Are big facilities going to put basement grower at unemployment?

[HempKat]

If you think that methanol is the true reason that distilling is illegal then I've taken it upon myself to enlighten you.

While it is true that methanol is deadly, it's easily seperated as it's lighter than ethanol and therefore is distilled first. This separation is called "heads" in the industry.

Any distiller knows this as it's common knowledge.

The reason distilling is illegal is because it's avoiding high taxes that pockets like to keep.

Marijuana wasn't outlawed because dope smoking jazz crazed negroes rape white women either.

Homebrewing wasn't legal until the seventies by the by.

Maybe home brewing wasn't legal until the 70's but it didn't stay that way so clearly the government doesn't kowtow to the corporations quite like you think they'll do with marijuana. Perhaps home brewing wasn't made legal until the 70's because it wasn't happening on a big enough scale to worry about legality one way or another. I know in the 60's I wasn't hearing a bunch of news stories about cops raiding someone's home because they tried to brew up a little of their own beer rather then buy it.

As for hard liquor obviously distillers know the language of their business and they also know the ways to do it correctly but distillers aren't who we are talking about making liqour at home for personal consumption. I've never heard of anyone saying, "You know what I'm not happy with the quality of the liquor I buy or the taxes I pay on it. So much so in fact I'm going to set up my own still and make my own." I seriously doubt if someone did the feds would rush in to bust them just to stop from losing the little bit of taxes they would lose if someone did distill for personal consumption. What you do and did hear about though were people seeing an opportunity to make money buy distilling their own liquor and undercutting the competition by selling without all the taxes or the overhead of safety/quality regulations and in rare cases you did hear stories of people being harmed by such unregulated spirits.

People who grow their own weed now can do so fairly safely if they keep it low key and practice some sensible precautions to not be detected. The people that get busted are mostly those who not only grow but also distribute it because 99.9% of them don't care who they sell to as long as they get their asking price. Beyond people that distribute the only people that get busted are the ones that are careless. If the government were so hellbent on preventing marijuana from being grown they would do alot more to detect it then they do now. Sure in some places they fly around with their special cameras in helicoptors but only in areas where they see that home grown weed is being sold on the street.

 

[HempKat]

The first thing you should do is quit painting Monsanto as a saint.



PS I think that would be a great topic for the cannabis legislation forum.

Nobody is saying Monsanto is a saint what is being said is that they are just like any other big business and they only get away with what they are allowed to get away with. Either because the masses want what they offer and are willing to make concessions to get it or because they have a cynical jaded view of the system and so just don't even attempt, thereby allowing apathy to dictate their fate.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Maybe home brewing wasn't legal until the 70's but it didn't stay that way so clearly the government doesn't kowtow to the corporations quite like you think they'll do with marijuana.

The government certainly kowtows to corporations.

After Budweiser dominated who cares who fought over the scraps.

Home brewers can't unlimitedly brew either. I wonder why?

I've never heard of anyone saying, "You know what I'm not happy with the quality of the liquor I buy or the taxes I pay on it. So much so in fact I'm going to set up my own still and make my own." I seriously doubt if someone did the feds would rush in to bust them just to stop from losing the little bit of taxes they would lose if someone did distill for personal consumption.

What you doubt I find probable.

I know people get busted for distilling and I'm pretty sure they decided at some point to do it for a reason.

People who grow their own weed now can do so fairly safely if they keep it low key and practice some sensible precautions to not be detected. The people that get busted are mostly those who not only grow but also distribute it because 99.9% of them don't care who they sell to as long as they get their asking price. Beyond people that distribute the only people that get busted are the ones that are careless. If the government were so hellbent on preventing marijuana from being grown they would do alot more to detect it then they do now. Sure in some places they fly around with their special cameras in helicoptors but only in areas where they see that home grown weed is being sold on the street.

I really disagree with you here.

I think you don't realize how motivated law enforcement is to fill their prisons.

So the only people who get arrested either deserve it or are careless?

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Nobody is saying Monsanto is a saint what is being said is that they are just like any other big business and they only get away with what they are allowed to get away with. Either because the masses want what they offer and are willing to make concessions to get it or because they have a cynical jaded view of the system and so just don't even attempt, thereby allowing apathy to dictate their fate.

