Garage grow, keeping it warm in winter

[Harabec]

~friend

can we please post pics/ give dimensions/schematics/ or any manner of specifics of how a "lung room" should be built or what it looks like. dont get me wrong, i can read, BUT im a visual learner.

Here is a diagram of what I did. Pretend this room is 12' x 24' which is the actualy room size. I chopped it in half in order to satisfy my wife's requirements for storage. She may let me fold it into a flip flop later.





The bottom pic is very early on but you can see how it will appear based on the diagram.

This particular schematic was not updated with my airflow pathes etc. Here is as a simplistic of a rundown as I can give you, my grow is in the garage as well. I insulated what you see here as much as possible. R-10 Foam and R-13 insulation in the walls, two layers of insulation of top, bare concrete (will have a small raised floor for buckets and res only).

I am running 3kw of lights, they are linked together with ducting and the resulting heat will be blown in the lung room. A cold air intake straight to the outside wall will bring cold air directly into the lung room where it will be warmed up the air from the lights and a small space heater. There will be a temperature controlled exhaust fan that will keep the main room cool. The fan that pulls air across the lights will draw air from the lung room through a passive intake into the room. This is what I came up with in battling the cold.

I have lots of updated pics but none of them are modified yet for forums, I will try to post them this week if you are interested.

 

[944s2]

run your lights at night, lights off during day... this will help aswell.

hiya,,as above post as long as its ok for you also a couple of small electric fans with thermostats,,kept away from your girls in the corners perhaps,,dry heat,,,keeps the ladies nice and warm but not too warm,,good luck,,,peace and safe growing s2

 

[orion6324]

dude!!!!!

you and i are in the exact same boat with our grows/rooms!!! i just finished "partitioning" my garage for this very same reason. nothing is finished about mine though.

it "had" garage doors on either end till i sealed up the one side where the grow is gonna be, it was a easy decision cause the door was dilapidated anyway. i have a crossbeam that i hung a double sided tarp from to properly separate the spaces, although theres a slight slope on teh roof of it, it pretty measures out to 10x12x9.

so right now its: a dbl sided tarp/two cinderblock walls/ one boarded up door-wall. alll i have left to do is deals up the spaces/ cracks/crevices to air/light tight it and then cut some intake vents near the bottom of the wall/door

anyway, i was thinking bout getting one of those propane heaters, i know that they give off CO2 but i figure since the plants are gonna be in there it would only benefit them right? and i would only burn it at night, or lights off, when the temps are at their most cold

i decided that i just wouldnt do any runs during the cold, maybe a couple of moms and cuts for when the season changes BUT if i could find a cheap effective way to warm things up then i could grow year round. a space eater aint gonna do shit for what ive got going on

i do plan to put up walls and insulation when teh finances become available to do so. for right now all i need is that 1000cfm vent fan and im pretty much done with the bulk of what i need to be ready for the season.

sorry for rambling, just cool to see someone else trying to combat the same issue.

LOL, nice to see I'm not the only one with this problem. You wouldn't happen to be in the rockies of Colorado to would you? I say we keep in touch on here as we build our rooms up and take from each others ideas. The heater idea is kinda what I'm leaning to now, the added Co2 keeps pulling me this way. On the other hand, I love the lung room idea with two separate flower rooms alternating 12 hour cycles. My idea, build one big room, split it into 3, maybe two 10x10s and a small one between them for the perfect environment to pull air from. Shit I'm as lost as ever now, lol. But, I do have some good ideas to build on now, which is why I posted here, so that's great. The 6400cfm industrial gable mount fan, I think, is gonna be awsome, I don't think keeping it in the 70's will be any trouble at all in the summer.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

LOL, nice to see I'm not the only one with this problem. You wouldn't happen to be in the rockies of Colorado to would you? I say we keep in touch on here as we build our rooms up and take from each others ideas. The heater idea is kinda what I'm leaning to now, the added Co2 keeps pulling me this way. On the other hand, I love the lung room idea with two separate flower rooms alternating 12 hour cycles. My idea, build one big room, split it into 3, maybe two 10x10s and a small one between them for the perfect environment to pull air from. Shit I'm as lost as ever now, lol. But, I do have some good ideas to build on now, which is why I posted here, so that's great. The 6400cfm industrial gable mount fan, I think, is gonna be awsome, I don't think keeping it in the 70's will be any trouble at all in the summer.

nah bro, ive been in NJ for bout 7yrs now, but i still consider myself a new transplant from NY. the biggest culture shock is coming from five boroughs and now having to navigate through damn near 50+ something boroughs.

