Thoughts on a new room design, input pls.

[St3ve]

Sorry that you're disappointed in your final numbers. Don't sweat it though, its a learning experience.

And be careful planning for numbers like you are.. you never can tell and you don't want to just be disappointed again.

I would also not automatically discount pruning in flower. Yes you could have messed it up this time, but don't blame the technique for your failure. I don't mean to sound like a douche about it, I'm just saying that if the plants needs its, it needs it. If it doesn't, then don't do it. If you have overcrowding and sucker branches in flower, then it needs to be done.

Also, how were the roots? Did you find that they did not even take up HALF of those big pots? Looking at those pics you probably could have easily gone with a 2-3g for that size plant. What are you in now?

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

Sorry that you're disappointed in your final numbers. Don't sweat it though, its a learning experience.

absolutely, i never expected big numbers this run

And be careful planning for numbers like you are.. you never can tell and you don't want to just be disappointed again.

been there done that. thats why i said next run will tell if im right. You see where i say that 4 good plants should yield 27 ounces, but ill be happy with 20. Any future predictions are half guess and half bullshit.

I would also not automatically discount pruning in flower. Yes you could have messed it up this time, but don't blame the technique for your failure. I don't mean to sound like a douche about it, I'm just saying that if the plants needs its, it needs it. If it doesn't, then don't do it. If you have overcrowding and sucker branches in flower, then it needs to be done.

good advice, your not a douche. im justr double cautious now. if not triple.

Also, how were the roots? Did you find that they did not even take up HALF of those big pots? Looking at those pics you probably could have easily gone with a 2-3g for that size plant. What are you in now?

the roots did take up the full pot (in the wet pot not the dry one) but im confident that 3g will more than cover it this time round. im putting a lot of expectation on the new size pots working alot better, and so far its working that way.

EDIT : damn extractor fan in my veg cab died today. PITA.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

Sunday Update

Sunday Update

new agent orange clones just going into veg today :

4 weeks veg and the querkle clones go into the flower chamber (this is the size i will aim to veg to from now on) :

and querkles 4 weeks flowered, half way there :

the 4 weeks flowered just look soooo much better than last run, and i put it down to a decent size pot and consistent watering rather than constant fuckups. I know querkle doesnt yield well, but i think its possible to pull well over a pound this run. Next run will be better again with bigger plants, and agent orange im expecting to do better again

And the damn veg extractor fan bit the dust today, lucky its cool and i have a spare lying around. Finally buying all this shit i dont need, changing my mind about it, and not using it, is paying off
I have double the pots i need, double the blumats, double the hose, spare ballasts and reflectors, horseshoe water rings, and all sorts of shit. If i had room i would set up a second system identical to the first and double everything.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

I have 2 questions for the local experts :

im currently feeding GH MaxiGrow/MaxiBloom with some dripclean and silica. Should i be considering any other feed as well or something better to replace? All these adds for all these products that magically double yield make me wonder.

i currently have 2 old 600w magnetic ballasts. If i upgrade to digital ballasts will that do anything ?

EDIT : and a third question : do i need to add pearlite to my coco, or can i run just straight coco ?

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

BUMP

I have 3 questions for the local experts :

1) im currently feeding GH MaxiGrow/MaxiBloom with some dripclean and silica. Should i be considering any other feed as well or something better to replace? All these adds for all these products that magically double yield make me wonder.

2) i currently have 2 old 600w magnetic ballasts. If i upgrade to digital ballasts will that do anything ?

3) do i need to add pearlite to my coco, or can i run just straight coco ?

 

[St3ve]

I have 2 questions for the local experts :

im currently feeding GH MaxiGrow/MaxiBloom with some dripclean and silica. Should i be considering any other feed as well or something better to replace? All these adds for all these products that magically double yield make me wonder.

i currently have 2 old 600w magnetic ballasts. If i upgrade to digital ballasts will that do anything ?

