Living organic soil from start through recycling

[YosemiteSam]

The alfalfa seed thing never occurred to me...that sounds genius.

What I was really asking can I chuck the enzyme water in with say an alfalfa/kelp tea or should I do it separately?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

The alfalfa seed thing never occurred to me...that sounds genius.

What I was really asking can I chuck the enzyme water in with say an alfalfa/kelp tea or should I do it separately?

Because of the differences in the time required to achieve some level of growth, I found that sprouting them separately gave me higher germination rates. Then I would mix them together.

This was particularly true of the alfalfa seeds given their small size - I believe.

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Yosemite Sam

These are the specific enzymes expressed in the grass seeds (vs. legume) - amylase, arylsulphatase, β-glucosidase, cellulase, chitinase, dehydrogenase, phosphatase, protease, and urease

 

[YosemiteSam]

Obviously it is time for me to read the book. I will order it today, even at the crazy price it sounds highly worth it.

So you are using strictly enzyme teas now? No sun type teas?

Have you created a situation where your plants can access N from the air to some degree?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Yosemite Sam

I only apply plant-based teas these days. I'm pretty much a lazy fuck in the whole scheme of things.

CC

 

[YosemiteSam]

Hardly lazy on the research. You helped make my outdoor better than my competitors indoor. You are the man in my book.

 

[Microbeman]

Gascan;

ACT can be a fertilizer in the sense of what that word defines. If there is a population of bacteria/archaea along with flagellates (and/or naked amoebae) then there are nutrients immediately available to the roots of plants. If one uses this on a consistent basis then it can be 'almost' a stand alone source of nutrient. I'm not saying this is ideal, just that it does have that capacity.

We did use ACT for an extended period almost every watering with great benefit. We also did have a good amount of organic matter in the soil and did supplement with fish hydrolysate and vermicompost topdress.

It is true that ACT helps establish microbial populations but it also acts to cycle nutrients immediately if comprised of the correct microorganisms. I believe that CT also carries organic matter with it. I had some lab tested once and it was 75% OM. [at least that's what the printout said]

This season we planted crimson clover, mowed it down, mostly killing it, planted red corn and squash plants (end of June!) and used only ACT throughout the season. We harvested corn and squash. This is pretty good, since corn is such a nutrient hog.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

This is pretty good, since corn is such a nutrient hog

No kidding!!! Friggin' amazing!

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Yosemite Sam

Here's something to ponder: we add Crab meal for it's Calcium Carbonate (96%) and for the Chitin. Bacteria produce Chitinase (hydrolytic enzyme) and THAT is the pesticide benefit.

With sprouted seeds (the grasses anyway) this enzyme is created and released negating microbial action as with the Crab meal - double benefit.

Something like that......

CC

 

[shmalphy]

CC, I have been making the barley tea, and results are impressive, but I am unclear on a few points, I know you said it isn't scientific, so this is just curiosity

a) At what point in the growth cycle is it most effective? Should it be applied once, or frequently throughout? I have a perpetual cycle with plants at all stages at all times, so I can either make enough for everyone once a week if it will benefit at that rate, or be conservative and only make a small amount and give it once at the flip, for instance, if that is all that is needed. Any thoughts?

b) My initial understanding was that the seeds did not need to sprout much to create the enzyme, based on what I know of malt from beer making. I thought you just had to get a short white root from each seed, then soak, which is what I have been doing. I was under the impression that smaller was better. I tried letting them grow more this time, like you said to fill the jar they are in half way. with some green sprouts forming.

So, the question I have is do we know for sure if bigger sprouts = more enzyme or could it mean that more of it has been used to make the sprouts bigger?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

shmalphy

I'll get back to you on Question B as I need to get the creation and release times on a couple of enzymes - chitinase & phosphatase specifically.

I have a question for you on malted barley powders - if I were to use the text string 'Crystal Malted Barley #300' would that mean anything to you?

CC

 

[MrSterling]

I was packing some books up, came across an old book I'd forgotten about, "The Propagation of Plants: Giving the principles which govern the development and growth of plants, their botanical affinities, and peculiar properties" by Andrew Fuller. My copy is from 1918 but the original publication was 1887.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

a) At what point in the growth cycle is it most effective? Should it be applied once, or frequently throughout? I have a perpetual cycle with plants at all stages at all times, so I can either make enough for everyone once a week if it will benefit at that rate, or be conservative and only make a small amount and give it once at the flip, for instance, if that is all that is needed. Any thoughts?

shmalphy

I root cuttings directly in soil in #7 or #10 SmartPots and as soon as I see legitimate new growth I begin applying alfalfa for the reasons I mentioned earlier - PGR, auxins, et al.

