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Man, am I glad I stopped in here. Rives is always, always so helpful. Without knowing what the Y-axis is, it looks like the Agro has less relative output. Probably not, but that's why I was initially smitten by the 930. But that 660 peak makes huge sense.
Assuming output isn't bad, the Agro looks mighty sweet,
Assuming output isn't bad, the Agro looks mighty sweet,
1.9 - 1.95PPF on that Agro bulb is pretty awesome! If you calculate the micromole output you would be way better off with two of these than 1 of the "industry best" 1kw agrocultural HPS bulbs. Really a smart design. That graph is "relative output" so what it is showing is what the make up is of the total output. So it has very high total output and the peaks show how much of that output are at that NM..... Hence the high PPF. I am going to try one in about 4.5 - 5sqft with a good reflector and Orca film on the walls, CO2 and exact temp control. Should be pretty impressive.
You are correct. rives is always very helpful.
You are correct. rives is always very helpful.
City Twin
Member
Thanx for the input. ( I gotta figger out this rep thing )
I respectfully disagree. First of all the best HPS lamp does almost 2.1 umol s-1 per watt, so you would need at least three fixtures and 3 lamps. The lamps are not very cheap either and every change you need to change three instead of 1 HPS. Actually 4 if you compare it to HPS boosted to 1150. A CDM fixtures cost about €750 in Europe, with a standard 930 or 942 lamp.
A plasma + HPS together can be compared to 4 cdm fixtures. Given, the 4 CDM will be much more uniform, but also very warm as I have experienced. A plasma + HPS only needs a HPS lamp change every year for the first 3-5 years, so in initial cost and maintenance it is cheaper. 2 times cheaper in cost, and well, you have seen what the CDM lamps cost to change. And i haven't even mentioned reflector change
. Last advantage for the plasma configuration is the amount of UVA/B and the dimmable HPS.
whazzup - I will not get in to a numbers game or back and forth with you. You are certainly exposed to and have experience with studies that are not of my realm....... However, having had recent (and lengthy) discussions with some of the folks that Philips developed the Agro bulb for, fixture sets including the Agro bulb, hood/reflector and a newly developed ballast that takes the bulb to 90-95% maintenance on a 50,000hr rating are just around the corner. They will hit the market soon and they will be reasonably affordable. As a matter of fact, once someone has purchased a set-up, replacement bulbs will run around $100.00 U.S.
I know that the Plasma is a good tech. I have seen some in person. I know that the products you rep are excellent products. With this newer ballast that is coming out - drives bulb to full out put at lower than rated wattage via some very smart tech - the output versus consumption will make these a very nice option. At least that is how I see it. Right now, the gear is expensive. I spoke with the manufacturer of the new ballast desing today and they are likely going to sell me one so I can play a little.
At any rate. You have provided many of us with good advice and you are a respected member here. I just think the CDM is going to find a good foothold in the market soon and I believe that it has excellent potential.
Regards
I know that the Plasma is a good tech. I have seen some in person. I know that the products you rep are excellent products. With this newer ballast that is coming out - drives bulb to full out put at lower than rated wattage via some very smart tech - the output versus consumption will make these a very nice option. At least that is how I see it. Right now, the gear is expensive. I spoke with the manufacturer of the new ballast desing today and they are likely going to sell me one so I can play a little.
At any rate. You have provided many of us with good advice and you are a respected member here. I just think the CDM is going to find a good foothold in the market soon and I believe that it has excellent potential.
Regards
Whazzup, while I would be all over a Gavita 1000 DE if I was growing commercially (and at some point I will probably try one anyway!), there are a number of interesting aspects to the CDM equipment. One of the biggest things for me is that I dislike the looks of my plants under HPS damn near as much as I do under the red/blue of my LED fixtures. Certainly not much of a factor for someone doing it for a living, but......
The GEL ballasts that I mentioned above are claiming a lamp life of 50,000 hours, with 95% lumen maintenance at 50% of lamp life. It might be b.s., but their target market is replacement of LED roadway lighting. We'll see how their claims come to fruition, but I find it very interesting to see the further development of HID technology with some pressure from competition.
You have warned about the color shift issues with HPS - Philips is touting the CDM's as being very color-stable while dimming.
I am very intrigued with the Gavita line, and will undoubtedly get around to experimenting with them at some point. In the meantime, I am happy to see other types of lighting develop. The one certain thing about competition amongst suppliers is that the consumer wins.
The GEL ballasts that I mentioned above are claiming a lamp life of 50,000 hours, with 95% lumen maintenance at 50% of lamp life. It might be b.s., but their target market is replacement of LED roadway lighting. We'll see how their claims come to fruition, but I find it very interesting to see the further development of HID technology with some pressure from competition.
You have warned about the color shift issues with HPS - Philips is touting the CDM's as being very color-stable while dimming.
I am very intrigued with the Gavita line, and will undoubtedly get around to experimenting with them at some point. In the meantime, I am happy to see other types of lighting develop. The one certain thing about competition amongst suppliers is that the consumer wins.
