Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[Jbonez]

Excellent news It's a better day today

For all of us man...

oh, and I guess Obama won or something, lol..

 

[Bud buster]

Lots of big growers do this it is a lot of work another thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4914610&highlight=defoliation#post4914610

mmmm good mine are looking better EVERY day.......I have to do one more serious defoliation tomorrow. I was just down their it smells like Strawberries and Tangerines!

 

[GMax]

i posted this in my thread too, but i feel it appropriate to contribute it here also..this an example of defoliation in vert...removal of leaves after stretch...


before defoliation...notice the green


after defoliation...see the green disappear


2 days later...notice the green return


before defoliation, looking up


2 days after defoliation...actually looks leafier


hope this helps

 

[Jbonez]

Ok, now Gmax is here?

I digress, I may have been a little hasty in my ignorance... A test is in order, and Im starting bloom day 1 in a few days.. Up first, ChemD..

All of a sudden a lot of respected growers are seemingly popping up with defoliating.. In my absence of growing over the last year Im starting to wonder how I missed this.. goes to show just how little we know...

 

[Bud buster]

That's cool I was just looking at your thread and those pictures and thinking of throwing them here crazy.

 

[Jbonez]

BB, Ill be playing with this... In fact, this gives me something new to try... I have a more than optimal environment with tons of light and reflectivity..

If I have to eat my words, I swear on three hundred fucks Im gonna be pissed.... sall good, I love being "corrected"..

 

[Bud buster]

Ok, now Gmax is here?

I digress, I may have been a little hasty in my ignorance... A test is in order, and Im starting bloom day 1 in a few days.. Up first, ChemD..

All of a sudden a lot of respected growers are seemingly popping up with defoliating.. In my absence of growing over the last year Im starting to wonder how I missed this.. goes to show just how little we know...

Ignorance is bliss glad to see the light is finally shining through without leaves.(couldn't help myself)

You still have time like I said to fever strip a couple near bare strip a couple medium leave the rest alone give them a few days then flip. Than a month after flip strip the two near naked again strip the other two medium do a couple that were never done and leave the rest do it over a couple of days and nothing will slow down.

That's it ether it helps or not only one way to find out.

 

[GMax]

Ok, now Gmax is here?

I digress, I may have been a little hasty in my ignorance... A test is in order, and Im starting bloom day 1 in a few days.. Up first, ChemD..

All of a sudden a lot of respected growers are seemingly popping up with defoliating.. In my absence of growing over the last year Im starting to wonder how I missed this.. goes to show just how little we know...

BB, Ill be playing with this... In fact, this gives me something new to try... I have a more than optimal environment with tons of light and reflectivity..

If I have to eat my words, I swear on three hundred fucks Im gonna be pissed.... sall good, I love being "corrected"..

i was a non-believer also, until i tried it for myself ...

i started out small just pulling a few leaves at a time and always had great results...so i started taking more and more and had even better results...and every time i am kinda hesitant with the scissors, but afterwards i wish i would have cut more

i dont prepare them in veg because they only veg real quick and they are small...i just defoliate after stretch, and then again about two weeks from harvest

That's cool I was just looking at your thread and those pictures and thinking of throwing them here crazy.

haha thats crazy

 

[Bud buster]

I was actually going to make the post i had it copied when I saw you did it for me and much better.

 

[Elite Nugz]

Im still a non-believer. Im gonna try it out though. I have two trays of XXX OG going right now. Im gonna strip one table down, and leave the other alone. Then see which table yields more. I think the plant taking an energy loss, would actually slow it down and lower either yield or quality. Sure the leaves grow back fast... they grow back fast because the plants need them in order to survive and produce there fruit. Im a big non-believer, but Im gonna give it a shot to see for myself.

And how much of a difference is this technique suppose to make?? So if Im pulling 1.5 - 2 lbs per 1,000 watt light.... How much of a difference would I see by using this technique??

 

[Jbonez]

Ignorance is bliss glad to see the light is finally shining through without leaves.

You still have time like I said to fever strip a couple near bare strip a couple medium leave the rest alone give them a few days then flip. Than a month after flip strip the two near naked again strip the other two medium and leave the rest do it over a couple of days and nothing will slow down.

That's it ether it helps or not only one way to find out.

Ive taken quite a few leaves before, but I think we just stressed the shit out of them because they didnt seem to like it, was around week 5 and we gave them the first stripping, main stalk fan leaves, still tho it didnt hurt my yield, I suppose a little logic and understanding of the plant itself is needed, I should be able to use my judgment and reading the plants, Ima try this on my chemd, its going in before katsu and the rest, and I know what she will do from experience, if I can get a little more off her, my mind will be blown.. Follow my journal, I wont disappoint.. Im not above trial and error, in fact I have a particular reverence for failure..

going to bed a little wiser... Id be interested in what the others are thinking, I still need proof, but there is enough clout here telling me to try.... Which is really all yall boys have been asking, to try..

