General Rundown of Grow Room Setup

[bodhi__]

Secret Jard. 5x5x6.5 tent
active air 6 in inline fan
6x20 phat filter
ozone degenrator
6in 400cfm exhaust fan
600W MH and 600W HPS ran simultaneously for veg and flower
1 month (full 4 weeks) veg at 18/6
plan to top and LST 4 of the 5 plants. (MAYBE SCROG??)
expect 10-11 weeks flower 12/12 flush
2 600W sg lite ballast
5x 7gal pots of organic soil (seedling soil-->light veg soil-->subcool's super soil.)



Looking to maximize my efficiency with what I have available. Plant to light to space ratio for best yield in organic soil without negatively impacting taste and potency. Will be feeding with water only may use some nitrogen supps for veg state.

Wat is the difference between scrog and lst. Is it that scrog is a general grid of strings preset to the germination of the flower and then adjusted slightly, upon growth of the plant; whereas LST is more individual to each branch. Where each separate one is tied down in its own direction allowing for an even canopy on one plant?

Open to wat you think about the lights? 1200W too much for 5 plants? Originally thought to go with only 600W for each cycle but seeing as I have the resources...why not run both all the way through...? Will it harm my plants negatively? I could always just throw a bucket or two in there or a smaller strain.

 

[CasioCalculator]

I am not sure what your intake temps will be but I would use either an 8in fan or two 6in if you plan on using both of the lights simultaneously. I have the identical tent and use a 1000w MH in veg and HPS for flower. I don't think it would be necessary to run both for veg but if you want to and can keep the tent cool enough (why i suggest a better or additional fan) then it wouldn't hurt during flower. LST allows you to manipulate auxin levels to help the lower branches catch up with the ones on top. SCROGing allows you to create as flat of a canopy as possible which is useful since the amount of light reaching the top of a traditionally grown plant will be significantly less than the bottom (double the distance from the light and you get 1/4th the amount of photons). Honestly if you are to scrog I would just go with 4 plants as it will allow you to space them evenly apart. Are you planning on keeping the ozone gen. in the tent? I grow hydro so I can't comment on your soil plan. Just keep in mind that nothing goes completely according to plan especially on your first grow (just finished mine) so be prepared to adapt as new challenges come up. Best of luck bro.

 

[bodhi__]

I was planning on using an additional 6 in or just switching to an 8 in but I will see wat i think is gonna work best for my setup. Ok so I kinda had it backwards on LST and SCROG. any clue which would provide a better yield? SCROG 4 plants or LST 5? Yes the ozone gen will be in the tent. Considered moving it out though to avoid another thing increasing the temps. And yea so I've heard, I'm hoping to just be prepared for anything possible to go wrong and have the ability to anticipate and adapt to it when it comes. Resource wise, I think I am set for problems to occur as I have an easily accessible supply.

 

[CasioCalculator]

I believe if you are able to anticipate how your plants will grow and react to the training through the screen (which is dependent on strain/pheno), you will can have better results with scroging. Putting a screen over you plants however, won't guarantee better results then every other method. There are many different ways to grow this plant but every method is done for a very specific purpose and if the grower does not understand why he/she is doing what they are doing then it serves little purpose. I planned to scrog but ended up just topping and doing some lst and I don't regret a thing. I am glad I got to see the role auxin plays on the plants growth and definitely feel like I learned something. Reading is one thing but doing is learning.

Always remember though, this is your first of hopefully many rounds and it won't be perfect. You are off to a good start joining a community such as this and hopefully in 3-4 months you'll have something you will truly be proud to smoke. As I said, I ended up just topping and lsting for my first run and with 4 plants with a 4 week veg I got 21oz total. Definitely not record breaking but I will have enough to last me till this run is over with so I am cool with that. Granted, I was not in soil but was doing DWC in 5 gal buckets with the lucas formula so your mileage may vary.

