research papers showed the o2 content to be highest in that layer of soil.

so far, in my current grow, and hl's here, we are seeing the results for sure.

 

[farmari]

howdy, the papers i read emphasized increased root zone periphery instead of increased volume as the reason for increased aerial mass.

as if the plant is sensing boundaries for it's future resource needs. it must produce balanced structure to survive to seed.

i think the growing root tips that meet these boundaries are sending hormonal signals to control growth so that the plant does not outgrow it's resources and die before it's mission is complete.

the math was surprising to me as it had never occurred to me that two containers with the same volume could have different surface areas. just one of those things you don't think of much until you need to grow a bunch of weed.

but we can take two containers, one a five gal bucket shape, made into a perfect cylinder for math ease, which is approx 10.25" diameter and 14" high. this container has a total peripheral area of approx 615 sq in.

the second container, an imaginary one for comparison purposes, is 16" in diameter but only 6" high. it has a total surface peripheral surface area of 741 sq in.

so we have, with identical volume, an increase of peripheral surface area of approx 17%.

what if you can grow a 17% larger yielding plant just by changing container shapes?

talk about a cheap gain!

the main reason i went with the 6" deep containers was several research papers showed the o2 content to be highest in that layer of soil.

so far, in my current grow, and hl's here, we are seeing the results for sure.

I'm just learning about PPKs... does having a wide container change the requirements for a proper pulse feed? The previous interpretation I had of PPKs was that a taller container was better as the pulse feed could more easily flood the medium and force the air out of the medium. (which is then replaced by fresh air as it drains)

 

[high life 45]

HL45.PPK.1.0 17lightsx2 Sealed with Co2




Just a peek of whats going on.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

so do you leave the lights so high up above the plants rather than deep down into the jungle?

 

[bobblehead]

Holy shit dude.... You're gonna have to cover your body in crisco before you go in there in a few weeks so you don't get stuck to all the fat sticky colas that are gonna be hanging around.

 

[who dat is]

It's looking so proper in there. Can't wait to see these monsters flowering.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Daaaamn son...

Hard to believe there are cages hiding in there.


D9 mentions that he secures his lower container to his wooden caddy for stability concerns. I believe you said yours were pretty good... if you didnt have the cage around then and were just using yo-yos, etc to secure branches from the ceiling like I do, do you think you'd have to worry about the whole module/plant getting tippy?

With the cage plant/pot support seems pretty stable. I might be asking the same questions as I have previously, but do you secure your top pot to the lower pot in any way? I'm like D9s new suggestion of multiple tailpipes.. in a triangular pattern.. almost like feet for the upper container to give it superior support.

 

[silver hawaiian]

Holy christing A

 

[delta9nxs]

I'm just learning about PPKs... does having a wide container change the requirements for a proper pulse feed? The previous interpretation I had of PPKs was that a taller container was better as the pulse feed could more easily flood the medium and force the air out of the medium. (which is then replaced by fresh air as it drains)

hi, farmari! you bring up a good point that i've been meaning to discuss.

you are referring to the "plunger effect" and the distinction is that if you are pulsing lightly you are better off with a taller shape unless you can get almost unattainable dispersion at the surface. the only way i can think of to achieve this right would be with a spray apparatus of some kind. something that shoots a uniform pattern onto the surface. very hard to do. shower nozzle or something.

with these new wide ride containers i think the saturation pulse is the way to go. then there is no doubt that a total wetting has occurred. no possibility of channeling.

i still think there are valid reasons for setting up a lightly pulsing device on thin, tall tubes. energy efficiency for one if you were restricted by pump size or had to deal with a large number of sites.

also, not everyone has the same resources and some may have to start on a budget and will have to start with less capability. it's all ok.

 

[hotboxes]

@ Davethenewbie-I think that is just the angle he his taking the picture Dave. I can tell the lights are about a quarter of the way down into the tops of the plants.

 

[hotboxes]

hi, farmari! you bring up a good point that i've been meaning to discuss.

you are referring to the "plunger effect" and the distinction is that if you are pulsing lightly you are better off with a taller shape unless you can get almost unattainable dispersion at the surface. the only way i can think of to achieve this right would be with a spray apparatus of some kind. something that shoots a uniform pattern onto the surface. very hard to do. shower nozzle or something.

with these new wide ride containers i think the saturation pulse is the way to go. then there is no doubt that a total wetting has occurred. no possibility of channeling.

i still think there are valid reasons for setting up a lightly pulsing device on thin, tall tubes. energy efficiency for one if you were restricted by pump size or had to deal with a large number of sites.

also, not everyone has the same resources and some may have to start on a budget and will have to start with less capability. it's all ok.

D9 have you thought about maybe using 1/2" ID tubing in like a loop around the stalk of the plant and maybe straight barbs into the line then into the medium the amount of water you could administer at any given time might give you more of the vacuum effect your looking for. Sorry if you have already tried this.

 

[farmari]

hi, farmari! you bring up a good point that i've been meaning to discuss.

you are referring to the "plunger effect" and the distinction is that if you are pulsing lightly you are better off with a taller shape unless you can get almost unattainable dispersion at the surface. the only way i can think of to achieve this right would be with a spray apparatus of some kind. something that shoots a uniform pattern onto the surface. very hard to do. shower nozzle or something.

with these new wide ride containers i think the saturation pulse is the way to go. then there is no doubt that a total wetting has occurred. no possibility of channeling.

i still think there are valid reasons for setting up a lightly pulsing device on thin, tall tubes. energy efficiency for one if you were restricted by pump size or had to deal with a large number of sites.

also, not everyone has the same resources and some may have to start on a budget and will have to start with less capability. it's all ok.

