Do we really want to be happy? Or...

[southflorida]

I am just trying to survive.....I have so many fleeting emotions, happiness is one of them, but so is sadness.....so I take what I can get, and keep it moving.

we all do the best we can

BTW...I'm not trying to convert anyone...just sharing my many years of experience of contemplating the true nature of not only happiness...but reality in general

and, we are all (or to be more exact, a part we call the "self" is always trying to survive

but, as Human BEINGS, there is another side to us, one that does not depend on surviving, but simply IS-ess along

I guess you can say it's invisible or unknown to the "self" and that is why our attention does not notice it

but it is as or even more REAL than the self...it is infinite and simultaneously nothing

 

[headband 707]

Awww but to strive for ones true perfection is to live in the moment no past, no future only now because you can only truly " be" in the present.. headband 707

 

[southflorida]

Awww but to strive for ones true perfection is to live in the moment no past, no future only now because you can only truly " be" in the present.. headband 707

True. And our awareness does exist only in the present.

The whole problem arises because we have confused ourselves with the self-mind. This is what we consider to be our "self" or what we "are."

The confusion starts when we are kids, and our culture programs us with its beliefs and assumptions.

The two assumptions that create the whole mess and cause us non-stop suffering are:

1) that we are a "self"

2) that knowledge is good, not knowing is bad

while the truth is:

1) we simply ARE

2) we don't know who or what we are, and we don't know what life is.

We have a bunch of, in fact a whole shit-load of beliefs and assumptions that we take for FACTS, and because of these false-conceptions we suffer the consequences.

When we start to believe that we are, something that we are not: SHIT HAPPENS!

 

[southflorida]

Now, I hope I don't sound like I'm trying to be a GURU of some kind that is always happy, and that looks down on the unenlightened folks that are all suffering as false-selves and are never truly happy.

Because this is not how it IS.

I am just like any other human being, caught in the wheel, running my ass off trying to survive, chasing the cheese, as if it exists and believing that one day when I get it - then it's all over - BLISS 24/7.....LOL

The only difference between me and some other people is that I have been interested in the true nature of reality and the human condition for over 28 years, since I was 14, which makes me currently 42. And obviously when you have been making distinctions in this domain, you start to be aware of stuff others are not aware off, unless they also study this stuff on a regular basis.

Another difference is that I make a distinction between my false-egoic-conceptual-self, and my true-self, or BEING.

I am aware that the self-mind is operating in my moment-to-moment experience, wanting all kinds of shit in the future and pissed off at a bunch of bull-shit in the past, and that I am a mouse that is running toward stuff that I believe will bring me pleasure and running away from the stuff that I believe might bring me pain/suffering.

These two dynamics are what keep us spinning inside the wheel 24/7/365 until death does us apart...lol

But, I am also aware that at the fundamental level, the authentic-me is an unknown entity that exists behind the scenes.

This does not mean that our false-self is NOT Being/Consciousness, it IS. Consciousness is aware AS all the distinctions inside itself, and our false-self is simply a distinction inside Consciousness. This makes it an element of Consciousness.

The awareness that is aware of what is occuring on a moment-to-moment basis, The Consciousness that is creating all the distinctions in our experience, the Infinitely Nothingness that has always been, is now, and always will be --- IS the real me, you, and everything else that exists inside of this UNKNOWN ENTITY I'm calling Being.

Being can't be described in words, it can only be directly experienced, and we are experiencing it now.

The problem from the perspective of the false-self is that Being is INFINITELY-NOTHING.

There is NOTHING there to perceive, because Being exists BEFORE perception.

Since perception is a secondary process, the primary reality that IS there --- cannot be perceived by our senses.

This is a scientific fact...btw...in case anyone wonders if this is even possible. Our organs of perception do not perceive reality, for example our eyes see the light that bounces of whatever IS there, and our self-mind interprets and gives meaning to this incoming phenomena. This is the same with smell, hearing, touching, feeling, etc. They are all secondary processes where our self-mind interprets reality and gives us a meaning based on our beliefs and assumptions.

We don't know what is really there. EVER. All we see is the recorded concepts inside our self-mind.

Interesting...huh?

You might laugh at this, but from my direct experience, there is NOTHING there. The true nature of reality is NOTHING. This is why we actually miss it when we are perceiving everything and relating it to ourselves through perception.

Reality (Being/Consciousness) is also INFINITY.

These are two exact things. They both (nothing and infinity) have no beginning and no end, and so they are nowhere and everywhere simultaneously.

This is NOT something to be believed, because it is UNBELIEVABLE.

Before there is anything, there is always NOTHING first.

Just like before there is knowing there is not-knowing.

We are used to paying attention to something, but forget that in order for something to exist there must first BE "NOTHING" where this something shows up.

Since NOTHING is the authentic and original state, it is the true SELF.

That might sound outrageous and absurd.

But the truth doesn't have to fit in with our beliefs and assumptions.