Also, I would rethink the ozone gen thing. From what I have read, not only can high concentration of ozone be harmful to your plants health, too much exposure can also neutralize (kill) the terpenes. So even if your plants health is not negatively effected, you will end up with grass that smells like well, grass. Ozone gens are best placed outside the grow but honestly, I would upgrade the filter to something along the lines of a Can66. Used that for my tent and it worked well. Not the cheapest filter out there but honestly odor control is THE most important aspect of your grow. I don't know if you're a card holder or not and honestly it doesn't matter, NOBODY needs to know what you are doing.

 

[bodhi__]

Thank you for your comment, it is very helpful. 21 oz total with 4 weeks is not bad at all what kind of setup were u running, how many watts and what kinda area were you working with? I have heard such things about the ozone gen but I figured if I placed it outside my tent I would be alright. Not a cardholder so stealth is very important to me. I have no issue what so ever spending the extra few dollars in order to hide my grow. Can66 you say? also, do you know if the ozone gen placed outside tent will be harmful too the plants terpenes still?

As for the last and scrolling I have been doing my research just not entirely sure which method I want to go. I feel that SCROGGING may not be nearly as beneficial as topping and LST but that is just a personally opinion of mine I have put through together based on my research and have yet to practice. With only 4/5 plants in a 5x5 area I think LST and Topping would give a greater yield than scrog. Correct me if I am wrong but I'm quite sure this will be the method that i choose.

THanks and casio, would like to hear about that run you mentioned as well if you get a chance.

 

[CasioCalculator]

I believe if you place the ozone gen outside the tent it is more ideal. Keep in mind high concentrations of ozone can also be detremental to your health as well. Ozone is best placed in the exhaust duct going outside. If you oversize your fan/filter to your situation you shouldn't need to use an ozone gen. If I were you I would save the money you would spend on the ozone gen and use it towards getting an 8in fan and something along the lines of a can66 or even can75. Another good thing about over sizing your fan is you can use a dimmer to run it a little slower so while it is not as loud as a 6in fan on full blast, it is still pushing more air (stealth).

My setup was in a secret jardin DR150 (5'x5') with a 1000w mh for veg and 1000w hps for flower with a 6in inline fan to keep things cool. I ran hydro (deep water culture) initially I used 5 gal buckets but ended up taking the lids off and putting them on top of 10 gal tubs. I did that for a few reasons, the grow was not at my residence and I was not able to check on them daily (water level, EC, pH) and doubling my nute solution lead to a more stable environment for them. I used the lucas formula with general hydro nutes at a 2 to 1 ratio of bloom to micro. The true lucas formula calls for an EC ~2.0 but my plants didn't respond well to such a high nutrient concentration so I ran closer to ~1.2.

Controlling the environment became my biggest issue. Let me back up and say the tent was located in an unfinished basement and in the dead of summer in the deep south with a 1000w light, shit got hot.... too hot (too humid as well). So I had to do something. I ended up getting a 5k BTU window unit and built boxes around the front and back Like so and had that recirculating the air bringing my temps from ~90f to ~75f. I also used an 18in oscillating fan as well as a few of those 7in honeywell fans to keep shit moving around. Honestly I should have just gone with a 600w light but being how I am, I have to go big or go home. I have since gotten a 8in fan as well which I will use to exhaust the tent/attached to the filter. The 6 inch fan will now just be pulling air from outside the tent through my air cooled hood to the outside of the tent.

As stated before, I wanted to scrog but I didn't find it practical unless I did a single screen per bucket. The reason being, I have to take the top of the bucket off to change/check nute solution and if my plant is strung through a screen, I could damage it trying to lift off the bucket top. I ended up topping 2 plants and fimming 2 others (more or less the same result) and then I screwed eye hooks to the lids and used zip ties to train my bitches. I split two of my plant's main stems (should have seen the look on my face) but was able to save them with some zip ties and I learned something in the process. After getting my girls nice and bushy and looking how I wanted I flipped them to 12/12. I didn't do too much to them after that other then keep the nute solution where it should be.

