Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[St3ve]

your right proof is in the pudding. shame you cant show us what you do so you can prove your point.

I suppose.. but many many people have posted pictures in this thread so I don't know how mine would be any different.

Plus my goal isn't to prove anything to anyone. I just feel the need to defend when people say something doesn't work when they have never (successfully) even tried it.

 

[St3ve]

IMO its all about having good leafs you know as a person gets better that is all he looks at LEAFS by looking at them you can determine Macro / or micro def by the time you catch a nute burn or def on bud leafs well lets just say you hurt your yield
by taking off from i under stand from this thread literally skinning a plant in veg is only going to send plant into repair mode i totally under stand possibly taking off a portion of leafs in flower if there blocking would i do it NOT i tuck leafs lets look at this guys plants
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=244366&page=6

you know for the amount of time it takes to veg and flower . Why mess around your better off getting better by keeping leafs green till harvest for maximum yield
by cutting leafs off veg or flower you can very easily cause plant disease from open wounds , and off course stress and slow growth these plants want to produce the best they can its in there genetics you can achieve tri fold yields by proper fimming , super cropping techniques, as well as topping here just from proper training look at the tops of plant theres like 50 branches per top as well as 50 tops per plant there you have it

PS: Still waiting on pictures of lower buds the size of top buds cause if your not getting it then its a waste of time in my books work on canopy management and producing lots of top buds

Why are you still posting in this thread? You have never successfully used this technique so to continue your thoughts and opinions on something you don't fully understand is kind of silly isn't it? I mean really, what is your point? You wouldn't sit around posting in an DWC thread if you've never done it right?

I swear I'm not trying to start shit, but its getting old reading your posts preaching about something you don't fully understand. I know you're great at what you do, but this isn't something you do so hows about bowing out of this one huh?

 

[medicalmj]

st3ve and all who have success:

I will say the only benefit I got was that I had less PM due to the fact that the leaf cut had spores alraedy there. But I did it around 1/2 in flwr and did not attain better yield (must say I had other issues - PM, root rot in rdwc, which I corrected but not before settin em back, so...).

What fundamental changes does it make to the plamt if done in veg? This thread is loooong so maybe direct me to the best page

 

[St3ve]

st3ve and all who have success:

I will say the only benefit I got was that I had less PM due to the fact that the leaf cut had spores alraedy there. But I did it around 1/2 in flwr and did not attain better yield (must say I had other issues - PM, root rot in rdwc, which I corrected but not before settin em back, so...).

What fundamental changes does it make to the plamt if done in veg? This thread is loooong so maybe direct me to the best page

I couldn't agree more that it would not increase yield if only done in flower. I would also go so far as to say it probably costed you some yield. What you probably noticed is that your tops and leads loss some weight and looked a little lanky. This is because the plants, prior to the time you defoliated in flower, had grow just the amount of leaves it needed. Once you've taken those away the plant has to waste energy to make new leaves and thus taking away from budding.

If done properly through out veg, the changes are night and day. It changes it to a much more dense and stocky plant in the given area it grows in. When you pluck the leaves in veg, the plant spends its energy to create more leaves and sites to replace the onces removed, instead of trying to grow longer branches and taller plants. What this does is slow down the vertical growth of the leads and focusing on restocking the plant with twice the amount of leaf sites, which in turn are bud-sites once you're in flower.

 

[DrFever]

i here all this if its done properly but still waiting to see pictures of lower buds looking like a top Bud,
I also messaged some friends Heath , and jorge C hopefully they will come in here and clarify things a little better for you to under stand plant biology

 

[dramamine]

when people start realizing them little lower popcorn bud sites are suckers that are only going to suck nutrients away from the nice bud sites
yea you want to smoke a bud if i want popcorn i will watch a movie

Your posts in this thread have been totally worthless. Everyone else knows more than you about this technique than you........because they've tried it. You were probably scared to top your plants until you realized it was the cool thing to do. Take your fucking vendetta elsewhere.

There are numerous pics of popcorn-free plants with buds all the way down. If you can't open your mind, at least open your eyes.

 

[grassott's dad]

i here all this if its done properly but still waiting to see pictures of lower buds looking like a top Bud,
I also messaged some friends Heath , and jorge C hopefully they will come in here and clarify things a little better for you to under stand plant biology

Wait no further...

This beast of a plant was grown by a guy called Hempy. Ever heard of him? He's one of the best indoor growers in the world IMHO. Oh, and he defoliates too.