Or the masses don't have a choice and have accidentally created a beast that leaves them with no options.

Hmm I guess I'll have Soylent Green... or maybe the Soylent Green...

Or I'll just grow my own Soyless Green until it's totally corrupted by patented genes.

You could argue that we shouldn't buy their products but that in itself is almost impossible unless you have a ton of money and import your food.

Monsanto is so well funded and ingrained in our joke of an agricultural industry there isn't any wiggle room.

Be assimilated.

 

[krunchbubble]

I've never heard of anyone saying, "You know what I'm not happy with the quality of the liquor I buy or the taxes I pay on it. So much so in fact I'm going to set up my own still and make my own."

If people really knew what real liquor tastes like, they would...

$33 produces over 2 gallons of 190+ proof of the best Vodka you ever had...

 

[HempKat]

The government certainly kowtows to corporations.

I didn't say they don't kowtow, I said they don't kowtow quite like you seem to think they do. If it was the way you think and corporations were so eager to control it then weed would be legal and the corporations growing it.

After Budweiser dominated who cares who fought over the scraps.

Budweiser was hardly the first major brewery in the US. They might have been the biggest after prohibition but I doubt it.

Home brewers can't unlimitedly brew either. I wonder why?

Maybe because they're allowed 100 gallons per adult in the household and the government feels any more then that shows intention to distribute?

What you doubt I find probable.

In other words we're both making assumptions and depending heavily on speculation?

I know people get busted for distilling and I'm pretty sure they decided at some point to do it for a reason.

Obviously they did it for a reason nobody undertakes something like that for no particular reason. You skip a stone across a pond for no particular reason but you don't take up building and operating a still for no reason. I'm guessing that the likelihood is they planned to distribute. If not, well it was still illegal, did they take precautions to hide their distilling operations? Or did they do it in the open where law enforcement could see it and say "Hey, that's illegal, you're under arrest"?

I really disagree with you here.

I think you don't realize how motivated law enforcement is to fill their prisons.

So the only people who get arrested either deserve it or are careless?

So, just because you disagree doesn't mean you are right or that I am wrong. If law enforcement is so hellbent on filling prisons then how come I see so many people getting probation for possession or being sent to rehabs? How come I've seen cops just bump out small amounts of weed and let people go with a warning? Maybe it's just in your area that things are that way and perhaps you shouldn't try to use your limited view as a blanket statement? I know some places are harder on marijuana then others, it's been that way my entire life of 50+ years. As for who gets arrested well I never said anyone deserved to get arrested for growing or selling pot so I'd appreciate you not trying to make it sound like I did. I'm simply making the observation that law enforcement seems more focused on those trying to distribute. Sure they'll bust someone who grows for themselves and who also vents their unfilter grow room air outside, that would be the careless I referenced. Since it is currently illegal to grow you can't just flaunt your disregard of the law if you expect to maintain your freedom. The point I'm making though is if they are as hellbent as you seem to think then how come they aren't doing more to try to find home grows where people grow for themselves? I mean if it was such an important issue and their priority was to fill prisons why aren't they getting search warrants for each and every house that uses more then what is thought to be the typical amount of electricity?

 

[HempKat]

Or the masses don't have a choice and have accidentally created a beast that leaves them with no options.

Hmm I guess I'll have Soylent Green... or maybe the Soylent Green...

Or I'll just grow my own Soyless Green until it's totally corrupted by patented genes.

You could argue that we shouldn't buy their products but that in itself is almost impossible unless you have a ton of money and import your food.

Monsanto is so well funded and ingrained in our joke of an agricultural industry there isn't any wiggle room.

Be assimilated.

Again all speculation when it comes to marijuana. I wonder if Monsanto got that way because there weren't a whole slew of equally well funded and influential corporations trying to control agriculture at the time and by the time they realized how much control they had it was too late? Legalized marijuana will impact far more then food and textiles. It will change the way people self medicate and so all the breweries, distilleries, tobacco companies and pharmacuetical companies will want in. Or do you really think they just sit back again and let Monsanto dominate?

