Living organic soil from start through recycling

[greenmatter]

CC

FWIW i have tried running several different nutes thru blumats and you are 100% correct about it being a major headache. i have been running only water for a while now but i do dose the upper res with pro tekt twice a week and so far i have had no issues (going on about two months now)

my upper res is a three gallon bucket, so the pro tekt "solution" does not stay in the res long (i go through about 8 - 10 gallons of water a day) so the silica is out of the system before it has a chance to cause problems. the main res is just water

not sure if your system is set up to make that work for you, or if you are using enough water in a day to keep things "'flushed"

blumats are a great product. they don't make gardening worry free, but they sure make it so you worry less

 

[ClackamasCootz]

blumats are a great product. they don't make gardening worry free, but they sure make it so you worry less

GM

I agree 100% - they're a good tool and as such using them requires a bit of testing and tweaking like anything else.

They can keep their #*&@*(@ Blutmat Jr. devices - LOL

 

[greenmatter]

those "#*&@*(@"-ing things are mentioned a lot in the blumat thread ........ so far i have not seen anyone saying they work for what most of us are growing

i did actually buy one to see if i could make it work ........ but i have enough to beat my head against right now and i am not that bored, so it is still on a shelf gathering dust and will probably stay right where it is.

i guess it's not the dumbest thing i ever spent money on

 

[ClackamasCootz]

I bought a bag of them when Light Mfg. (Everybody's Garden Center) closed their doors. If I could figure out how to wire them with flashing LED lights I think that they would make a great decoration statement for Christmas trees......

Pointed upward of course

 

[MileHighGuy]

I'm on the BluMat Wagon. I think i'm falling off though.

If I grew a veg and flower in the same room... I'd be all in.

Even If I flowered all at the same time I'd be keeping them.

More than likely I'll be pulling them out at my next harvest.


With my perpetual I harvest 2-4 plants every 11-20 Days and rotating these things is a major pain.... cause then I need to dial them in again.

Anyone rock these with a perpetual and have a system to rotate?

 

[greenmatter]

^^^^ i've been doing perpetual multi strain for a long time

it complicates everything so no system is perfect, but i like the blumats anyway. those and soil seem like the best way get a handle on the "slobbering clusterfuck" that i call my garden

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Blumats in a perpetual garden would be challenging - or at least for me. I'd probably just cut the chase and get another kit - one harness for veg and another for flower?

 

[DuckDuckGoose]

awesome thread. i just joined because i found this organic section and i'm changing over to growing in soil because of all the info provided. question about comfrey... i noticed that many people are using it, but they all seem to have a plant to take the leaves from. is dried comfrey from a health store a good alternative? and are there ways to utilize it without making the fermented extracts mentioned in the other thread? i was hoping to make some type of solution out of the available dried product for more or less immediate use, without stinking up my house with the fermentation process or having to wait for weeks. thanks. also same question relating to nettles and other herbs available...
DDG

 

[think_fast]

Anyone rock these with a perpetual and have a system to rotate?

I'm running a very finicky system, a perpetual with small 6"x6"x7" pots. This may turn out to be a poor investment, as I'm not sure how well the blumats will function with such small pots in a perpetual.

They were ordered recently, so I'll be sure to share my nightmare once they arrive and I've had some time to test them.

Thanks for the clarification CC, it didn't occur to me that the lines would be housing areas for anaerobic bacteria. Pretty foolish of me now that I think about it.

As far as I understand, Silicon isn't organic. Why then is it not advisable to use in a res for blumats?

 

[Weyenot]

Since this thread is just as much about philosophy as it is about growing...

From The One Straw Revolution

"And so one may ask why this truth has not spread. I think that one of

the reasons is that the world has become so specialized that it has​

become impossible for people to grasp anything in its entirety."

Remember noobs (myself included), it is not about what 'quick fix' is gonna get your leaves greener or eliminate whatever pest you have an issue with atm. That's the pharmaceutiful, largely symptom based, deficit model approach (found a few threads over). Much like yourself, it's not a machine with cogs that can be replaced on the fly. There is room for modification, but transition with respect to small and large, and always, always, treat it as a living, breathing, single and multifarious thing.

Thanks MM!

think_fast I resonate with this idea , for sure! Divided mentality can definitely make things confusing in a hurry, everything really is connected in some way so I think its a good practice to keep that in mind in order to connect on a deeper level; it certainly is something to aspire towards! Definitely a lifelong practice, keeping those senses open and receptive CC- thank you for the barley info. It didn't even occur to me that would be the case at the bulk section but it makes total sense, most people aren't buying those grains to make wonderful enzyme brews with! There are several microbreweries in the area so I will be checking them out soon. That covers the barley/grains, now I need to find a good source for quality alfalfa seeds; the best Ive found so far is online at around $8-$9lb. The effect you described that alfalfa has on node distance is intriguing; could you please elaborate?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

As far as I understand, Silicon isn't organic. Why then is it not advisable to use in a res for blumats?

think_fast

I realize that this isn't much to go on but here it is.....

