MS and THC/THCV V CBD

[cannabisnz]

I have been researching and growing Medical Marijuana for over 20 years. I am heavily involved with terminally ill patients... especially advanced MS.

My area of research is the opposite of current trends with CBD strains. I have always focused on the highest possible THC with the least amount of CBD. I am particularly interested in THCV.

Many of the people I know are on powerful prescribed pharmaceuticals that make them dopey and sleepy. These meds sap all their energy and knock them out. The last thing some of these people want is weed that makes them even more tired.

I go for the speediest energy boosting weed I can get my hands on and I only grow my own and test it myself. It needs to be as strong as possible to cut through the pharmaceutical induced dopeyness. Further I have no issue at all with making sick people high.

People I know suffer terribly every minute of every day. They suffer in ways most of us cannot even begin to imagine. Severe pain, spasms, zero bladder control, zero bowel control, blindness, bed sores, open wounds, screwed up endocrine systems, no internal temp control.... the list goes on and on.

These people deserve to get high. They deserve anything that will let them escape from their suffering for a short time in a safe manner. They are bedridden and the only trip they can take is in their heads. Weed is the safest drug I've found that can help them escape and alleviate some of their symptoms.

The choice should be theirs and theirs alone. Not down to Governments or cops or doctors or anybody else. So I feel no guilt at all about what I do and as far as I'm concerned those who judge me are hypocrites.

I have always grown primarily landrace sativas and I constantly search for just the right strain or just the right sativa mix. My current research or breeding goal is to produce my own Medical Haze made up of a cross of various landrace sativas.

I have been busted many, many times for cultivation and had all my research and genetics stolen by the Govt. I have been to prison for what I believe in but it changes nothing.

I work primarily with Thai plants but I try other pure sativas as they become available and only allow them into my gene pool after extensive testing.

It is hard enough just growing weed at all in a country where it is a prison offence. It's even harder to do breeding trials where it's all about numbers... you need to grow a lot to find just the right breeding plants. I do not sell weed or mix with recreational smokers at all.

All opinions are my own and I do not say I am right or anybody else is wrong. I'm just saying this is what I do and I live it every day. I don't just read stuff and theorise... I grow it and test it and the people closest to me are dying. For real. This is my life and it has been my life for a very long time.

I didn't just randomly pick some idea and go with it. I have personally tested every type of weed (and other plant drugs as well) I could get my hands on over more years than I can remember. I reached my conclusions through hard fought experience. I have seen what works and what doesn't work with my own eyes.

For the record this is not some excuse to get stoned myself. I am clean as a whistle and have not smoked any weed for at least a year. I only grow my own and I have not been in a position to do so.

cannabisnz

 

[Cayenne]

Valuable Research

Valuable Research

THCV is particularly interesting! However, most people dont have the amount of patience nor the amount of patients it takes to focus their studies completely on Thai strains.
THCV has been shown to be a CB1 receptor antagonist, it blocks the effects of THC.

CB1 agonists may be used to isolate the effects of the receptor from the CB2 receptor, as most cannabinoids and endocannabinoids bind to both receptor types. CB1 selective antagonists are used for weight loss and the cessation of smoking. A substantial number of antagonists of the CB1 receptor have been discovered and characterized. TM38837 has been developed as a CB1 receptor antagonist that is restricted to targeting only peripheral CB1 receptors. TM38837 is a new small molecule inverse inhibitor of the CB1 cannabinoid receptor. It is being developed for the treatment of obesity and metabolic disorders. As of 2010, the company has announced phase I clinical trials.

on another side note

Reserving personal rights for what is legal, social, or ethical is extremely important. Free will is the ability of agents to make choices free from certain kinds of constraints. Liberty is the ability of individuals to have agency. Civil liberties are civil rights and freedoms that provide an individual specific rights. Although in most cases the majority opinion rules, the dissent of the majority still has a voice.

 

[danut]

In your research, have you tested out THCa?

THCa doesn't look at the CB1 or CB2 receptor. It works through the GPR55 receptor.

THC doesn't look at the GPR55 receptor.

THC, CBD, CBN, THCV all exist in the raw form in the plant. The 'a' form. They all seem to use different receptor pathways than the cooked forms.

 

[cannabisnz]

Well thankyou for the feedback. I wish to make it clear that I do not have access to lab equipment like a gas spectrometer (to test for THCV) and I would require a state of the art million dollar lab to trace CB1 and CB2 receptor activation. It's 20 years since I studied plant physiology and plant science but from memory they use radioactive isotopes for tracing or radioactive iodine or something like that... in conjunction with an electron microscope. Way out of my league anyway.