 

[amannamedtruth]

I think it's pretty clear we won't see legalization happen under Obama, afterall he has a legacy to look after and clearly he doesn't want to be remembered as the President that freed the weed.

IDK, sounds like and awesome legacy.

 

[HempKat]

If people really knew what real liquor tastes like, they would...

$33 produces over 2 gallons of 190+ proof of the best Vodka you ever had...

I'm guessing that's just the cost of the ingredients and not what it takes to set up, fuel and secure the still from law enforcement?

I could say it only costs around $500 to grow a pound of pot in my basement but that's only factoring in the seeds, soil, ferts and electricity. When I factor in building a proper grow space, lights, fans and all the other equipment to do it right the price gets closer to $3000. A cost of $3000 to start up is enough to stop alot of people from growing even if they know the weed would be better then what they can find on the streets.

 

[HempKat]

IDK, sounds like and awesome legacy.

Yes but unfortunately you aren't Obama.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I didn't say they don't kowtow, I said they don't kowtow quite like you seem to think they do. If it was the way you think and corporations were so eager to control it then weed would be legal and the corporations growing it.

How is it that I seem to think that they kowtow? Maybe this is a ripe topic.

Is it possible that some corporations kowtow not only to government but also to government institutions?
I'm sure that cops, cop dogs, prisons, and prison guards have no intrest in cannabis convictions.

Budweiser was hardly the first major brewery in the US. They might have been the biggest after prohibition but I doubt it.

You may want to do your math. I do mine.

Maybe because they're allowed 100 gallons per adult in the household and the government feels any more then that shows intention to distribute?

Maybe. Maybe you still think that moonshine is illegal due to methanol.

In other words we're both making assumptions and depending heavily on speculation?

Except one of us is using speculation NOT based on history...

Obviously they did it for a reason nobody undertakes something like that for no particular reason. You skip a stone across a pond for no particular reason but you don't take up building and operating a still for no reason.

Hmm.... I remember saying that earlier. Is it wrong for a grower to distribute? Maybe you have forgotten where you are.

I'm guessing that the likelihood is they planned to distribute. If not, well it was still illegal, did they take precautions to hide their distilling operations? Or did they do it in the open where law enforcement could see it and say "Hey, that's illegal, you're under arrest"?

Perhaps you've not read what I've written... It's more than probable...

I think that growing our own will be equal to the heroes making shine in the hills to this very day, regardless of what I warn may be taken as "legalization".

I really believe you have totally misunderstood my intent and ignored my statements.

So, just because you disagree doesn't mean you are right or that I am wrong.

As long as you see it that way.

It also means you aren't right and I'm still not wrong.

I really hope you get that.

If law enforcement is so hellbent on filling prisons then how come I see so many people getting probation for possession or being sent to rehabs? How come I've seen cops just bump out small amounts of weed and let people go with a warning? Maybe it's just in your area that things are that way and perhaps you shouldn't try to use your limited view as a blanket statement? I know some places are harder on marijuana then others, it's been that way my entire life of 50+ years.

If you get that then understand that a few still count.

As for who gets arrested well I never said anyone deserved to get arrested for growing or selling pot so I'd appreciate you not trying to make it sound like I did. I'm simply making the observation that law enforcement seems more focused on those trying to distribute. Sure they'll bust someone who grows for themselves and who also vents their unfilter grow room air outside, that would be the careless I referenced.

Are you sure because unless you edit your posts others can read it as well...

Careless or not do they deserve to be arrested?

Since it is currently illegal to grow you can't just flaunt your disregard of the law if you expect to maintain your freedom.

I disagree again. So does MLK: "Everyone has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws."

The point I'm making though is if they are as hellbent as you seem to think then how come they aren't doing more to try to find home grows where people grow for themselves? I mean if it was such an important issue and their priority was to fill prisons why aren't they getting search warrants for each and every house that uses more then what is thought to be the typical amount of electricity?

What is it you think they ARE doing?

More people would be backing me up if they weren't IN PRISON!

Just agree you are far out of touch and that I seem idealistic... but understand I am very aware and trying to warn others that we could easily trade this off to a devil who is far more advanced at these venues than either of us.
Or just fight me stubbornly and argue about who's more out of touch.... It's your call.