I had tried to build a diy carbon filter but it failed to keep the odors under control. Not sure what went wrong, maybe the quality of the carbon wasn't up to par or I wasn't able to pack it as tightly as a pre-manufactured one it definitely wasn't the quantity as I used ~50lbs of carbon. Never the less, it was not doing the job. Time after time I have read, over size your exhaust fan and oversize the filter for the fan. This is why I suggest something bigger then the 6x20 phat which is rated for 450 cfm I believe. Everyone always said Can filters are the bees knees though expensive so that is what I went for. I honestly didn't look into other options so I don't know how well others perform. I had already spent ~$70 on materials to build the filter that didn't work so I wasn't going to risk it on a possibly sub par brand that would leave me more to be desired. Also, Can tell you the min and max air flow rating of all filters so that is very helpful.

I am sure I still missed a few things but that pretty much wraps up how things went for me. All in all everything worked out and I have got some good smoke to last me until this round is over. Am I completely satisfied with everything I did? Hell no, I am the first to admit I was and still am a NOOB. But, it was my first go at it and I accomplished what most stoners only dream about. Growing is learning and making it to harvest is passing the class. Now I am on to my next lesson.

 

[bodhi__]

very cool and that was your run yielding you 21 zips? how many plants did you have going and why did you say that you should have gone with the 600w instead? I hear ya on the south shit gets a lil hot n humid down here but there are solutions glad you found some. I hope that an 8in fan will do the trick. How was your smell and what strains did you run? Smell is my biggest fear. I basically want it to be as non existent as possible! ok here's my last question and I'll be off your case. How bad did it affect your electric on a monthly basis, what would you say was your average increase in months between grow and non grow times of the year?

 

[CasioCalculator]

First off, don't worry about all the questions, the purpose of this site is to learn; which I have, and now I feel like it is my duty to help what little I can where I can.

Yeah, this was the 21 zip run. I ran 4 plants 2 G13's Pineapple express & 2 G13's white widow. If I would have know about seedbay when I started I would have gotten something from there. Possibly ACE genetics or BOG as I believe in supporting the community. But attitude was running some crazy G13 promo so I got a bunch of beans for cheap. The reason I said I should have gone with the 600 is due to the heat issues. I knew the 1k would be hot but for whatever reason I just didn't think it would be an issue. I ended up getting brown algae slime on my roots (luckily during veg and not flower) and that is what forced me to get the a/c. Once my temps dropped, I was able to get my root issue under control. Now that the temps have dropped, my tent is around 75f with out the a/c so thats good.

I hear you on not wanting to make you neighborhood/apt building smell like a skunk. When my DIY filter wasn't working as well as I had hoped, I got by for a bit with ONA products. I took my exhaust duct and ran it into a 10gal tub filled with a 1:10 solution of this stuff in water. I then mixed the dilute (this shit is strong) ona solution with some of these. Those crystals will hold a ton of water (ona solution) and slowly release it and it is reusable so once it dries out, you can just add more solution to it and your'e good to go. I tried to make it as dilute as possible while still covering the skunk stench. I am not sure if you're going to be venting directly outside or not. If so, and you don't feel like relying on just a carbon filter, you could always get one of the ozone gens that goes into your exhaust duct. But ozone also has a distinct smell. I was going to try to supplement with ozone but ended up just getting a high quality filter that is oversized for my application.

Where I live, electricity costs ~$.08/kwh. Now I was running a 1k watt light so every hour that is on, it draws one kwh. So during veg (18/6) the light cost ~43 dollars to run/ month add in all the other stuff such as pumps and fans it added about $55 dollars a month and during flower the light cost ~$29/month and with everything added id say it was about $40-$45 more. So honestly, it wasn't too bad. Definitely nothing to be worried about.

 

[bodhi__]

First off, don't worry about all the questions, the purpose of this site is to learn; which I have, and now I feel like it is my duty to help what little I can where I can.

