Terpineol causing sparks

[montroller]

So I recently ran a batch of pineapple express and Did my usual vac purge until all the bubbles were gone. After letting it cure to the consistency I like I tried dabbing it and there are a lot of fireworks. I don't get any burn in my nose or throat that I usually associate with residual butane And am very confident in my purge process that I got all of it out.

The biggest difference with this batch is that I ran it literally hours off the plant in hope of retaining most of the terps. Doing a little bit of research I found out the terpineol is a monoterpine alcohol. Now I am no chemistry wizard but I would suspect that the sparks could be caused by the alcohol in terpineol. Anyone who knows more about this is welcome to speculate but my biggest question would be is it safe?

here is a picture before curing you can see it is a nice clear sap but it still has a light display when dabbed.

BTW there was no ISO used in my process even though it is in the background of the image.

 

[midwestHIGHS]

After many days of vacing this year at constant heat, I dont believe you can fully remove butane from the hash oil. You can get it to the point where its safe to consume, but there will always be ppm of residual solvent using one non-polar solvent IMO and IME. THe only way to 100% fully remove butane is using a secondary solvent such as ethanol. I can make crystal clear totally transparent oil with zero bubbles that I can distinguish colors threw its so clear and still have plenty of butane trapped. I've vaced and vaced and vaced just to see what would happen with no regard for terpene preservation and only a quest to remove solvent. And it never stops bubbling rainbow tinted bubbles, unless it starts to turn into honeycomb and thus becomes stable and wont release any more butane under vacuum unless higher heat is used to melt it down into a viscous oil again.


Try dragging your dabber over the surface of your oil to help bring out residual butane trapped with in once you get to the point where it stops bubbling. Then throw it back in the vac, it will muffin up like you put it in the first time, and vac untill bubbling stops again, now continue this over and over untill satisfied.This will help bring out butane thats trapped deep within oil, because the surface tension of hash oil is so high that it will get to a point where it needs slight agitation to continue bubbles to form rapidly even at -29"hg. Otherwise it just stops bubbling and still has a decent amount of butane trapped in thus causing it to spark alot.

What kind of chamber do you use?

 

[montroller]

I have a bel art chamber and I also have tried vac at 150 for up to 3 days with no signs of bubbles stopping but I think that is because heat was too high and terps were being released rapidly making it look like solvent was boiling out. If I keep temps below 120 then the bubbles stop forming eventually. I am going to get this batch solvent tested at SC Labs sometime with the next 2 weeks so I will let you guys know the results.

 

[kmk420kali]

Could it be that you had a touch of moisture from using fresh bud??
I just smoked some that a friend made, and he got some water in it while floating it in water-- It sparkled when lighting also--

 

[midwestHIGHS]

I dont know why people think terpenes cause reaction when released, the only bubbles when processing oil is from solvent, moisture and decarboxylation. edited

I know these bubbles are butane because they have rainbow tint on them similiar to the effect of gasoline on water. You can only see the rainbow tint under perfect light and on an angle. This is butane. Terpenes are realeased at room temp with no reaction. Under heat and vacuum they still are released with no reaction, any bubbles are solvent if your under decarboxylation temperatures.

 

[montroller]

Wouldn't decarboxylation temps be affected by vac though?

And the reason I think some smaller bubbles are terps is because I can purge the larger bubbles until they are gone and open the chamber and get a nice whiff of some bomb bho but when I see those small bubbles start and open the chamber the nice whiff turns to a hurricane of smell. Also I have had a few recent batches get tested at SC labs for solvent and all of them passed.

 

[midwestHIGHS]

double post sorry about that
And to who ever neg repped the op on his first post, that shits weak all he was doing was asking a question.

 

[midwestHIGHS]

Yes your right decarboxylation temps would be affected by vacuum.
If terpenes created a visible reaction we could see, then why isn't oil, hash, bud, kief giving off smells with no reaction? Any organic material you can smell is releasing terpenes at room temp thats why you can smell them.


I remeber when SC labs said they were going to start doing this, but never actually seen anybody get theirs solvent tested and post about it. Could you post your test results, I'd love to see them. Does sc labs use a standard like if it's under 100ppm it passes the solvent test, or does it have be completely free of solvent to pass.

Thanks for posting and welcome to ICmag I forgot to say that lol

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

I dont know why people think terpenes cause reaction when released, the only bubbles when processing oil is from solvent and decarboxylation.