It's our future.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I'm guessing that's just the cost of the ingredients and not what it takes to set up, fuel and secure the still from law enforcement?

What amount is it that secures a still from law enforcement?

PM me if necessary.

Especially if it takes an illegal bribe.

 

[Terroir]

The future will be hashish.

Hundreds of thousands of acres of high quality feminized seed produced by monsanto.

Good bye corn belt and welcome the hash belt.

The whole thing will be mechanized. From the sowing to the harvest to the drying and the processing. No need for trimers just a few farm hands on minimum wage.

Hash is strong, its doesnt require expert care of the plant to get nice product and it stores well.

Now you can go and buy you hyped kushdieselcookieshaze at whatever it costs to produce plus profit or you could buy some full melt hash for next to nothing at your local 7/11.

The hash will be branded and a household name and will be constant. yeh their will be different flavours but not to many less the great unwashed get confused by the range. A little competitions good and alot is just bad for business.

What are the people going to choose. I say they will go where they get the most bang for their buck. That will be concentrates.

Were all fucked.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Just enjoy going to prison for growing and know everyone smoking your hash on a stick is okay.

Good enough right?

 

[HempKat]

What amount is it that secures a still from law enforcement?

PM me if necessary.

Especially if it takes an illegal bribe.

I'm not ignoring your other post it's just that you turned it into an unnecessarily long thing to reply to by playing your little debate games that I decided to answer this one first since this one you didn't chop up so badly and therefore this one is answered more quickly.

I'll answer it by asking another question, how do you secure your grow? I secure mine by using carbon scrubbers to deal with smell. I also built things so that there is nothing unusual to see from the outside and the noise from fans are muffled. These things have cost. That cost represents the amount to secure my grow from law enforcement. Now I am not a drinker, therefore I have no desire to avoid government approved liquor or make my own. As such I have no idea of what signs might give away to a passing police officer that a still was being run in a house. Therefore I couldn't begin to give you a break down of what it would take to secure it. Although I do imagine it's not that much different then what it takes to secure a grow.

Now tell me, if I did have a still and you couldn't tell that just by passing my house and I didn't try to distribute it and I kept the fact that I made my own liquor to myself, how are the cops going to bust me for distilling hard liquor in my home? If people are getting busted for making their own liquor either they are being foolish in not trying to conceal it, or they are running their mouth when they shouldn't or they are trying to distribute it.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I take it from that post that you do still assume that those who get busted "deserve" it... I don't know why but you've chosen not to answer what I asked earlier...

All in time my chum... first things first.

I feel that your motivation is underfueled.

I'm not going to stoke your BS except to say you're right.

As far as masking your ill gotten booty you're spot on.

Don't catch your house on fire and you're fine.

Just don't sell anybody your tax free beauty.. that'd be a damn shame.

Hypothetical criminal you.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I only asked three questions...

What is your quest?

 

[HempKat]

How is it that I seem to think that they kowtow? Maybe this is a ripe topic.

You seem to think by your previous statements that the government gives big corporations whatever they want whenever they want. So either that's not true or big corporations aren't really interested in taking over the emerging marijuana market. If they were and government kowtowed to them the way you seem to think then like I said marijuana would be legal nationwide already.

Is it possible that some corporations kowtow not only to government but also to government institutions?

Geez you can't even keep it straight in your own mind can you? We weren't debating whether or not corporations kowtow to government but rather whether government kowtows to corporations. The only thing corporations kowtow to is money.

I'm sure that cops, cop dogs, prisons, and prison guards have no intrest in cannabis convictions.

Really? You're sure of this? That's rather bizarre because just yesterday you were posting that they are highly motivated to bust people for weed to fill prisons. It's getting rather tedious trying to debate something with someone who changes his mind so frequently and from so far from one end of the spectrum to the other. Nobody ever said law enforcement was uninterested in cannabis convictions just that they aren't as across the board gung ho about it as you suggested previously.

You may want to do your math. I do mine.