Interesting. Am I interpreting right to say that as long as the pulse can flood the medium faster than it can drain, the GPH is high enough? As the water level flooding up displaces the gasses just as well as a pool draining downward.

I feel like I ask silly questions but it takes me a while to wrap my head around some of the brilliant ideas around here. I've learned a lot from your posts and for that I thank you sir! That goes to high life 45 and many others as well (apologies if I'm disrupting your thread!)

I'll probably be starting out with 8-12 sites, 4-5sq ft per plant, (horizontal lighting, 300-600w per plant... taking a possibly temporary break from vert after tree madness, LOL) and have at least one 320gph pump to use. Am thinking of using 1.5-3gal of coco per bucket, 2gal or cut 5gal buckets.

Most all my parts available were previously used for RDWC. (buckets, uniseals, pvc, 1/2" tubing, etc) I haven't used 1/4" feed lines before but I guess I'll just have to set things up and see what the pump can do, then just add more GPH power if needed.

 

[high life 45]

HL45.PPK.1.0 17lightsx2 Sealed with Co2

so do you leave the lights so high up above the plants rather than deep down into the jungle?

I am only still in the second week of flower. As you can see its jam packed in there. I do have room to grow up, not any room to grow out. The lights will be dropped into the heart of the Jumanji in due time.

My nets down till Monday so I have limited access.

 

[high life 45]

HL45.PPK.1.0 17lightsx2 Sealed with Co2

Holy shit dude.... You're gonna have to cover your body in crisco before you go in there in a few weeks so you don't get stuck to all the fat sticky colas that are gonna be hanging around.

Every other time I go in the room I'm blown away at how much they have grown.

The plants grew differently in the new top bucket.

They grow wide and then grow up.

I never thought that they would end up almost 7' tall. In fact my gro bro seemed to think that they wouldnt be as big as last time when I told him it was time to flip. I saw how wide they were and knew that I had to flip immediately.

When are you gonna try one of these plant killers? I know that you were apprehensive to the recirculating aspect of it. Butyohd smart, You could easily modify it to DTW so you could flush for the last few weeks if you wanted.

 

[high life 45]

HL45.PPK.1.0 17lightsx2 Sealed with Co2

Daaaamn son...

Hard to believe there are cages hiding in there.


D9 mentions that he secures his lower container to his wooden caddy for stability concerns. I believe you said yours were pretty good... if you didnt have the cage around then and were just using yo-yos, etc to secure branches from the ceiling like I do, do you think you'd have to worry about the whole module/plant getting tippy?

With the cage plant/pot support seems pretty stable. I might be asking the same questions as I have previously, but do you secure your top pot to the lower pot in any way? I'm like D9s new suggestion of multiple tailpipes.. in a triangular pattern.. almost like feet for the upper container to give it superior support.

Yoyos will work fine. Its really sturdy and I wouldn't worry about tipping over with our lighting set ups. D9s is different with his lights in the center of the room and his girls wanting to grow TOWARDS the light. With the majority of his plant mass orientated on one "side" of the top bucket, the plants center of gravity is not well balanced like a tree. Even my plants on the ends have a rounded shrublike appearance.

 

[DHF]

Gotta step up and say the next plant I run fer some "Headies fer Freadies`ll" be a plant murderin bitch from Hell setup with all the bells and whistles needed to do the deed........and why ?........

Cuz I have to....and......The ONLY setup I NEVER understood through all due indications from all I know that`s "holy" concerning fast hydro setups , and yet here ya`ll is/are and hoonin......and proof positive that.........

If yas don`t grow yas wither......Learnin is earnin.....bet on it....and ... all that profound bullshit that don`t mean anything if yas don`t get it........and most don`t....but.......

This shit`s breakin "new ground" and I welcome it wholeheartedly.........

Peace.....DHF..........

 

[high life 45]

HL45.PPK.1.0 17lightsx2 Sealed with Co2

No worries about the ppk discussion guys! I'm all for it! Im sure there are many lurkers out there who are wondering the same thing. Plus it's a relief knowing that the plants shit out d9 at night after eating him lights on.

In my understanding the ppk is more of an equation than a specific system.
However there are specific variables.
Some of them are: medium,handwatering or pulse duration or saturation, container size.

I think you could make a beer cup sized ppk all the way to an Olympic sized pool ppk. I dream and brainstorm about ppk beds often.

Just my dos pesos.

HL45

 

[bobblehead]

I was just telling FF about how my system is basically a DTW PPK. There's nute solution sitting under my bags, but my bags aren't sitting in the nute solution. Lava rock acts as a wick... I have a shallow air gap and lots of rocks in contact with the bottom of the bag.

I've been reading a lot of other threads though... From the guys running 10-100's of lights to see how they're doing things... And I see a lot of home made coco beds. Then you have this D9 fellow raving about surface area and wider containers.... I'm thinking PPK trough/beds are the way to go. I'm skeptical about recirculating nutes... But I'll give it a go one of these days... In one room. I'm just trying to get my finances straight right now before I start spending a bunch of money.

 

[delta9nxs]

D9 have you thought about maybe using 1/2" ID tubing in like a loop around the stalk of the plant and maybe straight barbs into the line then into the medium the amount of water you could administer at any given time might give you more of the vacuum effect your looking for. Sorry if you have already tried this.

i tried some halos and didn't like them. they put a lot of restriction on the pump.