honeslty wouldnt trade it for the world! my own lil slice of space i can do what i want with, wife doesnt mind and son is only 2yrs old so he's not in that "whats daddy doing in th garage" zone yet.

shittiest thing about me building this "lung room" is that i would have to give up the lil bit of mancave/smokeroom space i have. but i think i could swing it. was eventually gonna run the two lights that i have now, 1xHPS/1xMH so no flip-flop as of yet (lol, i remember when the flip-flop thread started and knew i would need to build one of them one day!)

anyway, things are starting to look up on the job side of things so i may be able to save up a lil scratch to bring all of this to verition. it would have been that big of a mancave anyway and i can always blaze outside or in my car (wife and i made the pact that the grow is cool just as nothign goes on in the house, smoke/cure/grow wise).

im stll trying to wrappmy head around the concept of it though, so that i can see how i could effectively build one for my space.

***is a lung room something that would have the "heat" in it (meaning ballasts, heat from ventilated lights, space heater, etc) adn the hot air from that room gets vented out into the flowering or growing areas?

***what should/can i have in my lung room to be effective enough to heat the entire space? reason why i took my grow out of the cab that was in the garage was that it was either too hot or too cold, so i figured if i just used the open space the heat that was generated in the first place should do me fine. (ie- if it was 95 in the garage it was 105 - 115 in the cab) if i do the propane heater then i definitely cant hang out in there.

for a 10x12x9 spot i dont see me needing something outside of a regular/grill sized propane tank for lights off use considering it would be during the day. im still testing things out, but once i finally seal off teh space im going to run the scenario for about a week (small space heater during the day, 12/12 cycle at night, veg cab lights on 16/8) to see how it all turns out.

im figuring with the plants in there and a circulating fan as well, it should garner even more heat

 

[Iffy]

6400cfm

6400cfm

space heater will work but you could also split the grow into a flipflop - so that one grow is always heating the other - this way you arent wasting kwh on space heaters.

6400 cfm? damn that is one strong fan - that probly can suck a J right out of yer hands.

Yeah, careful it doesn't suck the Trichs off your plants!!

 

[shuswap]

orion do you have a dehumidifier? they creat lots of heat and should be used as the night schedule things get moist without exhausting

 

[orion6324]

orion do you have a dehumidifier? they creat lots of heat and should be used as the night schedule things get moist without exhausting

Ya, I can throw a dehuey in there if needed. You might have missed it but I am exausting, big time. 6400cfm.

 

[orion6324]

Yeah, careful it doesn't suck the Trichs off your plants!!

LOL, ya you can't imagine, nice to know it's there if needed. It's on a dial so I can slow it down or speed it up if needed. That equals sweetness.

 

[shuswap]

your original post "Ok, so my grow is in my newly build garage in the mountains of Colorado. For the warmer months im sure the lights will work for keeping it warm. But, in the winter, when the lights are off, what is my best bet on keeping it warm in the winter when lights are out? Small space heaters? Or something else? Thanks in advance. " the only reason you would be venting at night is to keep humidity down,run a dehumey and your moisture is bang on and your adding heat,a double win no....?

 

[Harabec]

~Friend

***is a lung room something that would have the "heat" in it (meaning ballasts, heat from ventilated lights, space heater, etc) adn the hot air from that room gets vented out into the flowering or growing areas?

A lung room can be used to provide a 'control' by which environmental factors can be modified, stabilized, augmented or checked. Having heat-generating equipment located in the room makes great sense in that you can recycle and/or utilize energy and leverage it towards your objectives (ie heating your growroom). Dumping your excess heat from lights, ballasts, controllers etc into it decreases primary heating costs, your lung room brings cold and warm air together in a controlled fashion before venting it into your main room. If you brought cold air into your grow room, and then blew in hot air, the room would be hard to control and uneven. Premixing in a seperate room eliminates these issues.

In the event your lights, ballasts and other heat generating equipment is not sufficient, a theremostat controlled space heater can help make up the difference.

 

[DHF]

~Friend


A lung room can be used to provide a 'control' by which environmental factors can be modified, stabilized, augmented or checked. Having heat-generating equipment located in the room makes great sense in that you can recycle and/or utilize energy and leverage it towards your objectives (ie heating your growroom). Dumping your excess heat from lights, ballasts, controllers etc into it decreases primary heating costs, your lung room brings cold and warm air together in a controlled fashion before venting it into your main room. If you brought cold air into your grow room, and then blew in hot air, the room would be hard to control and uneven. Premixing in a seperate room eliminates these issues.

In the event your lights, ballasts and other heat generating equipment is not sufficient, a theremostat controlled space heater can help make up the difference.

Well said and agreed 1000%......but....