I'm just a bushman and I don't intend to mislead anybody. When I say I am particularly interested in THCV it simply means that I try to grow strains that I have read on the internet are supposedly high in THCV. Particulary the African strains and SE Asian. I know what I'm looking for in terms of effect and it could be that it isn't actually THCV.

A better way to describe my research would be to say that I am particularly interested in the unique effect of certain African, SE Asian and Indonesian strains and I have been trying to find out if it is THCV or some other chemical causing the effect. I do read all the research on receptors and interactions and then try to apply that theory to my practical experiences.

I am wary of a lot of those research papers however because the scientists tend to isolate the active chemicals (ie THC, THCV, CBD) before working with them which is entirely different to working with the full spectrum of active alkaloids in a cannabis plant all at the same time.

I am a very practical person and my bottom line has always been the effect it has in actual application rather than any theory as to what it could or should do.

I am in a position to tell immediately if a strain actually does stop spasms, or shaking, or affects bladder control or pain reduction or whatever.

I am constantly searching for rare and unique strains that may have undocumented medical benefits. I have seen almost miraculous results with certain strains but they have been complex sativas that are extremely difficult to grow secretly because they grow into trees.

There are serious moral issues with a Govt that persecutes people for this kind of research. I have approached my Govt openly many times requesting a permit to conduct my research openly with any sort of controls and overview that they like. They have not only refused but busted me and seized all my research.

My personal belief... and I stress that this is just my opinion... is that the NZ Govt are in bed with the Pharmaceutical Companies and the Alcohol Board (or whatever it is) with an unofficial agreement to block any sort of new cannabis legislation including for medical purposes.

The Govt gets enormous kickbacks from these two huge industries in the form of taxes and campaign donations (and who knows what else) and both these industries are 100% against Medical Marijuana unless they themselves are running it.

cannabisnz

 

[titoon29]

Cannabisnz,

Great work and knowledge you have acquired. Putting yourself at risk for this cause is something that few of us will have the balls to do and for that big respect.

You are ahead of the theory when it comes to practical work with cannabis.... I mean no medical study using Cannabis do even provide a full analysis of the strains used for the study, only some list few cannabinoids.

The problem for the lack of real work on this is because of the way our medicine work. As you said most of papers study one component, because of the occidental way of trying to get to the bottom to explain how the body acts. It s the contrary of an hollistic approach which you seem more encline to. Also, In that case you can more easily have access to the component and get it approved for study. Plant Material is much more complicated. Than it makes good profit because the use of this component can be patented. Not the whole plant.

So I am not sure there is a real persecution, it is most likely due to leftovers of the misconceptions from prohibition, and a non-interest for non patentable plants use. Look at Vitamin C, it seem to have many promising applications but such a lack of research, because it s just not profitable. Big Pharma only research if profits are to be made.
We need to educate people because they are short minded when it comes to the use of "drugs". Clear example by how many people do not consider coffee, alcohol, sugar, like real drugs. they are.

Back to your subject; What we know is that there are much more than a bunch of cannabinoids in play, also specific terpenes can have crucial interaction with the way the cannabinoids acts on the body. You probably have read Russo s paper on the synergy between the plant components. So the question is really are you looking after THCV or not ?

My best guest would be that you should share with us your findings, and I am sure some people will pop up to add their experience. It s possible for example that you find somebody who had his landraces tested to have the same as yours, who knows ?

Keep it up !

 

[cannabisnz]

hi titoon29

Love your penguin!

Thankyou for your feedback but I personally don't see it like that at all in my country. I believe there is widespread conspiracy and persecution and worse. The Medical Marijuana business is a billion dollar market worldwide and multinational pharmaceutical companies have been working on new cannabis medications behind the scenes for years. They absolutely want to control the market worldwide and will do anything to block competition. The last thing they want is a California situation with patients running their own dispensaries. It is naive to think otherwise. I have been knee deep in their muck for years and they are absolutely ruthless. This is business after all and the business world in the 21st century is a savage place.

As I said I have been through all the appropriate legal channels and I know certain politicians personally and have been in discussions with multinational companies involved in cannabis research. As I said I am a very practical person and I don't just talk about stuff. I've been fighting with these people for a long time. I repeat that they are corrupt and I repeat that the Govt is persecuting people involved in the area of Medical Marijuana because they want to shut the trend down on behalf of their corporate mates.

If you followed NZ politics at all and NZ court cases you would know that a Govt contracted report came back last year and recommended the immediate relaxing of legislation related to Med marijuana. The Govt ignored the report which was backed by the NZ Law Commission and The NZ Medical Council.

Instead they went out and busted all the Switched On Gardener outlets which legally distribute growing lights. They busted Dakta Green from NORML NZ and locked him up during the elections so he couldn't stand for the NORML political party and since then they have systematically busted Greencross members which is the NZ Medical Marijuana group.

