WOS AK Landraces Cheap Chinese LED closet experiment

[BrownThumb]

I can already tell you there is no heat sink. I think the deal is, you have to keep these cheap suckers cool enough and they'll kick some ass for you, but if you're in a position like me where you're working in a small enclosed space, it's not easy. Max operating temp is supposed to be 104f, if you were curious. I basically leave the closet door partially open and drape towel over the door to block out most of the light. I am looking at tents and such because I need a veg and clone solution too, but money is tight. Back to the light, I do not think it kicks ass like a 1000 HID or anything like that, but it doesn't suck completely. I am seeing small nugs probably 3" from the light, so not too bad. I have also learned that I can bring the light way closer than what the manufacturer suggests. That is one of the things you get to learn growing vertically that you might not get as fast in scrog or whatever. I may get bleaching on the tallest of the plants which is now 9" from the light, but there are others that are shorter that will tell me exactly how close I can get. If I remember I'll show some gut shots whenever the PSU's arrive.

 

[BrownThumb]

Sativa vs. Indica comparative flowering shots

Sativa vs. Indica comparative flowering shots

Here are a couple of shots to contrast the flowering speed of the Afghan Indo's vs the Bhutanese Sativa. All were changed to 13/11 on 10/8/12..so we're around 48 or so days from the trigger. That sat better start throwing some serious flowers soon or I may have to put it to death...JK.....sort of...took a cut last night so I can do a grow at some point where I treat it properly rather than this oh, by the way sort of deal I have right now. The Sativa has passed up all but the tallest of the Afghans and continues to grow, but again...just starting to flower after approximately 7 weeks.

 

[S-V-K]

I can already tell you there is no heat sink. I think the deal is, you have to keep these cheap suckers cool enough and they'll kick some ass for you, but if you're in a position like me where you're working in a small enclosed space, it's not easy. Max operating temp is supposed to be 104f, if you were curious. I basically leave the closet door partially open and drape towel over the door to block out most of the light. I am looking at tents and such because I need a veg and clone solution too, but money is tight. Back to the light, I do not think it kicks ass like a 1000 HID or anything like that, but it doesn't suck completely. I am seeing small nugs probably 3" from the light, so not too bad. I have also learned that I can bring the light way closer than what the manufacturer suggests. That is one of the things you get to learn growing vertically that you might not get as fast in scrog or whatever. I may get bleaching on the tallest of the plants which is now 9" from the light, but there are others that are shorter that will tell me exactly how close I can get. If I remember I'll show some gut shots whenever the PSU's arrive.

Thanks mate.
That's what I was after because price is so good

Indica is beautiful but that sativa is somehow shy to produce fruits-bitch

 

[BrownThumb]

PSU's arrived

PSU's arrived

PSU + spare arrived as promised after being requested at 12:05 AM on Thanksgiving. If I had bought this unit in the US...it would have cost me at least one day. Here's a shot of the PSU for your viewing displeasure. It looks like there is a little HSU inside the little PSU. Yep, so 3 days later from China. A+ on service from LG so far. Oh yeah, and the lights work!

The question remains whether this is in fact the issue, so I will follow up on that later after installation.

I also included a shot of my current clone chamber, so please try to control your envy....yep, wooden box w/ old CFL hanging from a cord...bitchin'!!!

 

[BrownThumb]

So...... LG kicks ass on the service side so far. Light repaired and some good pics for the LED wonks around here...you know who I am thinking of, no names will be used, but you know who you are!

My final thoughts on the matter are that heat is as usual undoubtedly the issue, so for those who have the right cooling and/or space to go for the economical solution like I did, you should at least consider what you're hearing here before you go pay 3 or 4 times what is necessary for good to excellent results. Good and excellent are subjective and we're talking my version. Some may think what I have cooking is laughable I am sure, that's why I say it's subjective.

Edit: Sorry about the shitty pics.....the width in the one with the tape is 22". One other thought, LG did a good job of wiring this thing, all was super neatly tie wrapped and other than the lack of a HSU, this thing seems well worth the dough based on what others are paying for comparable units. This unit is a stand-out due to its large footprint, as well. If you look at the bulk of the other units out there at 600 Watts, they're smaller. As a matter of fact, I have not seen one this large at the same wattage.

 

[vukman]

Coming late to this party.........as usual for me...:-(......sorry about that.

Just read through the whole thread and so sorry to hear about the problems but then again, they came through for you with flying colours on the warranty so.......I mean you can complain but as you said, it could have been a lot worse. That's the growing Gods looking out for ya..

Just looking at the layout of the unit there. Could have been substantially better if they would have had 5 fans though. One in each corner and then one in the middle. Also, around another inch or so of sheet metal on the 'skirt' so there would be more room between the fans and drivers and the 'heatsink'.