EDIT : and a third question : do i need to add pearlite to my coco, or can i run just straight coco ?

The reason no one really jumped on this is because now you're in the realm of personal preference. Here's what I mean..

1) I *personally* don't like using MaxiGro/Bloom.. but thats not to say you can't grow great bud and get great yields with it. Dripclean is great, and silica is great. YOu don't NEED either to grow good bud.
2) Plenty of ppl use magnetic ballasts.. yes they are a little less efficient when it comes to converting electricity to light, and they get a little hotter, but they also don't cause electrical interference and cost more like electronic do/may. Will you grow more weed with a electronic over a magnetic? Possibly slightly more, but there are far more things to address in the room then that. For me? I would not rebuy something to get *maybe* no gain or slight gain. I would wait till the old ones die and replace them with electronic.
3)You don't NEED to add perlite or anything to coco. You can grow great bud with 100% coco. Depending on how you grow, you may find that cutting the coco with something to increase the drainage and allow more air to the roots COULD be a good thing. Do you hand water? Do you want to only water every few days? Leave it alone and it will hold more water. Do you want to do multiple autowaterings a day? Then yea more air is probably better. One of the reasons that hydro grows more bud than soil is because of the o2 getting to the roots. I personally don't care for perlite anymore because its a little annoying to work with. Meaning you get dust everywhere and breathe it in if you're not careful. I personally prefer the straight coco fiber over the coco coir because it holds far less water without the need to mix it with anything. But again.. just a preference.

 

[RetroGrow]

I think you should consider hempy buckets with coco. I get huge yields with two gallon pots: 8 ounces per plant running 18 plants in a smaller room with only 2 1000 watt HPS hung vertically. That's with a two month veg though. Check out hempy's thread. It is simplicity. Plants on the wall with lights in the center. Requires daily watering though. I find that tall plants do well in vert.

 

[St3ve]

lol really? Its nice that you are proud of your grow style but that doesn't mean you can't get "huge yields" from this or many other methods that AREN'T hempy buckets. I personally prefer cloth pots over 5 gallon buckets any day.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

The reason no one really jumped on this is because now you're in the realm of personal preference. Here's what I mean..

1) I *personally* don't like using MaxiGro/Bloom.. but thats not to say you can't grow great bud and get great yields with it. Dripclean is great, and silica is great. YOu don't NEED either to grow good bud.
2) Plenty of ppl use magnetic ballasts.. yes they are a little less efficient when it comes to converting electricity to light, and they get a little hotter, but they also don't cause electrical interference and cost more like electronic do/may. Will you grow more weed with a electronic over a magnetic? Possibly slightly more, but there are far more things to address in the room then that. For me? I would not rebuy something to get *maybe* no gain or slight gain. I would wait till the old ones die and replace them with electronic.
3)You don't NEED to add perlite or anything to coco. You can grow great bud with 100% coco. Depending on how you grow, you may find that cutting the coco with something to increase the drainage and allow more air to the roots COULD be a good thing. Do you hand water? Do you want to only water every few days? Leave it alone and it will hold more water. Do you want to do multiple autowaterings a day? Then yea more air is probably better. One of the reasons that hydro grows more bud than soil is because of the o2 getting to the roots. I personally don't care for perlite anymore because its a little annoying to work with. Meaning you get dust everywhere and breathe it in if you're not careful. I personally prefer the straight coco fiber over the coco coir because it holds far less water without the need to mix it with anything. But again.. just a preference.

awesome post st3ve : you answered all my questions without saying fuck all

dont mess with the ballasts : easy
dont need pearlite : awesome. I have no idea where to get the thicker grain coco fibres around here tho.
maxibloom is fine, you dont use it. my question was more of : should i be adding megasuperbigfatsharkspidergrowweight to my formula, and am i missing out on much by not using it?