The first experience was when I had emulsified some neem oil with Pro-TeKt and when I finished that I added an organic Yucca Extract (liquid) from T & J Enterprises. As soon as the extract hit the mix it solidified into a paste. Instantly.

That had me puzzled because at one point I used this Yucca extract as an emulsifier so I knew that wasn't the source of the problem per se.

The next one was when I was using Comfrey syrup that I had made. That's where you take Comfrey leaves and weight them down and as it breaks down you get a concentrated Comfrey extract which stores very well for several months. I poured about 1/2 cup into a bowl and since I always add Pro-TeKt to every tea I thought it would be easier to mix the Pro-TeKt with the Comfrey syrup before diluting it with water - same phenomenon: a thick mess that had to be tossed into the worm bin.

Not much science there and there are a number of possibilities on the actual cause so I decided to error on the side of caution and leave the Pro-TeKt out of the reservoir.

That's all I've got! LOL

CC

 

[Budwhyser]

I'm on the BluMat Wagon. I think i'm falling off though.

If I grew a veg and flower in the same room... I'd be all in.

Even If I flowered all at the same time I'd be keeping them.

More than likely I'll be pulling them out at my next harvest.


With my perpetual I harvest 2-4 plants every 11-20 Days and rotating these things is a major pain.... cause then I need to dial them in again.

Anyone rock these with a perpetual and have a system to rotate?

I use 4x4 trays in flower. Each tray is independent and has it's own reservoir. That way when a tray is done, I pull the blumats and pop them in a bucket of water careful not to move the position of the cap. Then when the next group comes to that tray I usually only have to adj slightly if at all

 

[ClackamasCootz]

now I need to find a good source for quality alfalfa seeds; the best Ive found so far is online at around $8-$9lb. The effect you described that alfalfa has on node distance is intriguing; could you please elaborate?

Weyenot

The Alfalfa seed deal is really screwed up in part because of the ruling last spring over Monsanto's GMO Alfalfa deal making organic seeds even more difficult to find than before and it's going to get worse. Finding organic Alfalfa hay or meal is getting difficult even with 50% price increases over the past 9 months.

The price you found online is about 1/2 what I paid at a health food store that has a huge section of seeds and seed sprouting tools so I knew I was getting screwed but it was on the shelf and ready to take home and use. It sucks but that's what we have to deal with.

Alfalfa is one of the best nutrient accumulators only exceeded by Kelp. So if you do the cost analysis like this it's not so bad: if you use 1/4 cup of seeds that's 'about 2 ounces' and that amount of seeds will give you enough sprouts to make 8 cups of concentrate which makes 8 gallons of sprouted seed tea. Even at my uber price that works out to $.25 per a gallon of applied solution.

If you're using another seed like Barley and if you paid a high price of $1.00 per lb. the price on the final mix is pretty insane - probably about $.03 per gallon.

Something like that......

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

awesome thread. i just joined because i found this organic section and i'm changing over to growing in soil because of all the info provided. question about comfrey... i noticed that many people are using it, but they all seem to have a plant to take the leaves from. is dried comfrey from a health store a good alternative? and are there ways to utilize it without making the fermented extracts mentioned in the other thread? i was hoping to make some type of solution out of the available dried product for more or less immediate use, without stinking up my house with the fermentation process or having to wait for weeks. thanks. also same question relating to nettles and other herbs available...
DDG

The dried powders will give you good results and if you're looking at a powdered product with the brand name "Starr" or "Star" (one or the other) then that's a good one to buy and use.

One plant that gets overlooked that is a nutrient powerhouse is Dandelions which are easier to find but you have the pesticide and other sprays to consider as many homeowners use these products way too much.

CC

 

[Durdy]

My yards a god damn Dandelion jungle right now, I've got to get on making an FPE!

 

[think_fast]

Interesting about the Dandelions. It's beginning to make sense now that I am taking a moment to think about it: these things have the ability to spear roots very deep into the ground, which is why they are so difficult to get rid of. If you pull one out of the ground, and you notice that even a fraction of the root did not come up with the rest of the plant, then you've failed at removing this plant from you lawn. It will just grow back. And no wonder, there are probably very rich nutrient supplies that far down under, that most living things don't have access to. Which means the tea must rock!

As far as accessibility and nutritional value go, these seem to be the best of all possible worlds. At least in my area.

I was wondering though, since Dandelions are probably the single most assaulted plant when it comes to pesticide use, what are the consequences to the offspring that land and root in my yard, which is not subject to pesticide use? Are these good to use?

 

[think_fast]

think_fast

I realize that this isn't much to go on but here it is.....

The first experience was when I had emulsified some neem oil with Pro-TeKt and when I finished that I added an organic Yucca Extract (liquid) from T & J Enterprises. As soon as the extract hit the mix it solidified into a paste. Instantly.

That had me puzzled because at one point I used this Yucca extract as an emulsifier so I knew that wasn't the source of the problem per se.