Yeah, this was the 21 zip run. I ran 4 plants 2 G13's Pineapple express & 2 G13's white widow. If I would have know about seedbay when I started I would have gotten something from there. Possibly ACE genetics or BOG as I believe in supporting the community. But attitude was running some crazy G13 promo so I got a bunch of beans for cheap. The reason I said I should have gone with the 600 is due to the heat issues. I knew the 1k would be hot but for whatever reason I just didn't think it would be an issue. I ended up getting brown algae slime on my roots (luckily during veg and not flower) and that is what forced me to get the a/c. Once my temps dropped, I was able to get my root issue under control. Now that the temps have dropped, my tent is around 75f with out the a/c so thats good.

I hear you on not wanting to make you neighborhood/apt building smell like a skunk. When my DIY filter wasn't working as well as I had hoped, I got by for a bit with ONA products. I took my exhaust duct and ran it into a 10gal tub filled with a 1:10 solution of this stuff in water. I then mixed the dilute (this shit is strong) ona solution with some of these. Those crystals will hold a ton of water (ona solution) and slowly release it and it is reusable so once it dries out, you can just add more solution to it and your'e good to go. I tried to make it as dilute as possible while still covering the skunk stench. I am not sure if you're going to be venting directly outside or not. If so, and you don't feel like relying on just a carbon filter, you could always get one of the ozone gens that goes into your exhaust duct. But ozone also has a distinct smell. I was going to try to supplement with ozone but ended up just getting a high quality filter that is oversized for my application.

Where I live, electricity costs ~$.08/kwh. Now I was running a 1k watt light so every hour that is on, it draws one kwh. So during veg (18/6) the light cost ~43 dollars to run/ month add in all the other stuff such as pumps and fans it added about $55 dollars a month and during flower the light cost ~$29/month and with everything added id say it was about $40-$45 more. So honestly, it wasn't too bad. Definitely nothing to be worried about.

very interesting I actually considered doing the g13 pineapple express myself and might give it a try now. I will definitely have to check more out on that smell control.

So what would be optimum for the 5x5 area with 5 plants? would a 600W suffice without losing too much of your yield or is a 1000W your best bet if the heat can be controlled?

 

[CasioCalculator]

People say that it is best to go with ~50w/sqft when it comes to HID lighting. So 1000w/(5'x5')=40w/ft^2 which is definitely better then the 600 which would be 24w/ft^2. Either one you will be able to grow killer plants but with the 600, the edges of your canopy may suffer. Keep in mind though, you will most likely only utilize 4'x4' or so as you will need room to move around.b Is the tent going to be in a climate controlled room? Will you be venting your exhaust into the room that your tent is in? Since you will be growing soil, the temps can be a bit higher with out running into problems. My air temps even in the summer never got above ~88f which is high but not detrimental to plant health. I ran into problems with my reservoirs being too warm which lends to less dissolved oxygen as well as a breeding ground for fungi/algae. If I were to of had a 600 I don't think things would have gotten as warm. Another thing to keep in mind, 600w lamps are more efficient then 1k so you get slightly more lumens/watt running the 600. But honestly I think that 1k is the perfect size for a 5x5 tent. You could always get a 600 just to get your feet wet and add another when you can make the most of it. It really depends on how well you will be able to control your environment. Environment > Light.

 

[bodhi__]

Just got a curve ball WIH some plans well potentially. May have to down size room to 3x3x6.5 ft. Would like to know if a 600w and 3 plant setup would work in that space. Any suggestions on light ? Would a 600w be too much for that area?

 

[CasioCalculator]

For that space 400 would be minimum and anything over 600 would be over kill. If you can keep the temps down, I would go with the 600 as it is only 200 more watts yet puts out 2x as much light based on lumens. Also, when your situation changes and you have more space to work with, you can always throw in another 600 or two and you will be set. My buddy went from CFL to 400 and once he saw my 1k he was so disappointed with not at least getting a 600. He ended up getting a 1k but we are both in 5x5 tents so it works out for our needs. How do you plan on having the 3 plants set up? All in one row or are they going to be staggered?