I think you should consider hempy buckets with coco. I get huge yields with two gallon pots: 8 ounces per plant running 18 plants in a smaller room with only 2 1000 watt HPS hung vertically. That's with a two month veg though. Check out hempy's thread. It is simplicity. Plants on the wall with lights in the center. Requires daily watering though. I find that tall plants do well in vert.

i dont really want to throw out everything and start again. im happy with 3gal smartpots and blumats. I was more after tweaks advice than total reengineering advice. but getting 43 ounces per 600w (averaged out) impresses the shit outta me. thats over 2 grams per watt.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

just under 10 ounces .... if only i hadnt overpruned that plant!

so st3ve : just curious what is it you personally dont like about maxibloom?

 

[St3ve]

I personally don't use any boosters.. which leads me to why I don't use maxi.

1) I prefer FloraDua because its very clean and has chelated macros. So pH fuxing isn't as crucial. Plus, I can use the DuaBloom as a booster in mid flower.
2) Maxi is a pain to mix. You gotta use warm water or else it takes forever, and even still its annoying because it takes longer. PLUS it gets everything pink which is annoying. The Duo is very very clean.. no dyes and it doesn't leave salt buildup everywhere.

but thats just one mans opinion.

 

[RetroGrow]

lol really? Its nice that you are proud of your grow style but that doesn't mean you can't get "huge yields" from this or many other methods that AREN'T hempy buckets. I personally prefer cloth pots over 5 gallon buckets any day.

It's not my grow style. It's Hempy's. All props to him. And I'm not knocking OP's style. I just don't think it's anywhere near Hempys for yield and simplicity in small (2 gallon) pots. Just my 2 cents, not a criticism. If you don't believe it, do a side by side and be ready for a big surprise. I can't think of anything that out yields Hempys except bio buckets. Again, all IMHO.

 

[St3ve]

It's not my grow style. It's Hempy's. All props to him. And I'm not knocking OP's style. I just don't think it's anywhere near Hempys for yield and simplicity in small (2 gallon) pots. Just my 2 cents, not a criticism. If you don't believe it, do a side by side and be ready for a big surprise. I can't think of anything that out yields Hempys except bio buckets. Again, all IMHO.

The mere fact that you say "no where near a hempy bucket" is just silly. You obviously don't have the experience to back up what you're saying. Have you ever even grown in smart pots? Have YOU ever even got a "big surprise" from doing a side by side yourself? It is simpler in some respects, but some people don't get to there grows to hand water so for that it wouldn't work.. unless you build in an auto top off but then the simplicity goes out the window.

Hempy's design is ok but its far from perfect, and even HE will tell you that. Where it truly shines is for the hand waterer to have to water less often. Its not going to out grow any autowatering or DWC system that delivers more o2 to the roots.

but like I said before, coming in here and being excited over Hempy just isn't appropriate. And when I said "your method" I didn't mean that you invented it, I just meant that it is obviously what you are using.

 

[MrAwder]

im currently feeding GH MaxiGrow/MaxiBloom with some dripclean and silica. Should i be considering any other feed as well or something better to replace? All these adds for all these products that magically double yield make me wonder.

i currently have 2 old 600w magnetic ballasts. If i upgrade to digital ballasts will that do anything ?

EDIT : and a third question : do i need to add pearlite to my coco, or can i run just straight coco ?

Just sharing my opinions here since we seem to be doing things in a similar fashion.

- I would think about adding KoolBloom (dry). I add it 2-3 times during flower. I usually try and lower the amount of MB when I add this in order to lower N while upping P/K. I also just started using Roots Excelurator from H&G. It is expensive but I am impressed with it. Healthiest roots and fastest rooting for clones I have ever seen. I made the mistake of giving it to my moms also and now they are rootbound :/

- Not sure on the ballasts, but if the mags are working for you I would invest that money into something else. I am not familiar with your environmental setup but maybe you could make improvements there? Or possibly add an R/O filter if you don't have one (sorry I did not search back in the thread to check). If you already have all that then it might be worth while and you can hang onto one of the mags as a backup.

