Pond pump for tea aeration

[Ziggaro]

Can I use one of those pond sump pumps to aerate tea? I was testing it in a bucket yesterday and the water was so agitated the bucket was tipping a little bit. With the pump sitting at the bottom and no hose attached, it was pumping water over the water surface creating a fountain.
Do you think this will create enough DO or should I make an aspirator to attach to the pump?
I do have an aquarium pump but its only 4 watts.

 

[Granger2]

Get a good air pump. Good luck. -granger

 

[Ziggaro]

OK I will if I have to, but hopefully someone will answer the question. I know it will work with an aspirator, but is it necessary or can enough DO be created by agitating the surface? That's the question.

 

[Swayze]

If I remember correctly from my old hydro days, surface agitation is what you're looking for. If you have a fountain like effect you're golden in the DO department. The only concern would be the beneficial life you are trying to bring forth may be shredded to pieces constantly passing through the pump.

Best of luck

 

[W89]

Im pretty sure all an air pump does to add oxygen to the water is agitate the top of the water and it pulls oxygen from the air not the bubbles.. correct me if im wrong?

 

[OrganicOzarks]

The impeller on the pond pump would not make your microbes happy. I believe Microbeman tested this, and you can read his results on his webpage.

When it comes to an air pump bigger is better. Those 5 gallon compost tea brewers that sell for $29.99 with those cheap walmart single outlet air pumps are not worth the money. If you are brewing a 5 gallon bucket with an aquarium air pump then in all likelihood you are wasting your time. The standard single outlets run 3w, and the dual can go up to about 6 watts.

Now can you brew a quality tea with the 3 watt pump? I have yet to do one that would be worth using.When you go up to the 6 watt dual outlet pump it is possible to brew a tea that would be worth using. The only way I could do it(with the standard have your bag o'compost dangling in the water) was to do 3 hand extractions. Which is fancy talk for squeezing the shit out of the bag like you are checking for testicular cancer on your arch enemy.

That being said I have found that an air pump in the 18 watt range works best for a 5 gallon bucket. My brewer however does not do the "dangle the bag o'compost in the water " thing. So you could get different results if you do it that way. However I would say that with 18 watts, and 1 hand extraction i would think you could brew a good tea by dangling it in the water.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

The impeller on the pond pump would not make your microbes happy. I believe Microbeman tested this, and you can read his results on his webpage.

When it comes to an air pump bigger is better. Those 5 gallon compost tea brewers that sell for $29.99 with those cheap walmart single outlet air pumps are not worth the money. If you are brewing a 5 gallon bucket with an aquarium air pump then in all likelihood you are wasting your time. The standard single outlets run 3w, and the dual can go up to about 6 watts.

Now can you brew a quality tea with the 3 watt pump? I have yet to do one that would be worth using.When you go up to the 6 watt dual outlet pump it is possible to brew a tea that would be worth using. The only way I could do it(with the standard have your bag o'compost dangling in the water) was to do 3 hand extractions. Which is fancy talk for squeezing the shit out of the bag like you are checking for testicular cancer on your arch enemy.

That being said I have found that an air pump in the 18 watt range works best for a 5 gallon bucket. My brewer however does not do the "dangle the bag o'compost in the water " thing. So you could get different results if you do it that way. However I would say that with 18 watts, and 1 hand extraction i would think you could brew a good tea by dangling it in the water.

Sorry for the double post. The shit was timing out, and acting funky......

 

[2 Legal Co]

Sounds like you may need a bigger Bucket. If you bubbles run an air line into the line out of the current pump (angled with the flow of fluid), it'll pull air from the surface and add it to the stream. No problems. Sounds like you have enough pump for a Much bigger bucket.

 

[vostok]

I use a hand pump with success

 

[Ziggaro]

Thanks for the info on the pond pumps. I went back and looked at the test results and see that the fungi gets all shredded up. Not what I'm looking for..

Since I'm only making about a gallon of tea at a time I'm guessing the little pump I have should work. Five gallons would be way more tea than I could use, and if 20 watts will work for 5 gallons, 4 watts should work for one.. Is my reasoning off?

 

[TribalSeeds]

If it foams and doesnt smell foul you should be good to go.
Ive made teas with small air pumps with stones. When the stones are clean I get great foaming teas. When the stones get clogged and I dont get enough air into the bucket my tea doesnt foam... So im guessing the small pumps work well enough for the small batches I made.

 

[Ziggaro]

Wassup buddy

Yeah I think so I made some nice looking/smelling teas with Earth Juice once upon a time. I know what you mean about the stones I'm gonna get some glass ones and see if they hold up better than the cheap ceramic one.

I just mixed some up so we'll see what happens

 

[OrganicOzarks]

If it foams and doesnt smell foul you should be good to go.
Ive made teas with small air pumps with stones. When the stones are clean I get great foaming teas. When the stones get clogged and I dont get enough air into the bucket my tea doesnt foam... So im guessing the small pumps work well enough for the small batches I made.

This statement is false. Just because it smells earthy, and has a frothy head does not mean it is a good tea. Unless you have a microscope you will never know. In 2012 I brewed roughly 250 compost tea's. I actually think it was closer to 300 , but I want to be conservative.