Many ways ta skin a mule......Lungrooms worked for me many many yrs.....

Folks with deep pockets employ mini-splits and buncha bells and whistles , but for the most bang for the buck on a budget.......

Lungrooms with flip rooms and dialed environmental equipment rock......

Peace......DHF...............

 

[jm420]

run your lights at night, lights off during day... this will help aswell.

You must not live in the pacific nw temps can be much colder during the day.or not change much during the winter .It mite save on the electric being off hours though

 

[Iffy]

Cold Air

Cold Air

~Friend


A lung room can be used to provide a 'control' by which environmental factors can be modified, stabilized, augmented or checked. Having heat-generating equipment located in the room makes great sense in that you can recycle and/or utilize energy and leverage it towards your objectives (ie heating your growroom). Dumping your excess heat from lights, ballasts, controllers etc into it decreases primary heating costs, your lung room brings cold and warm air together in a controlled fashion before venting it into your main room. If you brought cold air into your grow room, and then blew in hot air, the room would be hard to control and uneven. Premixing in a seperate room eliminates these issues.

In the event your lights, ballasts and other heat generating equipment is not sufficient, a theremostat controlled space heater can help make up the difference.

Hi Harabec,
I read your thread about the mixing of warm & cold air before insertion to the room & it set me worrying.
I'm about to run my first grow in my loftie and have a temp controlled fan ducted to the outer shell. It's always really cold in the outer room and I'm concerned now about the effect of drawing really cold air into the room. I don't have the space for a 'lung room' but I might be able to construct some kind of insulated box around the pipe.
Any suggestions??
Stay safe

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

~Friend


A lung room can be used to provide a 'control' by which environmental factors can be modified, stabilized, augmented or checked. Having heat-generating equipment located in the room makes great sense in that you can recycle and/or utilize energy and leverage it towards your objectives (ie heating your growroom). Dumping your excess heat from lights, ballasts, controllers etc into it decreases primary heating costs, your lung room brings cold and warm air together in a controlled fashion before venting it into your main room. If you brought cold air into your grow room, and then blew in hot air, the room would be hard to control and uneven. Premixing in a seperate room eliminates these issues.

In the event your lights, ballasts and other heat generating equipment is not sufficient, a theremostat controlled space heater can help make up the difference.

ooooooooooook, i got you/it now. that makes sense, i guess i could use one if i had two rooms going at the same time, but since all i'll have is the 1x400(MH or HPS) besides some floros, i woudl need constant heat as opposed to mixing anything. until i saw how expensive they were, i really would have loved to put a wood burning stove in there (i honestly wouldnt mind the work of maintaining it)

im actually fighting right now to keep all the cold air out by sealing the room up a lil as to have more airflow control. since its the bare cinderblock walls and the 3/4" thick ceiling/roof boards im going to need as much heat as i can put my hands on.

i wont be doing anything this winter anyway, but maybe for next winter, once the grow starts to pay for itself, i can put that back into it that way. what i really plan to do is finish that portion of the garage.

im thinking that since my space is kinda small i may just ditch the idea of having a dual mancave/grow room, get a propane heater in there and rock out that way. i need to start pricing and getting the specifics on them to see what i would need for my area. if im giving up my "personal" space then i might as well run both 400's at the same time.

for me it seems like its gonna be a propane heater for the winter/ 1100cfm vent fan with thermostat for the summer . . . sounds like a plan.

 

[Green Sky]

hey Orion,
is that fire extinguisher in your sig picture up to date? lol nice bud-cicle you got there

Gotta love speed controls for those exhaust fans!

 

[orion6324]

ooooooooooook, i got you/it now. that makes sense, i guess i could use one if i had two rooms going at the same time, but since all i'll have is the 1x400(MH or HPS) besides some floros, i woudl need constant heat as opposed to mixing anything. until i saw how expensive they were, i really would have loved to put a wood burning stove in there (i honestly wouldnt mind the work of maintaining it)

im actually fighting right now to keep all the cold air out by sealing the room up a lil as to have more airflow control. since its the bare cinderblock walls and the 3/4" thick ceiling/roof boards im going to need as much heat as i can put my hands on.

i wont be doing anything this winter anyway, but maybe for next winter, once the grow starts to pay for itself, i can put that back into it that way. what i really plan to do is finish that portion of the garage.

im thinking that since my space is kinda small i may just ditch the idea of having a dual mancave/grow room, get a propane heater in there and rock out that way. i need to start pricing and getting the specifics on them to see what i would need for my area. if im giving up my "personal" space then i might as well run both 400's at the same time.

for me it seems like its gonna be a propane heater for the winter/ 1100cfm vent fan with thermostat for the summer . . . sounds like a plan.