Now the following pic shows the difference between a defol'd cola and a leafy one...

Not quite an ideal side by side, but notice the circled cola which was not defoliated? Not a very fat cola, but she had pretty nice looking leaves though (which is fine if that's what you wanna grow lol).

The rest of the crop was defoliated. Grown by my mate. Flowered under a 400w bulb. Burnt leaves galore, but the bud tastes fantastic. I'm smoking some of it right now as we speak and I'm stoned like a bitch on heat.

Here's a close up of one of the defoliated colas...

Much fatter than the non defoliated colas. The grower got over 380+ grammes dried. That's almost a pound o weed with a 400w bulb. Defoliated too!

 

[Greyskull]

Hempy as in 'i hate og kush' Hempy w the dali lama avatar?

Dr fever please tell us that bud is something wed want to smoke. Because ive seen similiar sized nugs of big bud that looked huge and awesome but no one wanted to smoke it that had any kind of palatte for the finer things.
Im not slinging stones im just asking wtf is that? It looks nice and chunky for sure...
You ever try defol drfever? Curious how a plant in your charge would respond.

Now....
In my experience, in non fucking scientific terms, defoliation is not something one just 'does'. Its an integration into the growing program to do things like a) improve airflow, b) focus energies at direct areas, improve bud sights. Done with a proper feeding regime in a perfect and stable environment where only a few leaves get plucked a day, ON FULLY HEALTHY STRESS FREE PLANTS, i tend to like the results compared to when i leave the fan leaves alone.

Ive tried 'pistil whipping', push n tuck, ehhhhhh.... Just not the stuff for me.

'Science says its not supposed to work'
Fucking science dance..

They say the same thing about helicopters and that they are not really supposed to work/fly by design. but they do. Dont they? Hahaha

To defol or not to defol.. This is like 'organic plants dont need a flush' and 'topping is bad bending is good' and 'should i move to mi or co' hahaha

Some folks win some lose with it.
Pretty much the folks losing from what i've seen arent firing perfectly healthy crops in perfect rooms or spaces. Dont take it as a slight folks im just calling an ace an ace and a spade a spade, K?

Different strokes for different folks for sure, right?

Get your grow on folks

 

[grassott's dad]

LOL greyskull. The man asked for big buds from the bottom of a plant so I showed him a fine piece of work what Hempy did. I don't think he used any co2 either.

And yes, defoliation is not just about "chopping off the leaves". Many of us defoliators will state that you need to get your environment in check. I personally would never defoliate in a harsh environment. We done a defol'd run ages ago in the winter. Doing it in a cold room is NOT good.

To do it properly you must chop off "selected" leaves at the right time (during both veg and flower) and in the right environment. Allowing light to hit the inners/lowers of a plant is very beneficial IME. LST-ing is also beneficial.

The OP might shoot me for saying this but in our situation pruning works great with defoliation too. (We don't grow in a small tunnel) but all grow rooms have their differences.

 

[sweetestsin420]

wow grassdaddy thats a damn nice plant,i really like the structure and how it buds,thats a sativa right?has to be lol

 

[Greyskull]

my program integrates both pruning sights and defoliating fans
I like youre style graasot.

Oh, I use these techniques OUTDOORS year round. I dont want to hear about doing outside is bad... as far as I can tell listening to folks saying "no you cant" is pretty stupid.
You can. I do. All year round.

but listen newbs and folks who don't know what the fuck you are doing:
if your room is not PERFECT, if you are not FAMILIAR with the cultivars and how they grow (ie grown the strains more than twice)... DONT FUCKING DO IT. PERIOD. Get rid of the bugs, get rid of the newbness....

 

[catman]

Well said Greyskull.

I personally would never defoliate in a harsh environment. We done a defol'd run ages ago in the winter. Doing it in a cold room is NOT good.

A cold room is not a problem. A dry room (air) is the problem I'd wager people have during colder months. Plants do grow more slowly in cooler temps, but they grow even slower when the ratio of temperature to humidity is off. Because carbon scrubbers lose capacity to control odor with RH above 50-60%...one must keep the room cold or otherwise the air is too dry as sensed by the plants. 85F with or without co2 is no good unless one can run RH into the 80s. Research what VPD is and what I've said will make more sense.