What I learned from looking at all of those under the scope is what you said is completely wrong.

unless you have a microscope then you will be better off buying a tested brewer from a company that has put the work in for you. If you don't then you are probably adding a bit of bacteria at best.

Which without the rest of the critters necessary to complete the nutrient cycling won't help you out very much.

Please don't spread false information about compost tea. This is how all of those "old wive's Tales" of growing start.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

"Foam" can come from at least one material: Alfalfa meal (saponins = foam)

Alfalfa Saponin level: 20,000 ppm

HTH

CC

 

[Ziggaro]

Yeah molasses I think creates foams too without actually being active.

One of the problems with buying a brewer is they are all so large. I wouldn't know what to do with 5 gallons of tea.

At least, it's probably true that if it doesn't smell bad its not harmful.

 

[SeaMaiden]

OK I will if I have to, but hopefully someone will answer the question. I know it will work with an aspirator, but is it necessary or can enough DO be created by agitating the surface? That's the question.

Yes you can, but you need to be careful that it won't make the water column too warm. Also, I don't know that the microbes you're after can take being passed continually through an impeller.

Foaming when in conjunction with sufficient aeration action (superfine bubbles are required for this to occur) is called foam fractionation, and it's actually harnessed as a form of chemical filtration called protein skimming (in the aquatic world). Think of the foam you see at the beach, or on some lakes or rivers. It's primarily comprised of dissolved organic molecules that have a hydrophobic end and a hydrophilic end. The hydrophobic end attaches itself to the air bubble, and up it floats, creating foam. It's not, IME, necessarily a sign of anything except a water column that's rich in dissolved organic compounds.

Sometimes I find myself wondering if there might be a business model in packaging skimmate from a koi pond or other freshwater source, or hell, even a marine aquarium. I wonder just how plants might respond....

 

[OrganicOzarks]

Yeah molasses I think creates foams too without actually being active.

One of the problems with buying a brewer is they are all so large. I wouldn't know what to do with 5 gallons of tea.

At least, it's probably true that if it doesn't smell bad its not harmful.

5 gallons of tea is not really that much. I looked through your pics, and you could use it I bet. Something to keep in mind is you do not have to dilute it when you are soil drenching. So when you look at it like that 5 gallons isn't shit.

Now if you go by the "5 gallons can do an acre" then yes it does sound like a lot. However the only time I dilute it is when I foliar feed. I mix it half and half with water.

I use to foliar feed full strength, except my brewer really makes a thick goopy sludge at the bottom of the bucket. So my dumb ass was not thinking, and filled my sprayer with this thick shit, and sprayed my plants. I literally had my head up my ass that day.Let's just say that they recovered, but I lost some yield.

Some things to think about.

 

[TribalSeeds]

This statement is false. Just because it smells earthy, and has a frothy head does not mean it is a good tea. Unless you have a microscope you will never know. In 2012 I brewed roughly 250 compost tea's. I actually think it was closer to 300 , but I want to be conservative.

What I learned from looking at all of those under the scope is what you said is completely wrong.

unless you have a microscope then you will be better off buying a tested brewer from a company that has put the work in for you. If you don't then you are probably adding a bit of bacteria at best.

Which without the rest of the critters necessary to complete the nutrient cycling won't help you out very much.

Please don't spread false information about compost tea. This is how all of those "old wive's Tales" of growing start.

Microbeman always says that you should be able to tell if the tea is bad by smelling it.
With the foam he says thats not a great indicator. However, if I just add molasses the foam eventually thins out or doesnt get too frothy. When it keeps growing I feel pretty good about the mix.
Ive had some teas fizzle out and start to smell rank that I wouldnt use.

As far as tea quality, people were making teas far before pumps or microscopes and the nose is a worthy instrument. It is difficult to make a destructive tea but I try to help people learn to make optimum ACT.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

Microbeman always says that you should be able to tell if the tea is bad by smelling it.
With the foam he says thats not a great indicator. However, if I just add molasses the foam eventually thins out or doesnt get too frothy. When it keeps growing I feel pretty good about the mix.
Ive had some teas fizzle out and start to smell rank that I wouldnt use.

I agree that if it smells like shit then it is "bad". However if it does not smell like shit does not mean it is "good". The only way to make a "good" tea is by buying a brewer that has been pretested and designed, or by using a scope. Other than that it is a crap shoot at best.

I would bet that the majority of people on here making tea without a scope are making poor quality tea. Especially if they are using a home made brewer.


I am sure microbeman can chime in on this one as you sited him as a reference.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

So I thought I would show this mornings brew that I did in my 10 gallon brewer. I don't have the design exactly where I want it yet, but it is getting pretty close.

I wanted everyone to see what is really going on. I think anyone on this forum would be happy with what the brew "looks" like at face value. Actually I think most people would be ecstatic.

That being said once under the scope you will see that this is not an acceptable brew. There are not enough bacteria, and the diversity that is there is lacking significantly. There were only a few amoeba, and no flagalettes. Fungal strands were also not very prevalent. Overall this tea failed to make the cut, but at face value you would never know that.

Another thing I would like to point out is that in the picture of the brew in a 5 gallon bucket you can see how dark my teas get. They literally look like mud. To most this would mean a "good" brew, however it does not mean shit.