That's just my two-bits on the design side of things but they definitely seem to be doing a good job on the grow side of things which is where it really counts.

Good Luck

 

[Phychotron]

I suspected those had no heat sink. I've always been skeptical of lights without a heat sink. Not just because it might be more prone to failure, but also because it degrades the diodes faster when operating at higher temperature.

. LEDs and their electronic power supplies like it cool, and those that are driven hard will run hot and, resultantly, fail quickly.

http://www.farmenergycentre.co.uk/database/how-long-will-your-led-lighting-last/

 

[BrownThumb]

I see two wonks came by to visit...LOL Thanks for stopping in Vukman and Phycotron! I always appreciate your thoughts, both of you.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the replacement PSU's were both slightly different in design. They are vented, the original units are not. maybe they corrected a design flaw or perhaps the maker of the PSU's is saving in production costs by using less plastic...maybe both? Maybe neither?

 

[BrownThumb]

Just looking at the layout of the unit there. Could have been substantially better if they would have had 5 fans though. One in each corner and then one in the middle. Also, around another inch or so of sheet metal on the 'skirt' so there would be more room between the fans and drivers and the 'heatsink'.

That's just my two-bits on the design side of things but they definitely seem to be doing a good job on the grow side of things which is where it really counts.
Good Luck

I was thinking long term this unit could be re-used and modified. This is my first "real" LED..the little Blackstar 180 is cute and effective for tiny spaces, but.. So being as I have some crafting skills, maybe down the road when this thing takes a big shit I will be looking at re-using the chassis at the least. I may even try your suggestions on fan placement because that's pretty easy except for cutting the holes cleanly, which may also end up being easier than I think right now. I already have 12v fan lead splitters due to my computer building hobby, so...

 

[BrownThumb]

Last clone candidates from batch taken for experimentation

Last clone candidates from batch taken for experimentation

I made the mistake of doubting myself on cloning by hand. Of course, soon thereafter I had success in both rock wool and now peat pellets. However, for this part of the journey, I will be using a cheapo I guess DWC bucket.. Shows you what I know about hydro, aye? Anyway, these are the last four cuts that I will take form this batch (unless I screw them all up) and I will be trying to root them in said bucket. Pics of candidates.

 

[Phychotron]

I wonder if you'd be better off cutting some holes and mounting the PSUs on the top of the fixture instead of inside it.

 

[BrownThumb]

cheapo clone bucket

cheapo clone bucket

@Phychotron ~ Yeah, the PSU placement was based on cleanliness of design over thermal management, IMO. Even if they had spaced the PSU's out internally (There's a shitload of room.....) it would have been better, again, IMO.

Now there is one other part in there and maybe it is sort of a control module...it's another little black box that looks like it feeds the PSU's...I think. It is off by itself on one side, then of course the wiring in the middle on the side controls the on off of veg vs bloom.

The light is actually like a frickin' Yugo kind of deal...not fancy, but with a lot of the features people want. If I do not have any more problems w/ PSU's burning out, I will upgrade that from Yugo to like Honda or Toyota, something like that. Nice that they kicked me a spare on the replacement.

OK..so on to the reason I ended up here... The new cheapo e-bay clone bucket set-up using 14 watt cfl (red not blue, boo hoo) an extension cord, a plug to Socket and the shipping box as the enclosure. I had to rush it because I am a dumb-shit and had the cuts on the light w/ out knowing it and sizzled the best of them... @#$%. In other words, get'em protected in the box before you @#$% them up any more than you already have. Anyway, it's a quiet unit. I dropped a bit of white vinegar in the bucket to drop the ph and there is a micro qty of superthrive in there. I did roll them in cheap rooting compound, but that probably washed off in about 5 minutes so that was questionable before I even did it....

Them are some clean lines, huh? Kinda sexy is a UPS sort of way.

 

[BrownThumb]

Day 54 from light cycle change. The soil in the pots with the two sick plants is super compacted and the soil does get coldish at night, so I am not going to[ be able to do much this late in the game.

I have harvested many excellent seeds from 2 of the Afghans (better than what I bought to start with in fact in regards to size and very uniform coloring) and will let the third and what I thought would be the best pairing based on visuals and smells to ripen until whenever.

I also now have 20+ seeds of the Bhutanese and Afghan cross. They're some tiny seeds, just like the parents, but I am betting the offspring have bigger ovum and therefore bigger seeds. I look forward to playing with those down the road a piece.

Of the 3 Afghans I have, one is runt and really a waste of space, although it does have an interesting orange sort of scent to it. Of the two that you are seeing in pictures, the one that is shorter but with fuller buds and and an overall healthier look has much fluffier soil for whatever reason and that may be why it's still pumping and the other seems almost stalled due to the def issue.