 

[DU420]

Hey bohdi, as long as its properly ventilated a 600w should work well. But why such massive pots? You'll end up growing 10ft monsters in 7 gallons I'd use 2 gallons max.... Just my 2c

 

[bodhi__]

Thanks Casio for reconfirming what I thought 600 is what it looks like I am going with. I may be able to work back to that 5x5 area soon and figure I can just use it in there along with another maybe once its all dialed in. I am not sure yet in my 5x5 setup I was planning on staggering them at all corners of the room and one in the center. How would that sound for future reference? I am unsure what to do with the three by three. What is the main difference between setting them in a row or staggering them?

On the pots, I read somewhere that you should have a gal of soil per foot of plant material. So a 6 ft plant would need a 6 gallon pot. I figure with the soil I will be using and the extra root beneficiaries that are in it 7 gal buckets would allow them enough room to spread out and soak up all the nutrients in the soil. I considered using 5 gals but wouldn't want to go much smaller than this? what do you say 2 gall max? just curious as to the reasoning behind your method. My goal is to veg for a month( 4 full weeks from seedling) which I am guessing is probably going to be around 16-18" or so at 18x6 lights on off. I figure with this veg cycle I should have some pretty decent ladies hopefully no bigger than 6ft. I want them to be of some substantial size in order to have a good yield. An lb would be magnificent.

 

[bodhi__]

one more thing, whats the dealk with smart pots? Also considered using these @ 5 gals for my ladies

 

[DU420]

Like I said mate its only my 2c, I think if you give them that much room they'll focus on growing roots instead of vegging. You don't need (IMO) massive pots to grow large plants, you can grow 2ft plants in a 16oz bottle so 3 gallons should be more than enough for a 6ft plant. Remember its a weed... Have you heard of uncle bens topping method for four main kolas? You might find it helpful.

http://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/151706-uncle-bens-topping-technique-get.html

And some other helpful threads...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=12653

http://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/6592-get-harvest-every-2-weeks.html

 

[bodhi__]

nice how long should you veg when topping? I see on uncle tom's it was outdoors so if I were to do this on an indoor grow would I need to lengthen my veg cycle?

 

[CasioCalculator]

Smartpots are porous fabric pots that allow greater airflow to your roots. Also, in a traditional pot when the root reaches the wall, it will begin to spiral down and around the pot where as the smartpot will "air prune" your roots. Basically when roots get exposed to too much air with low humidity (dry out) they will branch out and more effectively fill your potting medium. This link should explain it a bit better.

Now about the 6' plants you plan on growing. It is going to be a bit difficult to do that when your total height is 6.5'. Remember you have to take into account the container height, height of your air cooled light hood, and distance from said lamp to tops of pants to avoid burning. In regards to plant numbers, if you have a single light source, I wouldn't put one plant in the center with the others in the corners. You will have one plant that will grow like mad while the others lag behind. In a 3x3 space I would possibly have 2 plants side by side and make use of lst or scrog to make them fill that space up as much as possible. Alternatively you could do 4 smaller plants aligned in a square pattern which again you should lst or scrog to fill in the gaps. The 4 plant situation will allow you to use smaller pots and veg for less time but the smaller pots will lend to more frequent waterings. Don't be concerned with filling up all the height as if you were to have a 5ft plant, there will be relatively little photons reaching the bottom branches and you will have a bunch of bud that is not even worth trimming. And that is not even taking into account all the light that will be blocked by all the branches above.

What do you mean about how long should you veg if you are topping? Do you mean does it extend the amount of time you veg after you top? Or, are you asking how long do you veg before you top? You can top after you have a few solid sets of nodes usually people wait till at least 4 sets of true leaves but some do before and some wait longer. Your plants growth will be stunted for a few days but it really shouldn't increase your veg time significantly. One thing I noticed when I topped my plants, the internode length was so much greater after I topped. Where before they were stacked nearly right on top of each other, they were then a few inches apart. I am not sure if that is common or not but it took me by surprise.

ps. have you decided on any genetics yet?