 

[Bud buster]

This guy has done some experiments that could help https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=174163&page=48

I have really enjoyed reading this thread. Most of my grows are SCROG and I have been using a similar technique for about 20 years or so. Like every serious grower I never stop eperimenting and trying new things.
In my experience the plant is stressed less by removing the entire fan leaf rater than trimming the leaves. I cut the leaves and its stem about 1/4" from its base ant treat the stub wth a pruning selant gel (avaliable at your local garden shop).
IMHO .... if you are growing indoors and not SCROGing, defoliating, and clearing out ALL the lower vegitation, you are wasting a lot of plant energy as well as nutes. In the early days I just removed the lower leaves and baby branches to get good ventilation beneath the screen to prevent mold and fungus growth. this in and of itself improved yeilds by about 10%.
In later grows I began to remove fan leaves that were shading bud sites (instead of tucking them under the screen). This gave me another 15% or so improvement in bud production and weight. Eventually my grow experiments evolved into removing all the fan leaves. This did not improve things much at all until I realized that my buds were showing a nitrogen and some trace element deficiencies. after boosting the N and the trace elements in my nutrient mix I found another 15% improvement in bud production and weight
A word of caution though....don't over do the extra N.....sats espicially will start trying to reveg if you do. Also flush really well before harvest. I flush the last 2 weeks in ph adjusted( w/citric acid) R/O water with 1 tbls mollasses and 1 tbls honey per gal. For the first 7 days I change out the water every day Then in absoloute darkness for the last 7 days with no water changes. Two days before harvest I remove all water from my resvoir turn the heat up to 95 and set the de-humidifier to 25% rh and let it run like that till I harvest.
This system works very well for me and the strains that I grow.
Every grow and grower is different. My best advise is to experiment and find what works best for you and the srains that you grow.
Happy Growing;
Da Beach Bum

 

[Bud buster]

Im still a non-believer. Im gonna try it out though. I have two trays of XXX OG going right now. Im gonna strip one table down, and leave the other alone. Then see which table yields more. I think the plant taking an energy loss, would actually slow it down and lower either yield or quality. Sure the leaves grow back fast... they grow back fast because the plants need them in order to survive and produce there fruit. Im a big non-believer, but Im gonna give it a shot to see for myself.

And how much of a difference is this technique suppose to make?? So if Im pulling 1.5 - 2 lbs per 1,000 watt light.... How much of a difference would I see by using this technique??

Well most who have done it gain in yield with little larf you have a great experiment going you'll have to keep us updated.


Here is another couple of post from earlier in the thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=174163&page=57

bs0
Defol continues to kick ass in my spot. Each progressive harvest has surpassed the previous, with the most recent result being ~21z from 600w hps. I take more and more leaves each time, and have recently begun simply doing my trimming about 1 week before harvest while the plant is still growing. The crops look ugly as sin, but goddamn you can't argue with popcorn being replaced with 1g-2g nugs.

superbolan
It seems like just about everyone who has tried it is getting results and the only people saying it doesn't work have not tried it. I am thankful i took the leap of faith and gave it a try.

 

[Bud buster]

Here are solid numbers from a solid grower from earlier in thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=3915825&highlight=lifeless#post3915825

Well, after reading the recent developments on this thread i'm going to put up a few pics as an illustration of what defoliation has done for me.

None of these are “side by sides” as I don't do unit grows.

I harvest a plant a week, perpetual style.

So I can show pics of plants that have been run the same exact way except for defoliation.

I grow small trees with good lighting so you can't call this a bonsai technique.

Pictures, whether they are of side by side plants or of consecutive plants or plants that were grown weeks apart, cannot show true weight. There is no one that can tell the actual weight of a plant by looking at it.

You can just provide relative size indicators and allow the viewer to make their own decisions. And all you can do is report weight.

You can use my 5 gallon buckets as relative indicators if you like. Or perhaps a yardstick in the foliage. Or maybe put several plants in front of a 36” wide door.

I think you all will agree that these things I have mentioned are acceptable relative indicators.

In addition to that I keep accurate weight records expressly so that I can track the differences my changes make.

So I can show you a few plants and tell you how much they weighed. And that's all I can really do as this is a pot site and it is still illegal in most places.

But this still meets the scientific criteria of qualifying as empirical data. This is defined as data that has been gained from measurement and/or observation. Either measurement or observation alone are acceptable for presentation.

I have measured and observed very carefully.

All you real scientists out there know that in the scientific world one party makes claims and puts up evidence and arguments and then other, interested parties who may want to prove or disprove something try parallel or similar experiments in an attempt to replicate results to satisfy themselves.

Why should the world of cannabis be any different?

If you want to prove or disprove this try it for yourselves. It is the only way to really know.

Meanwhile here are a few pics.

This first series has been put up on this thread before but seems to have been forgotten or purposefully ignored.

In this post you see the same plant. It was vegged 8 weeks without defoliation. Then flowered to the end of stretch without defoliation.

At that point I radically defoliated the plant by removing every fan leaf that had a stem. I left single stemless leaves growing out of bud sites. All re-leafing you see in the final series of photos occurred after defoliation.