The most recent bust of a Greencross member ended in a suicide as I understand it... due to police persecution. I don't know if I'm allowed to post links on this site but I'll try:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10846576

On a personal note I have been stitched up many times by the police and with the full knowledge of certain politicians. I say again that it is a deliberate and focused effort to kill any fledgling Medical Marijuana industry before it even starts while at the same time negotiationg secret deals with multinational pharmaceutical companies.... which is how Sativex got into this country.

For the record Sativex is not a single compound product. It is a tincture of the whole cannabis flower and is prepared with standard solvent extraction techniques. It is extremely expensive and could be manufactured for one third the price by a local NZ labour force... and our own superior product.

The NZ Govt are blocking their own citizens from being involved in research, manufacture and distribution but are allowing multinationals to come in and distribute their products.

As I said, I talk to these people. There is all sorts of stuff going on behind the scenes and it is a war zone. This is huge money and where ever there is huge money you will find corruption and persecution and conspiracy.

cannabisnz

 

[MrDude]

cannabisnz, do some research for multiple sclerosis bacteria, and HERV-Fc1.

 

[RulaTone]

I am wary of a lot of those research papers however because the scientists tend to isolate the active chemicals (ie THC, THCV, CBD) before working with them which is entirely different to working with the full spectrum of active alkaloids in a cannabis plant all at the same time.

Which are the alkaloids found in cannabis plant?
I am aware of their presence in roots, but i don't know for other source.
I think research has been done even with natural occurring cannabis flowers, and enriched extracts from natural source. But as said prohibition plays a huge role here, and i'm afraid it's easier to work with chemicals approved for pharmaceutical use than whole plants.

 

[RulaTone]

For the record Sativex is not a single compound product. It is a tincture of the whole cannabis flower and is prepared with standard solvent extraction techniques. It is extremely expensive and could be manufactured for one third the price by a local NZ labour force... and our own superior product.

Standard solvent extraction...
they claim to extract with supercritical co2.
I don't think it is easily reproducible in home.

 

[RulaTone]

Sorry if i sound rude
i am really interested in your work and will subscribe to this thread to follow events.
Congrats for what you have done till now, i am really curious about yuor strains, and the effect you talk about.

 

[cannabisnz]

cannabisnz, do some research for multiple sclerosis bacteria, and HERV-Fc1.

Thankyou Mr Dude. That is new research I hadn't read. I have a close relationship with somebody who is dying of Multiple Sclerosis in the advanced stages. I am always interested in the latest research. It is a terrible disease.

cannabisnz

 

[cannabisnz]

Which are the alkaloids found in cannabis plant?
I am aware of their presence in roots, but i don't know for other source.
I think research has been done even with natural occurring cannabis flowers, and enriched extracts from natural source. But as said prohibition plays a huge role here, and i'm afraid it's easier to work with chemicals approved for pharmaceutical use than whole plants.

RulaTone

Sorry my bad. In the old days literature about cannabis referred to everything as alkaloids (THC etc) and I'm still in the habit. You are quite correct. I was merely referring to the difference between working with a complete plant as opposed to working with purified and isolated extracts. Years ago I did my own personal practical research on this over a variety of plants. As in comparing the effects of pure mescaline (for example) to whole dried peyote buttons.

cannabisnz

 

[cannabisnz]

Standard solvent extraction...
they claim to extract with supercritical co2.
I don't think it is easily reproducible in home.

RulaTone

It may be they have changed their method or I have it confused with another product. I do have the reference saved somewhere but I can't be bothered looking through hundreds of folders for it at the moment. You completely missed the point anyway.

I never said anything about home cooking. We don't live in mud huts in NZ and are quite capable of setting up a proper lab for co2 extraction. You can buy the plants ready to go from China for about $20,000 NZ from memory.

That isn't the issue either. I have already been in discussions with a Dutch company that are quite happy to come and set up the whole extraction and manufacture process with their own equipment. They just wanted permission to use local labour to grow the cannabis under properly supervised conditions.

They actually approached the NZ Govt officially and were refused. This company already manufactures a Medical Marijuana product that competes directly with Sativex.

This option would have given employment to kiwis, and allowed us to enter the global Medical Marijuana market as growers. NZ is already known worldwide as a horticultural nation. We are in an economic recession and the Govt should not be stopping kiwi entrepeneurs from competing in the legal Medical marijuana worldwide market.