 

[bodhi__]

OK so it looks like I will be investing in the smart pots. And yes about those mythical 6 footers. I did think of all of that but I was hi and failed to recognize the importance of posting a more realistically thought out number, my fault, won't happen again, well intentionally at least . So two plants in that kind of space eh okay interesting. I know that genetics and everything is a big part but what might possibly have a better yield the two or 4 smaller plant setup? I was going to sort of do a side by side run and LST one plant and scrog the other but It looks like I am going to have to choose either or. Depending on the strain I end up going with (we'll get to your PS in a sec). Another question in terms of the 2 or 4 plant setup; which pot size would be adequate for each? 3gal/5gal? somewhere around there and I am guessing veg time would drop approximately a week. So 3 weeks for the 4 smalls, If I went with 2 plants I think I would still veg for 4.

As for the topping my question was answered in your response. Just wanted to know if after topping your plant would the veg cycle need to be readjusted in order to take the plants recovery time into affect. Since it is only a few days it prolly isn't too big of a deal. So Topping, LST, or SCROG? ahh decisions decisions

I am kind of glad
Now about my strains I only want to order once so I believe I have narrowed it down to the following:
mos Cinderella 99 (leaning towards f1 over Bx1)
paradise fem whiteberry
fem seeds nevills haze
dpf5 The ultimate
ggg flight 813 for my hash plant like strain so to say
I am not sure which I am going to run first but the above will def be a part of the package maybe one more too be added but I am satisfied with this list

Considered :belladona from psf but havent heard much on it, others who are still debatable include fms pure ak, schnazzleberry(really want this one still), dpf5 purple #1, and NF5 Northern lights

 

[CasioCalculator]

Either pot size should work out alright. Someone else will have to chime in really as the only experience I have with soil are the veggies and herbs I grew this summer. Most were grown in 2gal buckets I scored from work and I was able to get a few 3'+ plants. People typically veg longer in bigger pots but thats because they want bigger plants not because the container is bigger. I wouldn't be firm in the veg time as really you will want to flip them when they are about 1/2 the size you want them to end up. This is totally strain dependent though so you really don't know what you're getting into until you just try it.

Scrogging and LST'ing are both different means to a similar end. Both take what a plant that grows like this much like a christmas tree and has much more mass on the bottom then the top and tries to flatten it out. Why would one want to do that? Well when it comes to artificial light (well all light really), it gets exponentially weaker as the distance increases from the source. Double the distance from the light and you get 1/4th the amount of photons reaching their destination (the leaves). So when you flatten out the plant either by scrogging or lst, you maximize your efficiency by keeping it in that perfect zone. LST's main purpose is to tie down the dominant branches. This redirects the auxin (growth hormone) to the lower branches which are now higher then the top branches due to you tying the bitches down. This allows for the plant to even out and not let any one branch dominate over the other and in turn, you will have several nice colas.
Scrogging reshapes the plant as well but this time instead of focusing on a few branches here and a few there, you allow the plant to spread out through a net. The plant is always going to want to grow up towards the light so once it grows a few inches, you tuck it under the net gradually filling it as much as you can. I would say scrogging is going to utilize the most of the efficiency zone (not too close to the bulb and not too far) but it is definitely more time consuming and like you have said before not all plants like to be manipulated. I suggest try a little LST and see first hand how it effects the plant and then go on to scrog another time. Again this is just my opinion. Both methods usually employ topping so they are not mutually exclusive. Look through a few threads and you will see why people do what they do. There is no right or wrong answer when it comes to growing cannabis as no two situations are alike.

Any one of those genetics choices are top notch. I really want to work with some C99 as well as some of ACE genetics landrace strains. No matter what, you are bound to find something that will tickle your fancy.