Don't get me wrong guys, I like the CDM lamps a lot! We already have a fixture for it and we have tested it against other solutions and combinations. It is much more efficient than a plasma lamp and the light quality is fine (though still peaky and no UV), it has great potential. The Agro lamp, as I think I already mentioned, is not going to be sold in by Philips in Europe because there is no market for it. Horti customers prefer the 942 for climate rooms. That's probably also a pricing question.
I just commented about the number of fixtures you need to replace a HPS lamp. Of course the spectrum of the two can not be compared.
There are already higher wattage CMH lamps available. It is a great technology which philips masters as no other company. The only problem is that it is medium wattage technology which is great for low climate rooms but expensive as you need great quantities of them to fill a big room. Don't buy CDM just because it has a good ppf/W, there is more to it in the equation than just the ppf/W. It will always be a much higher investment than HPS.
If it's just for the looks of your plants don't go for the Agro. It's a sort of a strange color light because of the extra red. The 942 is nicer if you want to make nice pictures too.
CDM Agro
It's thanks to guys like who stick their neck out to try something new that people actually see them at work and get first hand experiences. I just share my perspective on things.
I just commented about the number of fixtures you need to replace a HPS lamp. Of course the spectrum of the two can not be compared.
There are already higher wattage CMH lamps available. It is a great technology which philips masters as no other company. The only problem is that it is medium wattage technology which is great for low climate rooms but expensive as you need great quantities of them to fill a big room. Don't buy CDM just because it has a good ppf/W, there is more to it in the equation than just the ppf/W. It will always be a much higher investment than HPS.
If it's just for the looks of your plants don't go for the Agro. It's a sort of a strange color light because of the extra red. The 942 is nicer if you want to make nice pictures too.
CDM Agro
It's thanks to guys like who stick their neck out to try something new that people actually see them at work and get first hand experiences. I just share my perspective on things.
Attachments
tenthirty
Member
I just can't help myself,
Today the Elite Agro got fired up. Full sun daylight at about 2 pm.
So, compared to the sun,
The Elite Agro is whiter and does not get drowned out by the sun.
There is no way you could look at the tube without eye protection. I didn't even try.
Just looking at the light coming out the bottom of the reflector (Cycloptics)in broad daylight caused spots and brief blindness.
Li-cor quantum meter is on the way.
Today the Elite Agro got fired up. Full sun daylight at about 2 pm.
So, compared to the sun,
The Elite Agro is whiter and does not get drowned out by the sun.
There is no way you could look at the tube without eye protection. I didn't even try.
Just looking at the light coming out the bottom of the reflector (Cycloptics)in broad daylight caused spots and brief blindness.
Li-cor quantum meter is on the way.
tenthirty
Member
The total spectrum on the Agro is as good as it's going to get with a plasma/metal arc lamp.
It's still pretty spikey, but the spikes are in the good spots.
That being said, It looks like the penetration (using the by gosh and by golly method)
should be about 20" with the reflector that I have.
I did some basic measurements and it looks like it will cover my 3x3 sog just fine.
It's still pretty spikey, but the spikes are in the good spots.
That being said, It looks like the penetration (using the by gosh and by golly method)
should be about 20" with the reflector that I have.
I did some basic measurements and it looks like it will cover my 3x3 sog just fine.
I'm building a flower room and was going to have a single 1000w HPS in the center with 4 plants in the middle. I like to walk around the plants and don't plan to have reflective walls close. These may get tall, or I can let them get tall, so was thinking the 1000W for 4x4 minimum footprint and penetration if they get tall.
I supplement with UV-b reptile MH lamp already, but that 660 red was a revelation to me. So I guess I'll have to go look at this plasma spectrum.
I supplement with UV-b reptile MH lamp already, but that 660 red was a revelation to me. So I guess I'll have to go look at this plasma spectrum.
if you use a 4x4 room a single lamp will never give you a good uniformity. The more light sources, the better the uniformity. I think there is a nice topic here on the forum that shows you the iso diagrams of many reflectors. Though this is interesting, but do you learn from it? Well, the only conclusion you can make imho is that you always need overlapping lamps to create a uniform field. That's why in (low) professional climate rooms always medium wattage is used (up to 400W).
Interesting. So if flowering 4 plants you would advocate two lamps. I have a 600W HPS with micromole digital ballast. I have no need to deploy that in the flower room, but could.
Seems the two lamps would have to be the same light source, or else have them on a light mover.
Ugh... what to buy...
Seems the two lamps would have to be the same light source, or else have them on a light mover.
Ugh... what to buy...
A mover is not a bad solution actually, I have seen people do great things with it. I haven't used it myself, but looking at the results I would say that is a good idea. It will also penetrate the plants deaper as you light from more angles.
Another thing: Uniformity is not the holy grail in a small tent. It is when you grow 80 small plants per square meter but not when you grow 4. You do get good results under more smaller lamps though, though they usually are a bit less less efficient.
I'm limited in the size of the medical grow, but would like more light for other plants. What the hell. Grow a pineapple or something.
Looking at 1000w HPS + Plasma OR dual Agros seems like both are winners in the spectrum, but likely better penetration with the HPS
Looking at 1000w HPS + Plasma OR dual Agros seems like both are winners in the spectrum, but likely better penetration with the HPS