- My last run I did not add perlite. This time I am giving it another shot. I have also run coco with perlite already added. The issue with that is I think they added too much and the medium would dry out too much. So this time I mixed my coco and threw in a few handfuls of perlite. I just kept adding it until it felt "right". Sorry that is not very scientific. I want to maintain the great properties of coco, but I felt that some extra drainage would benefit the blumats and possibly help distribute moisture more evenly.

edit: forgot to add your plants look fantastic. nothing i grew this round produced nearly as much frost as your pics show.

 

[St3ve]

I think you should consider hempy buckets with coco. I get huge yields with two gallon pots: 8 ounces per plant running 18 plants in a smaller room with only 2 1000 watt HPS hung vertically. That's with a two month veg though. Check out hempy's thread. It is simplicity. Plants on the wall with lights in the center. Requires daily watering though. I find that tall plants do well in vert.

Wait a min.. I just looked at your numbers. You're telling us you pull Nine (9) pounds from 2,000w? (8x18/16= 9 pounds) 9 half-pound plants per 1k?

Maybe we SHOULD all switch to hempy's.




p.s. - yes I am being sarcastic my man, I call bs obviously
p.s.s- if you're saying that is a wet weight, then its the opposite of a huge yield

 

[RetroGrow]

Wait a min.. I just looked at your numbers. You're telling us you pull Nine (9) pounds from 2,000w? (8x18/16= 9 pounds) 9 half-pound plants per 1k?

Maybe we SHOULD all switch to hempy's.




p.s. - yes I am being sarcastic my man, I call bs obviously
p.s.s- if you're saying that is a wet weight, then its the opposite of a huge yield

Hempy regularly pulls 12 zips per plant. As I stated, two month veg, and a very high yielding strain, Critical Jack. Biggest colas I have seen. And that's in two gallon buckets. Dry weight. Fed every day for hydro roots. Most prolific strain I have seen. Veg time and strain are key. Never saw plants grow this big inside. Look at my hempy album. Those were Critical+. Yielded about 5 zips per plant with a one month veg in a smaller room, not vertical. Better check out Hempy's thread, Hempy buckets with coco. It's all right there.

 

[RetroGrow]

Hempy's design is ok but its far from perfect, and even HE will tell you that. Where it truly shines is for the hand waterer to have to water less often. Its not going to out grow any autowatering or DWC system that delivers more o2 to the roots.

It's NOT about watering less often. I have done multiple Hempy runs, and have found that watering every day to run off gives best results. Yes, you can water every 3 days, especially in bigger pots, but I out yielded my 5 gallon pots that were watered every 3 days in two gallon pots that were watered daily. The daily watering gives fresh oxygen every day, and creates hydro roots which increases yield dramatically. Much like bio buckets or DWC. The 8 ounce plants were 7 feet tall, and if you are looking for a high yielding strain, look no further than Critical Jack (Critical+ X Jack Herer). Also had a Super Lemon Haze that yielded 12 Zips, but that was an even longer veg. I have some pictures. I will have to dig them up.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

guys im not moving to hempy, or bio buckets or DWC. Im trying to refine my system not replace it.

I personally don't use any boosters.. which leads me to why I don't use maxi.

1) I prefer FloraDua because its very clean and has chelated macros. So pH fuxing isn't as crucial. Plus, I can use the DuaBloom as a booster in mid flower.

you dont use any boosters, but you use duabloom as a booster? Im not taking the piss i am trying to learn Anything that i can add for the full flower cycle that helps is of interest.

I also add an organic additive powder that is full of chealating stuff like fulvic and humic acids as well as other goodies I find it really brings out the quality of taste and smell. Google "kelp4less extreme blend"
Im eyeing off floranova as a possible replacement as i love the idea of organic-like stuff. im not convinced that it will change much over what im using now tho.

