Its more than 24inches more like 26... I have rocked 1K's as close as 6in without any sort of problem. Drip clean is only in the 6/9 reservoir so I know thats not the culprit. I will check the tubing for sure tommorow AM.
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- Thread starter Tyga
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Its more than 24inches more like 26... I have rocked 1K's as close as 6in without any sort of problem. Drip clean is only in the 6/9 reservoir so I know thats not the culprit. I will check the tubing for sure tommorow AM.
Gardens Keeper
Member
Ok, we can knock drip clean off the list of problems. I am leaning more toward a K lock out/def now as others mentioned previously, it is just so defined in some areas, really weird. First picture I thought K def/lockout, but the following kind of throw me off. Definitely fill us in on the water situation as well.
shouldn't be a lockout if pH is right, which he always says is fine. 6/9 is a good, healthy ratio, even when you don't have runoff. I've never used roots organic coco. Maybe that could be an issue if not the tubing. Also check your air pump if you use one and see if any weird smell is coming from it
Might want to even inspect the roots closely for any signs of insects
Might want to even inspect the roots closely for any signs of insects
Gardens Keeper
Member
K can be locked out from excess ammonium (NH4+), Ca (calcium), or Na (sodium) levels raise too high, K (potassium) will be locked out. Also if the temperature drops below 50 degrees fahrenheit, K can be locked out and it shows itself as the “purpling” of the bud tips and possibly leaves.
Even if pH is stable if he is using tap water excess Ca could be causing the lock out.
Even if pH is stable if he is using tap water excess Ca could be causing the lock out.
Hope noone thinks I'm trying to shoot down anyones ideas with my responses! Just really can't figure this out... Water is tap.... 150ppm.
Heres a few more shots from my last round that I ended up scrapping 2nd week into flower....
@Watts- I'm running Roots Organic coco w/ a vert 1K in a tent next to this. (They are on a flip-flop) And they are kicking ass and getting the same exact feed. Pretty much identical setup except the light is horizontal in this tent and not vert.
Heres a few more shots from my last round that I ended up scrapping 2nd week into flower....
@Watts- I'm running Roots Organic coco w/ a vert 1K in a tent next to this. (They are on a flip-flop) And they are kicking ass and getting the same exact feed. Pretty much identical setup except the light is horizontal in this tent and not vert.
THIS! My pics are early stages of this..... This is when it gets bad. How the fuck did you even finish flowering your girls out? Once my girls hit this point they were at a stand still for 2 solid weeks until I decided to give them the axe...
Gardens Keeper
Member
Since we have narrowed things down significantly and the addition of more pictures it couldn't look to me more spot on for off-gassing from NGW tubing. Looks EXACTLY like my experience when I had it. Look up the thread, "Warning new off gassing product!!!!". I remember they had pictures. Given you have two different setups with different nutrient regiments and the same thing happening and your lights are not close enough to burn my verdict is off gassing. I highly look forward to your inspection of the tubing.
Are your light bulbs. Extremely old. I had something similar looking happen to my leaves and it turned out my bulbs were extremely old. This was a few years ago, so my memory of the way the leaves resemble yours could be off. I know it's a slim chance and prob not that, but just thought I would mention it. Hope you find out what the problem is, it's very frustrating I know from experience. Best of luck to you!
TGT
TGT
Unfortunatley the tubing had no markings on it. Run off was about 120ppm so dosen't seem to be any sort of salt buildup. I guess the tubing could still be off-gassing even though it dosent have any of those markings?
Gardens Keeper
Member
Yeah, it sure could, there are lots of plastics unfortunately that can do that. Man I wish we had a 100% confirmation, but with the way you describe plants just doing a nose dive to the graveyard and considering everything else discussed it really sounds like off gassing. Order the tubing made for blumats if you can or replace the tubing with anything other than what you have and where you got it. If there anyway you can find out the manufacturer? Maybe try calling the store you went to? I would spend more time trying find absolutely anything that is capable of replacing it first though. Try ordering tubing from the same place others ordered from in the big blumat thread. It would be really shady and low of the manufacturer of the old NGW tubing to simply take the name off and keep selling it...Hope that is not the case.
I had two instances of off-gassing.
1. The NGW labeled tubing.
2. I made a trellis with wire I bought from lowes/homedepot that was copper but coated in a clear plastic that absolutely wrecked a whole grow. Plants looked like yours and I kept them going just do it and at the end they were all crispy dead plants that hermed like crazy and pollinated everything.
If the plastic you have pliable and high gloss looking (very shiny)? Not sure if there is a correlation between the glossy look or not but the plastics I had cause the problem were very shiny. It was not like the dull very flexible tubing you would buy at most pet stores.
I had two instances of off-gassing.
1. The NGW labeled tubing.
2. I made a trellis with wire I bought from lowes/homedepot that was copper but coated in a clear plastic that absolutely wrecked a whole grow. Plants looked like yours and I kept them going just do it and at the end they were all crispy dead plants that hermed like crazy and pollinated everything.
If the plastic you have pliable and high gloss looking (very shiny)? Not sure if there is a correlation between the glossy look or not but the plastics I had cause the problem were very shiny. It was not like the dull very flexible tubing you would buy at most pet stores.
P
Puscifer
Tyga, I know in your first post you said your humidity is 48-58 but are you sure? I ask because I may have traced my problem to too low humidity.