So, two pics before DF'ing, two pics after, and four pics just before cutting and trimming.

The plant was dried to the point where large bud stems snap.

It weighed 18.38 oz's dry.

It was and still is the largest single plant i've ever grown.

This is a reprint of an earlier post showing some numbers;






k33ftr33z and lifeless, thanks for the compliments on the monster!

i just weighed last weeks plant and it only went 15.80. i guess i screwed up somewhere.

so my last five consecutive defoliated plants went 11.96, 12.35, 14.74, 18.38, and 15.80 for a total of 73.23 or an average of 14.65 each.

my last 5 plants before defoliation averaged 10.49, or 52.45 total oz's.

a total difference of 20.78 or 4.16 zips per plant.

i have been doing a series of changes over the last year to drive up yield and this one, defoliating, has made the largest difference.

at this point i'll stop posting pics and weight here as i think i have proven this technique.

thanks k33ftr33z!
__________________
Passive Plant Killer

these figures are accurate!

Since the 8th of august I have not had a plant under 14 oz's. Some were over 16 oz's. I would say i'm averaging around 15.5 oz's per plant now with defoliating.

Sincerely, delta9nxs

 

[Bud buster]

These pictures are from early in the thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread....174163&page=41

Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeLess
found a picture of my last grow at day 34. Strains,Light,soil,ferts are all the same as the current grow. You can see a huge diff in bud development. Im not sure but after looking at the Apollolicious i think it could be close to finished at day 38. Its close for sure.

Last grow day 34
View Image

current grow day 36
View Image

This is the follow up thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=174163&page=58

I just finished a defoliated run and can say that not only did i get better penatration to the lower buds but the upper2/3 of the plant had much larger buds also. Its really dosent matter what size light your using this tech works period. I can post my pics again if anyone dosent wanna go back in the thread and look. I dont normally weigh out my harvest but i do fill jars. From this defoliated run i harvested 20% more bud. Peace LL

 

[Bud buster]

Ok last one https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=174163&page=59

Thnx Greyskull atleast you noticed. Lets forget about the bottom buds for a second. ALL The Buds benefit from defoliating. I know this works and will always defoliate. Theres always gonna be poeple that wanna argue diff points because its what they like to do (argue). But those of us that have tried this know whats up. Here we go again HaHa. I love these pics.

Day 16 before
http://../../ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=795174View Image

Day 16 after
http://../../ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=795309View Image

Day 20
http://../../ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=795456View Image

Day 24 Before 2nd def
http://../../ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=795591View Image

Day 24 after
http://../../ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=795592View Image

Day 28
http://../../ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=795763View Image

Day 32
http://../../ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=795881View Image
http://../../ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=795879View Image

Day 36
http://../../ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=796109View Image

Day 40
http://../../ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=796286View Image

Day 45 Chopped day 47
http://../../ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=796420View Image
http://../../ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=796421View Image

This was my 1st attempt at defoliating and things went way better than expected. I didnt take any leaf in veg. I started defoliating at day 16 bloom and did a 2nd leaf trim at day 24. Putting the lower buds aside. The upper 2/3s of the plant did way better. The light being able to penatrate to the bottom was good but the light intensity to the upper was even better. Buds were so dense they were like rocks.
Ft100 are you seeing anything like that?
Greyskull you?
Peace LL

 

[vspin]

In addition to creating more budsites, this technique seems to compromise leaves to obtain optimal, uniform luminosity found in its natural environment. Since artificial lights cannot compete with the sun, maybe this compromise is just what's needed indoors. There seems to be a misconception that this technique completely opposes leaves, when in fact leaves are only removed when they become too dense for effective light distribution. Nevertheless, some leaves will remain during the flowering stage.

 

[Iffy-Caradoc]

Im still a non-believer. Im gonna try it out though. I have two trays of XXX OG going right now. Im gonna strip one table down, and leave the other alone. Then see which table yields more. I think the plant taking an energy loss, would actually slow it down and lower either yield or quality. Sure the leaves grow back fast... they grow back fast because the plants need them in order to survive and produce there fruit. Im a big non-believer, but Im gonna give it a shot to see for myself.

And how much of a difference is this technique suppose to make?? So if Im pulling 1.5 - 2 lbs per 1,000 watt light.... How much of a difference would I see by using this technique??

Hard to say Elite Nugz, that's why we need these trials.
IMHO the plants need to be trained to accept the pruning, so that they don't slow down. Start taking the odd leaf early in the veg stage & they don't freak out when you start pruning them properly.
Look forward to sharing your results mate.
Stay Safe

 

[Jbonez]

Ok, so trials started this morning..

This chemD is going into bloom in a few days after a transplant.. Ill take a few more leaves so as not to shock the thing in a few days, gradually working into the stretch and taking them a few at a time, stay tuned....

 

[DrFever]

hahahaha jbonez this is going to be awesome a actual test do you have same size un hacked plant that will be going into flower as well maybe post them together if you can