Will this relay work?

[Adwarrior]

Trying to set up a flip flop for a 2 ballast 4 light setup. 1000 watt lamps on magnetic ballast. Everything 120v. Two lights draw around 20 amps, so I'm looking for a 30 amp, DPDT relay with 8 pins which I'll use with a regular plug-in 15 amp timer (though I do have an intermatic timer I could also use if anyone thinks it's advantageous) to trigger.
I'm also considering timing the ballasts to shut down just before flip in order to prolong the life of the relay.
Haven't been able to find the Dayton relay here in the Great White North, but I have found this:
http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...tric/W199AX-14/?qs=dY%2bBECfYuwVSJg5dUX5reA==

Any thoughts on it's suitability?

 

[caljim]

It looks like that relay has a 40 amp rating for the contacts and the coil is 120v. You could run three 1ks on that. Any 120v timer you like will work just fine as a trigger. Thats where I like to use the programmable Intermatics with battery backup.

I would shut down at flip for a second to avoid the wear and tear on the contacts.

Let us know how it works for ya.

 

[growshopfrank]

the relay will be fine
for a 2 ballast 4 lamp show you will need 2 relays
considering the low cycling duty of a flip if using cap and core ballasts cold switching isn't necessary
if this is a DIY project be sure that the wiring around the relay doesn't interfere with the moving parts of the relay
FWIW the proper box for these relays try square d #9991UE1 this makes the job easier and better looking

 

[Adwarrior]

I thought that relay would be good for both ballasts as looking at the data sheet it's double pole and has 8 pin outs, which I believe is: 2 for the timer, 2 for power in and 4 for power out.

I plan to use a large utility box, so that I'm able to connect my plugs directly to the box itself, as per some of the other flip flops here.

Here's my wiring diagram. Any critique or advice would be appreciated.

 

[Adwarrior]

Missed something you said Growshopfrank; so, as I'm using non digital ballasts, are you saying they don't need to be cycled down before the flip?
I'm not entirely clear how digital and non-digital ballasts are different in this respect.

 

[growshopfrank]

many digital ballasts have a different start frequency then their run frequency so it a good idea to let the ballast use its "soft start" when switching lamps

 

[growshopfrank]

I thought that relay would be good for both ballasts as looking at the data sheet it's double pole and has 8 pin outs, which I believe is: 2 for the timer, 2 for power in and 4 for power out.

while it is physically possible to connect 2 ballasts 4 lamps to one relay folks have found that often this results in some unfavorable harmonics that cause erratic functioning of the lamps

 

[Agaricus]

Why are you switching on the load side of the ballasts? Seems it would be better to switch line side. No worries.

 

[Agaricus]

I'd go line side.

Use solid state relays like: http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...=sGAEpiMZZMtoEuprvOlUo5thZaO4/ZraxWeWSjSPD44=

2 of them, one to the hot side of each receptacle.

Drive them with a little pilot relay like: http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...=sGAEpiMZZMtSzCF3XBhmWwIxfzEi/9KA11iTgMS7fow=

Don't forget to buy a socket for it.

The SSR is zero-voltage switching. The pilot's contacts carry almost no current. They should last forever and a day at that low duty cycle.

 

[Adwarrior]

Not quite sure what you mean by "switching on the load side" Agaruicus? Are you referring to the timers between the supply and the ballasts, as those were there when I thought I needed to cycle down the ballast before the flip. Or am I on the wrong track completely?

 

[growshopfrank]

line= power to ballast
load= ballast to lamp
I can see using a ssr to switch input but I'm not aware of anyone using a ssr for a flip function I would only use a relay rated for at least 600V AC for a flip

 

[Adwarrior]

line= power to ballast
load= ballast to lamp
I can see using a ssr to switch input but I'm not aware of anyone using a ssr for a flip function I would only use a relay rated for at least 600V AC for a flip

So if the switch (relay) was on the line side wouldn't that then switch between ballasts instead of between pairs of lamps?

 

[growshopfrank]

yes that would switch the ballasts on and off

 

[Hammerhead]

I have my relays on the line side.

 

[Adwarrior]

So, am I missing something here, but isn't the object of a flip flop to utilise 2 lamps with one ballast. I don't see how that would work switching the line side, though it would be preferable if it were possible.
Can you enlighten me Hammerhead?

 

[Hammerhead]

If your doing a flip that's correct here is a wiring schematic for that..

 

[Adwarrior]

Thanks for that, Handy. Still can't get my head around having this on the line side though.

 

[Hammerhead]

If you have 2 relays you can do it on the line side. you need 2 timers 1 for ea relay. 1 on 1 off then it reveres. The off is now on the on is now off. really easy to do. The schematic I posted is for only a single ballest flip.


In your drawing the relay would go right above the timer. You would not need those extra outlets. Its simple my friend... 1 ballest is on the other is off the timers tell when ea ballast turns on. Typically people use 1 ballest like the schematic I posted that for a single ballest 2 light flip..

 

[Adwarrior]

I'm such an idiot, I just realized looking at that diagram it dawned on me that with 8 pins on the relay I still need a relay per ballast...Doh. I see what you were saying now GrowshopFrank.

Could I just pigtail and double up, as it's a 30 amp relay and each light draws around 9 amps. Reason I now want to do this is I've already ordered the relay and it's en route.

 

[Adwarrior]

If you have 2 relays you can do it on the line side. you need 2 timers 1 for ea relay. 1 on 1 off then it reveres. The off is now on the on is now off. really easy to do. The schematic I posted is for only a single ballest flip.

I think I see. I shall draw it out, I'm sure that will better help me understand it.

Cheers