My dehumidifier was stuck on 45% and ran constantly so I know my humidity was actually lower than the set 45.
No off gassing issues for me cause I've been running the same exact setup for 3+ years. Wasn't until the control panel on my dehuey burned out and was stuck on 45 that my problems started.
My dehumidifier was stuck on 45% and ran constantly so I know my humidity was actually lower than the set 45.
No off gassing issues for me cause I've been running the same exact setup for 3+ years. Wasn't until the control panel on my dehuey burned out and was stuck on 45 that my problems started.
Kush Technician
Member
what gas is this that is off-gassing? I guess I have to check out that thread. Seems unlikely. I mean, if this gas doesn't want to stay in the plastic of the tubing, why would it stay in the water? And if it doesn't stay in the water, goes in to the air, does not the healthy exchange of air in grow space defeat these off gasses?
Kush Technician
Member
And no way is an old bulb causing anything other than reduced rate of photosynthesis. Maybe u got root aphids. Seems these things are everywhere.
Kush Technician
Member
sorry for 3 posts in a row, but edit post button is not available for some reason.
Unexplainable def and the pics tell me you are a prime candidate for root aphids. Pretty much worthless to flower out plants with RA. I have jars of stuff right now that I only HOPE i can salvage by running thru tubes.
Unexplainable def and the pics tell me you are a prime candidate for root aphids. Pretty much worthless to flower out plants with RA. I have jars of stuff right now that I only HOPE i can salvage by running thru tubes.
Gardens Keeper
Member
Go do a search for the off gassing article I cited in an earlier post in this thread and also go look at the gigantic sticky at the top of this forum that only talks about tents many used that killed entire crops again and again. There is plenty of knowledge already compiled on off-gassing and it was a serious situation back when many tent manufacturers were using this plastic as well as people who make hydro tubing especially sold from hydro stores....Now look at what this did to all these peoples plants and consider what it does to other things...
S
SeaMaiden
And then there's BPA that 'offgasses' into our water bottles, plastic-lined food cans, yadda yadda yadda.
I've been watching and reading and reading and I cannot find a definitive answer that's tied only to nutrients. I do not believe this is tied solely to VPD, either, though it may play a role.
RAs or other pest may be a possibility here, certainly worth eliminating it as a possibility.
I've been watching and reading and reading and I cannot find a definitive answer that's tied only to nutrients. I do not believe this is tied solely to VPD, either, though it may play a role.
RAs or other pest may be a possibility here, certainly worth eliminating it as a possibility.
Whats the best way to look for root aphids? Wouldnt this affect the growth throughout the whole cycle? This stuff starts occuring right when they are put in the flower tent and hooked up to the blumats. Thats the only conditions that change... The light, the tent, and the method of feeding (blumats instead of handwater). And I can pretty much narrow out the light since it is over 2 ft from the canopy and the tent was replaced using B/W poly so thats not causing any sort of off-gassing.
Im thinking either A.Root aphids B. Blumat tubing.... And im sort of leaning away from RA because wouldnt those effect the plants there whole life?
S
SeaMaiden
Flyers that look like fungus gnats would be your tip that the population has exploded. You've got to check the root zone. RAs will not affect the entire life cycle of the plant if they have not been present the entire life cycle of the plant. Yellow sticky traps to catch flyers if they're present, and pulling the worst plants out of the pot, check out roots.
If you see little aphid-looking bugs around the roots (I couldn't see them with my naked eye, but by then I needed Rx glasses, most folks I think *can* see them by naked eye) then you may want to consider root aphids. I say this mostly so that you can eliminate the possibility. Because often my problem-solving isn't accomplished by getting it right, but by getting it wrong. Process of elimination, right?
But I can totally understand what you're saying about the timing. Though I'm hoping it's not the blumats, because I thought they were all made by the same outfit.
If you see little aphid-looking bugs around the roots (I couldn't see them with my naked eye, but by then I needed Rx glasses, most folks I think *can* see them by naked eye) then you may want to consider root aphids. I say this mostly so that you can eliminate the possibility. Because often my problem-solving isn't accomplished by getting it right, but by getting it wrong. Process of elimination, right?
But I can totally understand what you're saying about the timing. Though I'm hoping it's not the blumats, because I thought they were all made by the same outfit.
Gardens Keeper
Member
I had RA's and you would see a lot more variation in the form of deficiencies in my opinions, but seamaiden is right this is a process of elimination so it would not hurt to check your soil for bugs. RA's will sometimes congregate on the base of the stem after watering to avoid the drench. The mature ones will be flying around. A UBS microscope from amazon for $6-20$ is the best thing to search and properly ID bugs with. RA's can often be mistaken for fungus gnats and vice versa. Fungus gnats babies = maggots and RA's look sort of like a crab and a stink bug combined. Both of these bugs can completely wreck your grow if left unchecked.
@seamaiden his blumats and the blumat material is not a worry he mentioned he bought tubing from a hydro store and did not use blumats tubing. This is what really makes me think after all the other eliminations that it is the damn tubing that so many of us lost crops too.
@seamaiden his blumats and the blumat material is not a worry he mentioned he bought tubing from a hydro store and did not use blumats tubing. This is what really makes me think after all the other eliminations that it is the damn tubing that so many of us lost crops too.