It only has to be TRUE!

 

[southflorida]

if anyone has read the first three poasts and want more, then i can't help.

we're nothing and that means nothing

we're each doing what we can at the present moment

the only difference is are we doing it profitably or not

 

[paulo73]

Happiness is a warm gun and no firearms or dicks are involved in it.
Someone wrote before me that Happiness is overrated and i totally agree.
Happiness seems to me like the Magic Cauldron at the end of the Rainbow that prevents a few from noticing how beautiful the Rainbow is.

 

[southflorida]

Happiness is a warm gun and no firearms or dicks are involved in it.
Someone wrote before me that Happiness is overrated and i totally agree.
Happiness seems to me like the Magic Cauldron at the end of the Rainbow that prevents a few from noticing how beautiful the Rainbow is.

paulo...we need to make a distinction between what we THINK happiness is...and REAL happiness.

I tried to do that with my posts in the beginning of this thread.

Most likely I didn't accomplish what I wanted since most of this stuff that I write about is very "elusive" and it is not easy to describe my insights using words.

The insights I had are one thing, and the words I use to describe them are another.

While the insight might have been what it IS...the words are simply representations...and so only "point" toward what is.

Are you getting what I'm trying to communicate?

 

[Clive]

Excellent excellent posts southflorida iv thoroughly enjoyed reading all this. Do you believe in the law of attraction southflorida ? What you think will be what you get. It's just in reading about the laws of attraction they talk about gratitude allot and being thankful which I think is what your talking about I'm gonna have another read though lol. Cheers.

 

[Max Yields]

One has to be simply because it is what we are, human beings.

 

[southflorida]

Excellent excellent posts southflorida iv thoroughly enjoyed reading all this. Do you believe in the law of attraction southflorida ? What you think will be what you get. It's just in reading about the laws of attraction they talk about gratitude allot and being thankful which I think is what your talking about I'm gonna have another read though lol. Cheers.

thanks.

i have read about LOA.

In my own experiences in life it has worked.

But, as a strategy or a tactic, I think it doesn't deliver the emotional side that folks want at the fundamental level.

We do everything because we want EMOTIONAL charges.

What's really out-of-sync with our beliefs and assumptions is that we believe and assume that we ONLY want positive emotions.

While in reality we want and need BOTH positive and negative emotions to navigate through life.

Because at the root bottom, what I like to call rock-bottom honesty, we can observe that PAIN and DESIRE play major roles in keeping us on the wheel chasing the invisible cheese.

the invisible cheese is our desires and pain is what is created when we see that we DON'T currently have what we want.

the problem with this structure is we ARE NEVER happy with what we get.

as soon as we get it (whatever IT is) we start paying attention to protecting this IT, or find a new IT to run after.

we just keep going and going...like that rabbit in the duracell commercial...lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaF6FxmixJk

 

[Obsidian]

sounds like the OP has some serious issues.

don't project your fucked up negative emotions onto others

sad to be you

 

[StoneByName]

Well, I didn't read everything here but these are my (slightly rambling) thoughts:

Externally, if we look at ourselves in isolation:

We are the masters of adaptation. Excluding a base level of wealth for survival, our financial situation is something we adapt to. Our level of happiness will rise with more material wealth until we adapt and return to our base level of happiness. This seems to be the pattern with lottery winners and I notice this within myself.

If we look at the world (competitive capitalist societies) around us:

Relative deprivation is something I believe is a contributor to unhappiness. If everyone around you has something that you feel you cannot obtain it damages your ego and makes you feel inferior. This is assuming that you do not try and rationalise it ('but I don't want x') or judge yourself on your own criteria.

Internally:

If we try and lose our ego and judge ourselves by our own standards we can be content. The standards we set will not be contradicted if we are sure of our beliefs and determined to work towards them.

I don't believe we can be happy all the time. Sadness should be there as a motivator to improve, to change. Fear is there to save us from our arrogance and feelings of invincibility. I think we can become generally content, we can't sprint forever.

If we were constantly happy wouldn't that make us delusional robots? Unaware of external circumstance? Satisfied with anything?

 

[southflorida]

One has to be because it is what we are, human beings.

isn't it interesting that we don't pay attention to this.

human beings are confused with being a human "self"

the being part has been sort of swept under the rug...it seems

in reality it is always there...but since there is NOTHING there...our attention is focused on what we can perceive...false-egoic-concepts...that the false-self is attached to...

...like those monkeys that get their hand stuck in a bottle and are caught because they can't make the connection with letting go off the fruit with their freedom

so they hold on to the fruit and get caught by the ppl that are into catching wild animals (whatever they're called).

...this is how we ARE.

we are attached to our false beliefs and assumptions and are not aware that if we let them go...we will be free

the primary false belief and assumption is that we ARE a "self"

 

[southflorida]

sounds like the OP has some serious issues.

don't project your fucked up negative emotions onto others

sad to be you

is this a joke?