These are supposed to get chopped in 55 days per WOS, but that's tomorrow and I think you will agree, these are not done for at least a week or two, although I expect one to finish faster than the two others, fluffy soil.

I also included a comparative shot of an Afghan vs the Bhutanese Sativa for edumacational porpoises.

In the case of the Bhutanese, the leaves have always been sort of curly, but now they are also doing an inverted canoe as well as clawing. It's sharing a pot with the tallest of the Afghans which is also showing malaise.

 

[BrownThumb]

pics left out of last post. I hit post before the upload had completed...hate that.

 

[Phychotron]

OK..so on to the reason I ended up here... The new cheapo e-bay clone bucket set-up using 14 watt cfl (red not blue, boo hoo) an extension cord, a plug to Socket and the shipping box as the enclosure. I had to rush it because I am a dumb-shit and had the cuts on the light w/ out knowing it and sizzled the best of them... @#$%. In other words, get'em protected in the box before you @#$% them up any more than you already have. Anyway, it's a quiet unit. I dropped a bit of white vinegar in the bucket to drop the ph and there is a micro qty of superthrive in there. I did roll them in cheap rooting compound, but that probably washed off in about 5 minutes so that was questionable before I even did it....

for my cloner I just use tap water, ph~7.5 and a half capful of superthrive, since it contains IBA. I also scrape the skin off a little bit of the stem and the roots grow out of the damaged area. You dont need the rooting compound since its already in the superthive. I usually get roots in 4-6 days. You also dont need to adjust the pH since it is not trying to absorb nutrients, just root.

day 8 in the cloner

you might consider upgrading your lid to a round tray like mine so it just sits right in and doesn't leak and comes right out. I have 13 holes (1 for the power cord) and it is broken between a few of them, but it still holds. Then I even load up to three plants per collar.

 

[BrownThumb]

for my cloner....

Nice! I will do straight tap water and superthrive the next time. You say a cap-full of the superthrive? I was under the impression you needed to be real sparing, but if that's what you do, the results speak for themselves.

In regards to the lid...I was noodling how i would go about using the bucket as a grow unit in between cloning sessions, so a modified lid is certainly something i have been thinking about anyway. I don't need lots of clones because my space is only 2x2, but if this makes my success ratio go up to close to 100%, I will be happy, even if I do not end up deploying the unit as a hydro style grow bucket.

Thank you for the good advice!

Edit: BTW where did you get your tray insert lid thing?

 

[Phychotron]

I said a half capful, but the stuff wont mess the plants up if you use a capful, just waste it. I think the real kicker is the scrape, as those usually have roots like a champ, compared to non-scraped which will shoot out one or two roots after a longer period. I picked up a 100 pack of x-acto blades and use a new one each session. I make sure to get a least 1 node in the mist zone, and lightly scrape 2-3 thin strips down the stem and make sure no loose cells are sticking out and then put in a plate filled with water and cut @ 45º before loading it while running. The timer is 15/30 on/off and helps the water stay at a good temperature, using a 250gph pump.

That is a standard round tray from a hydro store for ~$3. The only modification to the bucket is that I had to drill a small hole at the top for the fishing line support--used to solve having to buy a few pvc pieces and making a proper manifold.

 

[BrownThumb]

OK, half cap...got it. I am trying to run without a on-off timer right now, but will pony up if I don't get good results from this go. That would be another thing you're doing that I have not. It looks like my set-up slime's up pretty quickly; there was a film when I changed the water out today. Water was maybe a bit warm, but not by much, so I filled the bucket up with a little more water this time. I still have scraggly branches to cut if I have to start over, too, so... Anyway, thanks again for the pointers, I do appreciate it!

 

[BrownThumb]

....The timer is 15/30 on/off and helps the water stay at a good temperature, using a 250gph pump.

That is a standard round tray from a hydro store for ~$3. The only modification to the bucket is that I had to drill a small hole at the top for the fishing line support--used to solve having to buy a few pvc pieces and making a proper manifold.

Phycotron, I went ahead and ordered a cycle timer for the clone bucket since I saw blackness developing on some of the cuts (which I attribute to the water being too warm). Right now is about 4.5 days and I see maybe one little tiny root on one of the cuts, the rest pppffttt. BTW, I probably will look into getting a lid like yours, it makes sense.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!

 

[BrownThumb]

A couple pics of a "monster clone" from this batch going from 5-3-2-1 blades per leaf. Yep, this is my first successful clone done in rock wool. I killed a handful in the process, but it's a good one. I am still not totally convinced this is best of the ladies, but I have at least one or two cuts of the other potential keeper that look like they are taking, so success.