 

[catman]

Originally Posted by catman
Only Calcium and Magnesium uptake is dependent on transpiration which is reduced from less foliage surface area.
this statement isnt true, transpiration is what helps the plant pull in water into a plant and roots absorb water and nutrients not just just cal and mag. if a plant could select what nutrients it absorbed then you wouldnt be able to overfeed etc.
The above statement is true. You're thinking black and white. Of course transpiration is important and it serves other purposes such as being a way for the plant to cool itself down. Point being, we don't need to make the plant waste efforts on cooling itself when we properly control our environments. If what you said was true, more transpiration would amount to increased nutrient uptake and potentially greater growth. That would go against WHY plants thrive in tropical conditions where humidity is abundant.

Considering you say leafs both produce and store food; no need to produce what doesn't need to be stored.
most organisms store food.
Your comment here is irrelevant. What we are doing is producing fruits/food.. for ourselves.

I don't claim to have a compressive understanding on this topic and you don't either. So, I hope ya see your opinion is just as wrong as mine.
i dont have a fantastic understanding just a basic knowledge more than some less than others.if im wrong im happy to admit that.
Your wrong

5gal bucket sized buds under a 600w is what i was asking about. Not about yield. Don't say I'm wrong when ya can't read what I've said
little bit rude to assume i cant read. i qouted you in your last post where you asked if big buds like that could be produced under a 600w. and like i said before yes you dont have to use a 1000w to get massive buds.
It's not rude for me to point out what you aren't understanding; while you're being arrogant. You don't seem to understand what DrFever said about WHY he does what he does. Assumptions/desire for quality,quantity, and even efficiency aside, can you understand why what DrFever said about other people desiring 5gal sized colas? Effectiveness is more important than anything and we all have our own varying agendas.

for the record im not here to have a pissing contest but if people are gonna claim things as fact on a forum which is incorrect, someone is gonna try to correct it. good day to you sir..

Let's try and be a little more careful with what is fact and what is opinion then, shall we?

 

[DrFever]

Wait no further...
View Image

This beast of a plant was grown by a guy called Hempy. Ever heard of him? He's one of the best indoor growers in the world IMHO. Oh, and he defoliates too.

Now the following pic shows the difference between a defol'd cola and a leafy one...
View Image
Not quite an ideal side by side, but notice the circled cola which was not defoliated? Not a very fat cola, but she had pretty nice looking leaves though (which is fine if that's what you wanna grow lol).

The rest of the crop was defoliated. Grown by my mate. Flowered under a 400w bulb. Burnt leaves galore, but the bud tastes fantastic. I'm smoking some of it right now as we speak and I'm stoned like a bitch on heat.

Here's a close up of one of the defoliated colas...
View Image

Much fatter than the non defoliated colas. The grower got over 380+ grammes dried. That's almost a pound o weed with a 400w bulb. Defoliated too!

Again as you can see the buds are not fully joined up so in other words after trimmed and chopped you got small crap ??? Right cutting stems in between Also looks like you sure burnt them up must of bin hard to trim

 

[DrFever]

my program integrates both pruning sights and defoliating fans
I like youre style graasot.

Oh, I use these techniques OUTDOORS year round. I dont want to hear about doing outside is bad... as far as I can tell listening to folks saying "no you cant" is pretty stupid.
You can. I do. All year round.

but listen newbs and folks who don't know what the fuck you are doing:
if your room is not PERFECT, if you are not FAMILIAR with the cultivars and how they grow (ie grown the strains more than twice)... DONT FUCKING DO IT. PERIOD. Get rid of the bugs, get rid of the newbness....

i can;t find my pictures of my last out door 130 plant 54 pounds dry yield unfoilated pisses me off Either way i am not going to bother with it i will make my 10 pound 9 - 12 plant indoor grows just like i always Have Cheers

 

[grassott's dad]

Again as you can see the buds are not fully joined up so in other words after trimmed and chopped you got small crap ??? Right cutting stems in between Also looks like you sure burnt them up must of bin hard to trim

I'm not sure who's plants you're trying to diss. If you're dissing my mate's plants then that's cool. We'll live lol.

If you're trying to diss Hempy's plant then you must realise that the plant still had some filling out to do. I should also point out that Hempy's had top class breeders like Shanti in his garden, describing his plants as "monster sativas". He grows sativa dom plants and he's a big fan of haze. You on the other hand grow indicas. Totally different bud structure, but of course you knew that already right?

Here's another one of his fine pieces of work. Again it still had a coupla weeks left before harvest. For those into strains this plant grown by Hempy is Mango Haze from Mr Nice Seeds...