 

[southflorida]

Well, I didn't read everything here but these are my (slightly rambling) thoughts:

you should...I did work hard on those first three posts

Externally, if we look at ourselves in isolation:

We are the masters of adaptation. Excluding a base level of wealth for survival, our financial situation is something we adapt to. Our level of happiness will rise with more material wealth until we adapt and return to our base level of happiness. This seems to be the pattern with lottery winners and I notice this within myself.

...the whole problem is there is no such thing as an authentic "self."

...it has been invented with the help from society.

If we look at the world (competitive capitalist societies) around us:

Relative deprivation is something I believe is a contributor to unhappiness. If everyone around you has something that you feel you cannot obtain it damages your ego and makes you feel inferior. This is assuming that you do not try and rationalise it ('but I don't want x') or judge yourself on your own criteria.

true...but as you can see this is all in relation to a self...and what if there is no such thing in reality....that it is simply a confusion...of sorts?

Internally:

If we try and lose our ego and judge ourselves by our own standards we can be content. The standards we set will not be contradicted if we are sure of our beliefs and determined to work towards them.

this whole self and belief thing is what really gets us in the mess to start with.

the self (ego) is an assumption, a false one at that...and it is the root of all suffering

no self = no suffering

I don't believe we can be happy all the time. Sadness should be there as a motivator to improve, to change. Fear is there to save us from our arrogance and feelings of invincibility. I think we can become generally content, we can't sprint forever.

happiness, as I described in the OP...is a state of being happy in the moment regardless of what happens...it is an inherent part of our BEING.

Sadly, this part is IGNORED in our society and we are exclusively focused on the SELF-SELF-SELF.

Everything in relation to this SELF, and it doesn't really even exist....except of course in our self-minds as concepts.

If we were constantly happy wouldn't that make us delusional robots? Unaware of external circumstance? Satisfied with anything?

No. Robots is what we are when we are hypnotized by the self-minds interpretations of what we perceive.

As a false-self we interpret all circumstances in relation to this self, and guess who is doing the interpreting?

Yes. The self.

And in this state, we are NEVER satisfied with anything for long, because we are running on the wheel chasing the invisible cheese (desires, goals, etc.)

And since we never get the cheese, and are never satisfied with what we have in the present moment (at least not for long) we are living completely inside our self-mind.

We never perceive reality directly, all we see is our minds concepts (beliefs, assumptions, convictions, opinions, etc.)

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=247797

In this thread I go into detail why we never perceive what IS there in reality, and why we have no way of perceiving it.

All our organs of perceptions have been designed only for survival, which now a days mostly is in the social domain.

The physical domain is also important, but not as much as the SOCIAL SURVIVAL part of our experience!

 

[Clive]

sounds like the OP has some serious issues.

don't project your fucked up negative emotions onto others

sad to be you

God theirs some ****s on cannabis forums lol a guy can't even give an opinion without some prick trying to ruin him.

 

[paulo73]

I think i get you.

I think i get you.

But again i´m stuck with words to express in which ways i get it or not

Happiness is not a physical object, like a chair or a bud, so i find it very hard to make any kind of distinction between what IS happiness and what we think it IS.

I must say that your "pointers" or "word signs" even if elusive they show a good insight but the question remains do you have a happy "outsight"?

paulo...we need to make a distinction between what we THINK happiness is...and REAL happiness.

I tried to do that with my posts in the beginning of this thread.

Most likely I didn't accomplish what I wanted since most of this stuff that I write about is very "elusive" and it is not easy to describe my insights using words.

The insights I had are one thing, and the words I use to describe them are another.

While the insight might have been what it IS...the words are simply representations...and so only "point" toward what is.

Are you getting what I'm trying to communicate?

 

[southflorida]

But again i´m stuck with words to express in which ways i get it or not

Happiness is not a physical object, like a chair or a bud, so i find it very hard to make any kind of distinction between what IS happiness and what we think it IS.

I must say that your "pointers" or "word signs" even if elusive they show a good insight but the question remains do you have a happy "outsight"?

lol...what I mean by true happiness can't really be described with words.

It is something that we experience when we simply ARE in the moment, and not in our memories of the past or projections into the future.

Being is happy. It is an inherent part.

The only part of us that is NOT happy is the self-mind.

But, this is not a problem really.

Why? Because the self-mind was not designed to be happy.

It was designed to be a survival tool. Since it is NOT us, we simply remain aware that we are BEING and not a self.

So we make a distinction, and can be happy REGARDLESS what we experience. Even if it the most horrible experience, we can still BE happy with what IS.

After all we are this IS - aren't we?

 

[paulo73]

Now you hit the nail in the head!!!

BEING IS HAPPY!

If you knew it all along why making people suffer?!?!?
Just kidding of course.

Being is happy. I totally stand by this one!

 

[Pinball Wizard]

all the poker players say: "if you think long, you think wrong"