We don't want to break the law. We want proper permits to run proper research and run a legitimate business.

cannabisnz

 

[RulaTone]

Thanks for your reply.
Sorry i didnt missed what you we're saying, just pointing out what sativex was. But i surely still can be wrong.
Good luck for your job, it would be great for your coutry to legitimate proper research on whole plants more than singular chemicals, i am afraid this has not happened many times but gw is doing this now right?
One question: do you think whole plant is pharmaceutically "better" than only pure resin heads?
Seems a odd question, i am really curious of this.
Still wondering about your strains, any image?
very interested in the thcv aspect, http://blog.420petition.com/interna.../medical-marijuana-research-thcv-cannabinoid/

 

[justpassnthru]

cannabisnz, I have an interest in M.S.:
Is it your goal to treat the symptoms completely or some comfort?

Are you giving your patients the extract or ?
Any information and dosage, might be helpul, here, as well!

Your Compassion is Heart Warming! jpt

 

[justpassnthru]

Cannabisnz and others
Have you heard of CCSVI:http://csvi-ms.net/en

Psysorg.com:Cannabis works because it stimulates molecules known as cannabinoid receptors within the body. The group had previously reported that THC could alleviate disease symptoms, and also save nerves from the damaging effects of the disease - thus potentially, via the cannabinoid receptor CB1, slowing down the development of progressive disability. They had not previously examined the influence of cannabinoids on immune aspects of the disease.

Now their most recent study has successfully separated the roles of cannabinoid receptors CB1 and CB2 on neurons and T cells, and investigated their effect in controlling central nervous system autoimmunity. It showed that CB1 receptor expression by nerves in the brain, but not T cells, could suppress the development of an experimental MS-like disease, by stimulating the release of anti-inflammatory molecules, whilst in contrast direct stimulation of CB2 receptors by T cells was also able to control inflammation associated with the condition. This suggests that cannabis-like drugs may have the potential to block the autoimmune response which drives disease development.

Professor David Baker said: “Whilst targeting CB1 receptors for therapy runs the risk of causing the unwanted “high” to achieve these effects, we can get the same result by targeting CB2 receptors, which avoids these risks. Therefore, we can start to think about using new drugs that harness the potential medical benefits that cannabis has to offer but move away from the issues over the legality and recreational use of the plant product”.

By the description of your one patient, this came to mind. There are videos of a patient like this on You Tube.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/170788.php

Mayo Clinic Neurologist Reports: "Thousands Of NMO Patients Are Misdiagnosed With Multiple Sclerosis"

I'll be interested in your response to the CCSVI and NMO? jpt

 

[MrDude]

Thankyou Mr Dude. That is new research I hadn't read. I have a close relationship with somebody who is dying of Multiple Sclerosis in the advanced stages. I am always interested in the latest research. It is a terrible disease.

cannabisnz

Your welcome. My mother hade MS, not anymore. I gave her silver particles (colloidal silver) because it have proven to kill everything they have tried it on, and she got better, not any symptoms now (6 years later) And another friend hade Parkinson, which is also a chronic bacterial infection, he got better and dont show any symptomes today. Maby look it up. And dont get scared about Paul Karason, he drank silver chloride with huge silver particles, 75cl a day. When the took out malaria in 56 out of 56 with Silver Sol for example, they only used 5 to 15 ml. Dr Kwabiah did not use more either with ASAP Silver on HIV, gonorrhea, urinary tract infection, candida vaginal yeast infection etc. You can also build up an electrical charge between the cell membrane (consists of two layers) so they burst and die with alternating electric current.

 

[oldchuck]

I'd like to keep track of this thread. I'm interested in THCV, what it does and how it interacts with other components of cannabis. I'm looking for optimal epilepsy seizure control.

 

[danut]

MS patients can require very large doses of cannabis extract.

I know one MS patient that will take as much as 14,000 mg of cannabis extract in a single 24 hour period.

THAT shuts down the attack. Lower doses are consumed daily for rebuilding the damage done by the attack.

The sooner the materials are applied the more of the damage that is done in the attack is returned.

Yes .. we can rebuild them.

THCV .. Spiky .. When concentrated, tripping stuff. Seriously, little old ladies don't like it when Donald Duck or Jesus come to visit. Full blown tripping.

BUT!! I can see where it would punch through for the MS patient.

I have access to testing, but I know most folks don't.

Hints for THCV:
Short duration. An hour later you'd like another couple hits.
Fast slam. Starts to hit almost instantly.
Hard hitting. You can feel it fast.

Hits hard+fast, wears off quickly.

 

[The Hatter]

If you seek stimulating THCV strains then the best place to look is African landrace and IBL strains. Try ACE and Cannabiogen if you are looking for IBL sativas. They have a good selection from around the globe including a lot of African genetics. Africans are the strains most likely to carry heavy THCV doses.

I've seen research which has indicated that there are some SE Asian strains which contain it also but its much less common.

Out of the common polyhybrids you see around, the only one I have seen that tested high in THCV is Jack the Ripper.