The next one was when I was using Comfrey syrup that I had made. That's where you take Comfrey leaves and weight them down and as it breaks down you get a concentrated Comfrey extract which stores very well for several months. I poured about 1/2 cup into a bowl and since I always add Pro-TeKt to every tea I thought it would be easier to mix the Pro-TeKt with the Comfrey syrup before diluting it with water - same phenomenon: a thick mess that had to be tossed into the worm bin.

Not much science there and there are a number of possibilities on the actual cause so I decided to error on the side of caution and leave the Pro-TeKt out of the reservoir.

That's all I've got! LOL

CC

So the stuff sludged on you when mixed with other ingredients and you've chosen to be extra cautious by removing it entirely from the blumat res. If I get you.

I won't question why you don't use it with plain water alone LOL.

 

[Weyenot]

Weyenot

The Alfalfa seed deal is really screwed up in part because of the ruling last spring over Monsanto's GMO Alfalfa deal making organic seeds even more difficult to find than before and it's going to get worse. Finding organic Alfalfa hay or meal is getting difficult even with 50% price increases over the past 9 months.

The price you found online is about 1/2 what I paid at a health food store that has a huge section of seeds and seed sprouting tools so I knew I was getting screwed but it was on the shelf and ready to take home and use. It sucks but that's what we have to deal with.

Alfalfa is one of the best nutrient accumulators only exceeded by Kelp. So if you do the cost analysis like this it's not so bad: if you use 1/4 cup of seeds that's 'about 2 ounces' and that amount of seeds will give you enough sprouts to make 8 cups of concentrate which makes 8 gallons of sprouted seed tea. Even at my uber price that works out to $.25 per a gallon of applied solution.

If you're using another seed like Barley and if you paid a high price of $1.00 per lb. the price on the final mix is pretty insane - probably about $.03 per gallon.

Something like that......

CC

Thank you for the quick reply CC. I agree, the whole GMO situation really seems to have thrown a wrench in the works; I did manage to find a few sites that advertized theirs seeds as being GMO free, actually I need to double check and make sure that deal I found was one of unmodified ones. Mountainrose has theirs for 10.50lb and they give discounts on multiple lbs on everything they sell Im pretty sure, so even with shipping factored in it should be decent; Im going to keep searching and Ill let you know what I turn up. Nonetheless these teas are worthwhile considering the powerful effects Ive witnessed so far and compared to the multitude of bottled "magic promises" that dont seem to actually connect with the plant they produce real results for a real price. Its such a joy to learn more about all the wonderful benefits these plants have to offer! Speaking of Agsil; I checked the link you gave out earlier in the thread and found that they were sold out of all sizes so I continued my search to find a site called http://mbferts.com/Agsil-16H-Potassium-Silicate-Soluble-Silica-Powder-1-Pound-545.htm. This site has theirs listed at $10lb with free shipping but you have to buy at least $25 dollars in product, which still comes out well I think. I ordered some from them only to be informed that they have a low stock and make most of their money off of liquid sales(of course they do!) so they couldnt sell me any until the beginning of the year. Something tells me that there is a connection between the site you mentioned and MBferts; one sells to the other maybe? At any rate, I think it could be a good source once they get restocked. I am looking forward to making some dandelion tea to try; there are tons the plants here and I plan on sowing some seeds to make for a more concentrated supply. Im also looking forward to trying out the curly/yellow dock and burdock. Have you/or anyone else here tried these? I burnt up the air pump somehow on my ACT brewer(which I also use to make plant extracts/teas) so I will be waiting to go forward with any more tea making until I have a new pump; and while Im at it I think I will upsize the pump to a Eco commercial air 7 and get a 15 gallon cone bottom tank to be able to use more liquid. I can only speculate as to why the pump gave out; its possible that since the bulkhead fitting at the bottom of the bucket that connects to the airlift is only 1"D it and it gets periodically clogged(sometimes for hrs without being corrected) that this overworked the pump.........okay, thats enough there; Im starting to ramble Thank you kindly for your help!

 

[DuckDuckGoose]

i bought some dry comfrey in a herbal food store, it didn't have a name brand, it was just sitting in huge jar. it costs $39 for a kilo, not sure if that is a good price but i bought like 2oz's of it and steeped it in warm water and bubbled it with an air stone. got another question about living soil... if i want to mix a batch of soil as per the soil thread instructions, and i moisten the soil with an ACT and let the microbes process the ingredients, can i do this inside my house in a large tub, and do i need to cover the soil or let it breath and stir it occasionally? i didn't see any info on how that process goes...i was hoping to do this in my basement crawl space if it wouldn't smell too bad...

 

[BlueJayWay]

Soil in large tubs and/or smart pots inside the house, basement, kept appropriately moist with ACT - sounds good. Whether covered or uncovered, proper moisture level, not soggy but not dry ya know, is important. Air is good for the soil, so don't keep it smooshed in airtight.

Good quality living soil will not stink, should smell good, sweet n earthy.... Unless certain amendments are freshly applied I suppose.