Maybe that's your problem, this particular topic wasn't a matter of math but rather that of history. Breweries were already being established in the US before Adolphus Busch was born and certainly long before he teamed up with his father in law Eberhard Anheuser to form the Anheuser-Busch Company. Also according to the home brewers association website "During North America’s colonial period, homebrewing was a common household task" home brewing didn't become illegal until prohibition in 1919. Also according to the Homebrewers Association it was more of an oversight then anything else that kept homebrewing illegal until the 70's when Cater corrected that oversight. After that it went so far in the other direction that "Representative David Skaggs of Colorado announced May 7th as National Homebrew Day before Congress on Monday, May 2, 1988". Now if you want to crunch numbers you might try crunching the numbers of how much beer production in major corporate breweries has declined now that micro brews and home brewing is on the rise. Here's a tidbit from a story I was just reading the other day "While sales of specialty, craft, and small-market beers have improved dramatically, many of the traditional, full-calorie beers that were once the staples of most breweries have fallen behind. In the five years ending in 2011, sales of Budweiser, which was once the top-selling beer in the country for years, have fallen by 7 million barrels. Sales of Michelob are down more than 70%.

Maybe. Maybe you still think that moonshine is illegal due to methanol.

No maybe's about it, I don't think moonshine is illegal due to just methanol. Sure it factors in but distribution of moonshine does hit the government in it's tax revenues in a meaningful enough way to get their notice. Unlike the lose of tax revenue from one person making their own and not buying taxed liquor.

Except one of us is using speculation NOT based on history...

Well break out your history books then son. I've been using mine.

Hmm.... I remember saying that earlier. Is it wrong for a grower to distribute? Maybe you have forgotten where you are.

No I know where I am but you ask your question to open endedly. Wrong from who's perspective and distribute to who? Personally I think growers of marijuana should distrubute marijuana just like I think farmers should distribute the foods they grow. However marijuana is not really the same thing as fruits and vegtables so it should not be distributed to just anyone. Unfortunately that attitude isn't shared by the vast majority of people that distribute marijuana. Many of them have no problems selling it to children just so long as the children can fork over the right amount of cash. Perhaps if far fewer growers thought selling to minors was okay we might be further along in ending prohibition then we are now? Outside of children I have no problem with growers selling their crops unless of course they are selfish and assinine enough to suggest that people should still be thrown in prison for marijuana just so they can keep justifying prices far greater then the trouble of growing it should net them.

Perhaps you've not read what I've written... It's more than probable...

I've read what you've written but you seem to be operating under the dellusion that just because you wrote it, then it is so. I however don't suffer from that dellusion.

I think that growing our own will be equal to the heroes making shine in the hills to this very day, regardless of what I warn may be taken as "legalization".

Heroes? Really? Well I guess that helps you justifying being in favor of worrying more about who makes money from weed then who gets locked up for enjoying it?

I really believe you have totally misunderstood my intent and ignored my statements.

If I had ignored your statements I wouldn't be replying to them now would I brainiac? If you really feel your intention has been misunderstood perhaps you should try restating it in a different way to make it clearer rather then just repeating yourself and claiming to be misunderstood when people don't agree with you?

As long as you see it that way.

It also means you aren't right and I'm still not wrong.

I really hope you get that.

Your logic doesn't follow since I'm not the one suggesting you are wrong simply because I disagree.

If you get that then understand that a few still count.

What still counts? Nothing in the quote you've attached this statement to has anything to do with something counting or not counting. The statement you quote is me saying just because you can think of people that got sent to prison for selling or growing weed does not equal all law enforcement being so determined to send people to prison for weed everywhere in the country. I mean if your belief was so accurate then how do you account for L.E.A.P. (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition) Or is it your position that Law enforcement is so determined to lock people up that they have formed a group fighting against the laws that allow them to lock people up for marijuana?

Are you sure because unless you edit your posts others can read it as well...

Careless or not do they deserve to be arrested?

Oh I see, you're splitting hairs over deserve as in is it right or deserve because they were foolish in how they go about it? No I don't feel people deserve to go to jail for growing pot or selling it although I do take issue with people selling it to children whoose mids are still developing and may not be ready to handle how marijuana effects them. Now if someone is aware growing is illegal but they say "screw the laws I'm going to do what I want, when I want and how I want" and that disregard allows them to be caught and busted then yes they do deserve it, they all but asked the cops to bust them if they act that way. You might as well ask if a person deserves to be arrested for murder if they shoot someone for no particular reason while a cop is standing there watching them do it. I say yes they do.