I think that's gonna be my plan as well.

 

[orion6324]

hey Orion,
is that fire extinguisher in your sig picture up to date? lol nice bud-cicle you got there

Gotta love speed controls for those exhaust fans!

LOL, thanks man. Yes, that sucker was huge. It's from back in 08, the strain was Chronic from Serious Seeds, and grown under a 600. Honestly, the weed kinda sucked, but wow, was it ever a good yielder.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

with the 10x12x10 space i have im thinking along the line of something like these:

Dyna-Glo 15k-25k BTU Propane Convection Heater:http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...tDisplay?catalogId=10&langId=-1&storeId=10051

OR

Dyna-Glo 15K LP Single Tank Top Heater - CSA :http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...tDisplay?catalogId=10&langId=-1&storeId=10051

OR

Thermoheat 15000 BTU Portable Propane Tank Top Heater: http://www.lowes.com/pd_107999-88644-TT15CL_4294765335__?productId=3262157&Ns=p_product_price|0
***i like this one since it gave more specifics of how much/ how long things can/would last and the price is fair for my needs***

since im gonna be running it at night or rather lights off and it seems as though i can get about 2days of heat from it, that doesnt seem to be a bad expense especially if it keeps money off of my power bill. $45+tax hit, $15-$20 to refill the tank fro about 3 months at a time (give or take) coupled with a circulation fan . . . .eh, not bad i think

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

I think it might be good to look at the different forma of heat exchange; radiant, conductive, and convective, involved in heating plants in a grow room. What is unique about a grow room is that we have an exhaust fan sucking the warm air out as fast or faster than we can heat it. Any method of heating the plants which involves heating the air first will experience significant energy losses as that warmed air is removed.

Radiant heat is what the sun directly provides. Photons radiated from our heat source pass relatively freely through the air and smack into solid surfaces within the room, whether they be walls, plastic containers, or plant tissue. When photons strike a surface they give some or all of their energy to that object in the form of heat. Think of what you experience moving from the shade out into the sun on a really cold day. Any radiant energy striking a plant, heats the plant directly, without ever transferring that thermal energy to the air molecules within the room (which are rapidly being withdrawn by the exhaust fan). Other surfaces heated this way will warm and emit radiant energy back into the room space. Any air molecules contacting the hot surface of the radiant heater or other warmed surfaces will be heated. An oil filled radiator does both processes.

Conductive heat exchange requires direct contact. with the material to be heated. In our case, the relevant situation is the use of heat mats under your plants. Thermal energy from the mats is conducted through the bottom of the plant containers directly into the soil to warm the roots, without ever heating the air which is being removed from the room by the exhaust fan. Placing a heater under your grow table will warm the table providing similar effects, except for the warm air rising around the perimeter of the table. This escaping heated air could be confined with a curtain around the table perimeter (maybe you don't want this if there is a reservoir under there you want to keep chilled).

With convective heat exchange warm surfaces release their thermal energy through conduction to air molecules which strike that surface. These heated air molecules move around and release their newly acquired thermal energy into any cooler surface they might strike, such as a plant leaf. Convective heat exchange works great, but in a grow room a lot of that energy is wasted, possibly the majority of it, because many of the heated air molecules are withdrawn through the exhaust before they can ever make contact with another surface within the room.

In my small grow space I use heat mats under my ebb and flow trays. The heat conducted into the growing medium warms the roots directly. Heat radiates directly into the undersides of the leaves. The warm growing medium, trays, and table heat the air which then rises up through the plant mass warming the vegetation through convective heat exchange before being sucked out the exhaust. I believe this to be the most efficient heating method, but it is not suitable for all growing styles and scales.

Radiant heaters might be efficient if they are positioned to radiate the vegetative surfaces. Unfortunately this places the heater relatively high in the room so that any air heated directly by the hot surface of the heater will be above the plants themselves. A circulation fan might be beneficial here. There are ceramic radiant heaters made to screw into regular light sockets (check reptile supplies). Note that black plastic trays and plant containers will absorb radiant heat while white plastic surfaces will reflect a great deal.

So take from this what you will or can. Maybe it doesn't relate to your grow situation, but I hope someone finds this useful.

 

[Iffy]

I think it might be good to look at the different forma of heat exchange; radiant, conductive, and convective, involved in heating plants in a grow room. What is unique about a grow room is that we have an exhaust fan sucking the warm air out as fast or faster than we can heat it. Any method of heating the plants which involves heating the air first will experience significant energy losses as that warmed air is removed.

Great post CR,
Keep them coming