2) Maxi is a pain to mix. You gotta use warm water or else it takes forever, and even still its annoying because it takes longer. PLUS it gets everything pink which is annoying. The Duo is very very clean.. no dyes and it doesn't leave salt buildup everywhere.

it mixes easily for me, but i live in a warm part of the world. i also have a wave maker pump in each res to keep the water moving and mixing constantly

Just sharing my opinions here since we seem to be doing things in a similar fashion.

awesome, thats what im after

- I would think about adding KoolBloom (dry). I add it 2-3 times during flower. I usually try and lower the amount of MB when I add this in order to lower N while upping P/K.

this is the sort of thing im asking about. I run 2 lights 4 weeks apart in the same room with the same res. therefore whatever i put in goes to both sets of plants. So the bloom booster will go to a plant 2 weeks in flower as well as a plant in 6 weeks flower. It is possible to seperate resses, but thats extra work and i want to know theres a good reason to. Doesnt kool bloom just go in for the last few weeks like a PK booster?

- Not sure on the ballasts, but if the mags are working for you I would invest that money into something else. I am not familiar with your environmental setup but maybe you could make improvements there? Or possibly add an R/O filter if you don't have one (sorry I did not search back in the thread to check). If you already have all that then it might be worth while and you can hang onto one of the mags as a backup.

I have a RO system already. the only realy environment stuff i could add would be CO2 (not really interested) aircon or dehueys. Aircon would cost a bit and it would be awkward to ask a guy to install it in a room full of growing plants. ive thought about testing out a small dehuey tho.

- My last run I did not add perlite. This time I am giving it another shot. I have also run coco with perlite already added. The issue with that is I think they added too much and the medium would dry out too much. So this time I mixed my coco and threw in a few handfuls of perlite. I just kept adding it until it felt "right". Sorry that is not very scientific. I want to maintain the great properties of coco, but I felt that some extra drainage would benefit the blumats and possibly help distribute moisture more evenly.

now we get to the meat of it : what were the results from adding/not adding pearlite, and adding too much? i thought with blumats you could run in pure pearlite if you wanted? Im going to test a pot with coco fibre like St3ve suggested next run if i can find some. i really like the idea of extra drainage and o2.

edit: forgot to add your plants look fantastic. nothing i grew this round produced nearly as much frost as your pics show.

thanks mate. the strain (Querkle) keeps getting in lists of top 10 strongest strains and the like. 1 cone drops very expereinced smokers, its piss funny. but its a drop dead cant move stone and the yield isnt there. im moving to agent orange if it produces better.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

hey st3ve : is this the coco fibre you mean :

do you just use that pure in the pot with a blumat and it works? is it better than coco/pearlite ? if so im gonna try one pot next run.


im also curious about running an amended soil with only water grow to see how it goes.

 

[St3ve]

Hempy regularly pulls 12 zips per plant. As I stated, two month veg, and a very high yielding strain, Critical Jack. Biggest colas I have seen. And that's in two gallon buckets. Dry weight. Fed every day for hydro roots. Most prolific strain I have seen. Veg time and strain are key. Never saw plants grow this big inside. Look at my hempy album. Those were Critical+. Yielded about 5 zips per plant with a one month veg in a smaller room, not vertical. Better check out Hempy's thread, Hempy buckets with coco. It's all right there.

The numbers you are quoting here are not really relevant. The only way to compare is wattage versus yield. Veg time is irrelevant because most of us veg in a separate area. I mean, I can grow a 2# plant in a 5g pot but it doesn't matter if I have to use 3x600w around it.

So answer my direct questions:
1)How much dry weight do you pull in your 2k room because we all know its not 9#.
2) have you used smart pots?

Also, I know critical puts out alot of weight but its not the greatest smoke so I personally won't grow it.
Secondly, I have read the hempy thread start to finish a few times, and I've used the method twice. I agree with you that smaller buckets with watering more often is better, but its still not going to out perform a smart pot in a 2" drip tray. Have you compared the finished roots of a plant in a regular pot to the roots in a smart pot?

Sorry Dave for sidetracking..