I disagree again. So does MLK: "Everyone has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws."

Disagree all you like but you and MLK are daft if you think breaking a law you feel unjust won't jeapordize your freedom. Unfortunately for you MLK was not that naieve then again he also wasnt talking about growing marijuana he was talking about laws that treat people differently based on skin color.

What is it you think they ARE doing?

It's not getting search warrants based on nothing but electrical usage. First of all they aren't checking electrical usage. If they ever become aware of electrical usage it's usually because the electric company has tipped them off which the electric company typically doesn't do if you keep current with your bill. The exception would be if people are stealing electricity but then they don't need a search warrant because stealing electricity is a crime in and of itself. Anyway if an electric company gives the cops such a tip that someone is using more electricity then would be deemed normal that in and of itself is not enough to justify a judge granting them a search warrant. They would have to find other evidence first that supports the suspicion that a grow is taking place. If a person is being careful though then the cops won't find that evidence and therefore they'll never get that warrant and they won't be able to send that person using too much electricity to jail.

More people would be backing me up if they weren't IN PRISON!

Really? You're sure of that? I've been to jail for selling marijuana and yet I'm not backing you up. I'm inclined to believe those people who are in prison for marijuana are more likely to come to the same conclusion as me that they would much rather it just be illegal and take the chance that a corporation might take control of the market. If they're like me and they grow they'll likely conclude like me that they would rather have it be legal and then they could still grow better weed then Monsanto and if they wanted to sell the risks would be no different then they are now but they'd have way more customers and now those customers wouldn't be snitching on them because the cops wouldn't be arresting them for possesion.

Just agree you are far out of touch and that I seem idealistic... but understand I am very aware and trying to warn others that we could easily trade this off to a devil who is far more advanced at these venues than either of us.
Or just fight me stubbornly and argue about who's more out of touch.... It's your call.

It's our future.

No, it's not my future because I learned my lesson and I don't sell. I have serious doubts anything remotely like your Monsanto nightmare will come to pass but even if it does it won't matter because in all my years of growing I've never depended on store bought seed and I have a network of friend who also have never depended on store bought seed so we won't be living in fear that the big evil Monsanto monster under your bed will tamper with our genetics in any way shape or form. So sorry the best I can offer you is that I agree to disagree, me with you and you with me.

 

[HempKat]

I take it from that post that you do still assume that those who get busted "deserve" it... I don't know why but you've chosen not to answer what I asked earlier...

All in time my chum... first things first.

I feel that your motivation is underfueled.

I'm not going to stoke your BS except to say you're right.

As far as masking your ill gotten booty you're spot on.

Don't catch your house on fire and you're fine.

Just don't sell anybody your tax free beauty.. that'd be a damn shame.

Hypothetical criminal you.

Assume all you like but you know what happens when you ASSuME. I really don't like the way you use the word deserve because deserve implies that it is just and right that they are busted. The proper terminology to describe what I'm saying is asking for it, or lack of appreciation for the risks they are taking. If someone is going to break the law and they don't want to be caught the onus is on them to try to break the law in a way that they don't get busted.

AS for my tax free booty, I won't be selling it, did that and it got me a felony rap. So now a days I just share it with people, for free although truth be told that kindness typically gets me kindness in return so it's really not like giving it away for free but more like paying it forward or good karma. Oh and don't worry I'm smart enough to know that just because I'm not selling it doesn't make it any safer to run my mouth about where it came from so if anyone asked me where I got it from, I got it from some guy on the streets. Have fun with the karma you earn by being willing to allow people to keep going to jail while you dicker with the government about who gets to profit most from marijuana.

 

[dagnabit]

More people would be backing me up if they weren't IN PRISON!

but alas they are.
i doubt any of them would say "im sure glad i went to prison and kept monsanto from growing weed"
maybe they do but it seems less than likely...
more likely is the person sitting in prison disagrees that they need to be there to "protect" the herb from overactive imaginations of paranoid stoners oops i mean monsanto...