Once the plant is firmly established then I do like I mentioned - whatever is handy.

I should have mentioned that I also add aloe vera extract @ 1/4 cup per gallon. Aloe vera contains 3 root development compounds, i.e. Salicylic acid, indole-3-Acetic Acid (IAA) and indole-3-butyric acid (IBA) and 20 specific enzymes.

HTH

CC

 

[IncredibowlBoss]

The sprouted seed teas produced the heaviest resin levels on the TO that I've ever achieved in 29 years. The 'high' is the strongest I've ever pulled from this cross.

Ever......

Wait until it's finished curing - about another 3 weeks.

Beyond convinced - any suggestions on scaling it down for 5 gal at a time?

 

[DARC MIND]

super silver haze f3

super silver haze f3

 

[ClackamasCootz]

IB

When I've sprouted and soaked them, I use 1 cup of 'tea' with 15 cups of water = 1 gallon.

So 5 gallons would require 5 cups of tea so you would only need to use 2 tablespoons of seeds (1 oz.) and then add 5 cups of water to the sprouts for the 48 hour soak.

Check my figures - I'm over-medicated this morning! LOL

CC

 

[bajangreen]

Anyone ever use cod liver oil as an amendment?

 

[xmobotx]

wonder if the barley sprout technique could be dual applied to making mash? essentially, the discards from the mash sprouting process would go to the garden

 

[Gascanastan]

Gascan;

ACT can be a fertilizer in the sense of what that word defines. If there is a population of bacteria/archaea along with flagellates (and/or naked amoebae) then there are nutrients immediately available to the roots of plants. If one uses this on a consistent basis then it can be 'almost' a stand alone source of nutrient. I'm not saying this is ideal, just that it does have that capacity.

We did use ACT for an extended period almost every watering with great benefit. We also did have a good amount of organic matter in the soil and did supplement with fish hydrolysate and vermicompost topdress.

It is true that ACT helps establish microbial populations but it also acts to cycle nutrients immediately if comprised of the correct microorganisms. I believe that CT also carries organic matter with it. I had some lab tested once and it was 75% OM. [at least that's what the printout said]

This season we planted crimson clover, mowed it down, mostly killing it, planted red corn and squash plants (end of June!) and used only ACT throughout the season. We harvested corn and squash. This is pretty good, since corn is such a nutrient hog.

I knew you'd come along and school me...I remember you talking about this in the past..'almost' is good. So it would make a good supplemental considering that.

I know we've touched on this topic before,but so little gets discussed about the quantity of food and the exhaustion of nutrients in conjunction with ACT...what's your take on this when using ACT's on a frequent basis if a grower has an excess of....or lack of adequate food in the soil...???

 

[shmalphy]

I actually used the immersion blender on the barley tea last time, figured it couldn't hurt


re: Crystal Malt- not sure about the #300 but I used Crystal Malt in my Hophead IPA:


SG 1058-1062
FG 1010- 1012

7 lbs Light Dried Malt Extract
1/2 lb CaraFoam Malt
1 lb Munich Malt
1/4 lb Crystal Malt
2 oz Nugget Hop Pellets
1 oz Cascade Hop Plugs
1 pkg Burton Water Salts
1 tsp Irish Moss
3/4 cup Priming Sugar
American Ale Yeast



Also, Thanks for the insight into your application rates of the enzyme teas. I have used quinoa too, like you said what ever is around, but this has me very interested in eating sprouts myself, so I might have an array of them around, which will allow me to experiment. I harvest 2 plants a week so it makes for easy side by sides...

re cloning: Recently, I tried taking a tip from an aloe leaf and dunking cuttings in the gel. They seem to love it.. I am trying it side by side with saliva (yes.. spit.. I put it in my mouth for a few seconds, I think it has to do with the salivary amylase or something), I read that it works, and although there are no visible roots coming out the drainage holes yet, the plants in both groups are "praying" and look healthy as can be with no dome, in EWC in 3 oz solo cups, under ambient light...