I don't know about you guys but I find Hempy's defoliated plants very inspirational

 

[Bionic]

My goodness! Those plants always make my mouth water!

 

[siftedunity]

I'm not sure who's plants you're trying to diss. If you're dissing my mate's plants then that's cool. We'll live lol.

If you're trying to diss Hempy's plant then you must realise that the plant still had some filling out to do. I should also point out that Hempy's had top class breeders like Shanti in his garden, describing his plants as "monster sativas". He grows sativa dom plants and he's a big fan of haze. You on the other hand grow indicas. Totally different bud structure, but of course you knew that already right?

Here's another one of his fine pieces of work. Again it still had a coupla weeks left before harvest. For those into strains this plant grown by Hempy is Mango Haze from Mr Nice Seeds...
View Image

I don't know about you guys but I find Hempy's defoliated plants very inspirational

sorry but that looks no diferent to any other sativa ive ever seen. infact it looks alot like some of shantis work.

 

[siftedunity]

Originally Posted by catman
Only Calcium and Magnesium uptake is dependent on transpiration which is reduced from less foliage surface area.
this statement isnt true, transpiration is what helps the plant pull in water into a plant and roots absorb water and nutrients not just just cal and mag. if a plant could select what nutrients it absorbed then you wouldnt be able to overfeed etc.
The above statement is true. You're thinking black and white. Of course transpiration is important and it serves other purposes such as being a way for the plant to cool itself down. Point being, we don't need to make the plant waste efforts on cooling itself when we properly control our environments. If what you said was true, more transpiration would amount to increased nutrient uptake and potentially greater growth. That would go against WHY plants thrive in tropical conditions where humidity is abundant.

Considering you say leafs both produce and store food; no need to produce what doesn't need to be stored.
most organisms store food.
Your comment here is irrelevant. What we are doing is producing fruits/food.. for ourselves.

I don't claim to have a compressive understanding on this topic and you don't either. So, I hope ya see your opinion is just as wrong as mine.
i dont have a fantastic understanding just a basic knowledge more than some less than others.if im wrong im happy to admit that.
Your wrong

5gal bucket sized buds under a 600w is what i was asking about. Not about yield. Don't say I'm wrong when ya can't read what I've said
little bit rude to assume i cant read. i qouted you in your last post where you asked if big buds like that could be produced under a 600w. and like i said before yes you dont have to use a 1000w to get massive buds.
It's not rude for me to point out what you aren't understanding; while you're being arrogant. You don't seem to understand what DrFever said about WHY he does what he does. Assumptions/desire for quality,quantity, and even efficiency aside, can you understand why what DrFever said about other people desiring 5gal sized colas? Effectiveness is more important than anything and we all have our own varying agendas.


Let's try and be a little more careful with what is fact and what is opinion then, shall we?

transpiration does not cool plants down. plants dont have any mechanism for cooling down. and cannabis doesnt grow in the rainforest. plants that do have adapted to that enviroment over thoussands of years. in fact everything you have said shows how little you actually know. i run a plant nursery and its my living. ive also got a few qualifications in biology which i wont go into for anonimity reasons. i cant be bothered to argue with you any longer so il agree to disagree with you. you can always post up some pics of your heavy yielding grows so you can show me up completely..

good day!

 

[Greyskull]

and cannabis doesnt grow in the rainforest. plants that do have adapted to that enviroment over thoussands of years. in fact everything you have said shows how little you actually know. i run a plant nursery and its my living. ive also got a few qualifications in biology which i wont go into for anonimity reasons.

I've seen cannabis plant growing and flowering in the rainforests in Haiku. North shore maui.

I know they grow cannabis on the east side of Maui - Hana ... That is rainforest area too.

What do you mean you cant grow cannabis in a rainforest?

YOU CAN. Happens all the time.

Waiting for scientific answer....

*dont post bullshit dumbass blanket statements you know nothing about. Especially after you post about how you are a biology qualifications holder and a bunch of shit about running a nursery... that just makes you look more retarded when you fuck up.

Thats like folks saying you cant grow og or chem or indicas in Hawaii... STUPID. Because i do it year round, homie.

You can grow cannabis in rainforests.
FACT.
GET YOU SHIT STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU START SPOUTING OFF THIS THAT AND THE OTHER BECAUSE YOUR INACCURACIES WILL DETRACT FROM WHATEVER ACCURACY YOU CLAIM.