I know these bubbles are butane because they have rainbow tint on them similiar to the effect of gasoline on water. You can only see the rainbow tint under perfect light and on an angle. This is butane. Terpenes are realeased at room temp with no reaction. Under heat and vacuum they still are released with no reaction, any bubbles are solvent if your under decarboxylation temperatures.

some of the bubbles are not butane, pm me if you need proof of it, i know a simple test you can do to prove it to yourself.

 

[midwestHIGHS]

Ya I forgot to add that water and moisture also create bubbles, but still the rainbow tinted bubbles never seem to cease under vacuum and constant heat. How would I go about this simple test hmk?

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

its not water and moisture. the simple test involves totally overpurging oil until its very dark.

if you can purge it at too high a temperature for long enough, no more bubbles will form, even under agitation etc. then add a small amount of very pure kif to the mix while its warm. the dissolving kif releases massive amounts of very small foamy/frothy bubbles into the mix.

 

[Gray Wolf]

By the word dab, I infer that you are vaporizing, not using flame. May I ask what the "fireworks" looked like and at what temperature you were vaporizing? At vaporizing temperatures, the only action I've observed with contaminants in the oil, is sputtering and popping from water.

What happens when you stick your dabber in the torch flame and burn the oil off?

What was your extraction procedure? Did you freeze the material and chill the butane first?

Butane can still absorb up to 32 ml/liter water and would be leaving it behind in your oil.

Many of the terpenes are Monoterpenes alcohols, ethers, esters, aldehydes, or ketones. They all are noted for their strong odors and all are flammable, as are the cannabinoids longer diterpenes molecules.

The lighter Monoterpenes and even Sequiterpenes, are so volatile, that many cast off molecules at room temperature, far below their boiling points.

When purging, I note the randomly sized solvent bubbles come off first. If they are touched by a flame, they will burn.

If I am using enough heat to also decarboxylate, they are followed by small fizzy bubbles of equal size, which are not flammable.

Since the heat involved and the boiling action of the solvent aid the mono and Sequiterpenes molecules to exit faster, some of them are lost as well, and by full decarboxylation, they are so reduced, as to totally change the dominant taste of the oil from floral, to hashy.

While the molecules are definitely flammable, they are typically present in such low percentage, as to not come off in massive amounts at once, or we would get flares burning the trichomes, where they are more concentrated.

 

[TheBioMaster]

Question for you experienced guys- Does making bubble hash from using water and ice extraction methods not produce a strong enough product?

I have always wondered why people choose this butane method to get the oil, and I understand that the oil would be stronger, but it is too strong and messes with your tolerance IMHO.....

Top grade quality bubble hash that "bubbles" when smoked like in a glass pipe would seem to be a better and much much safer choice (especially to a body that is already weakened and sick to begin with) and should provide all the strength that is needed for it to work well, like stopping pain for example......

To me no amount of Butane is a "ok" amount to consume, regardless of how little is left behind......

You guys should check the bubble man at full melt bubble as they have a saying...."If it dont bubble, it is not worth the trouble"

The quality that is seen checking out the site is AMAZING and I am betting it would work better than butone oil extraction.....making bubble hash is a for real "art form" and the people that practice and perfect the methods produce the most potent form of medication imaginable!!
Just curious......

 

[montroller]

Thanks for all the responses

My process involves a SS tube packed tightly with unground material. Normally I freeze both product and butane before running but this time I ran it almost directly off the plant so i didn't have time to freeze. After, I do hot water baths until larger bubbles slow down. Then vac with no heat until the bubbles won't pop on there own. Then, I slowly increase the heat inside the chamber using light, never exceeding 120, until all bubbles are gone.

The fireworks look like tiny little sap fireballs shooting off the TI pad and they take a second to start. Sometimes on a small dab it is not even noticeable.

I am pretty sure there is still some moisture in there because i didn't freeze the material. Does anyone have a way to get out the moisture without using any heat?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Question for you experienced guys- Does making bubble hash from using water and ice extraction methods not produce a strong enough product?

I have always wondered why people choose this butane method to get the oil, and I understand that the oil would be stronger, but it is too strong and messes with your tolerance IMHO.....

Top grade quality bubble hash that "bubbles" when smoked like in a glass pipe would seem to be a better and much much safer choice (especially to a body that is already weakened and sick to begin with) and should provide all the strength that is needed for it to work well, like stopping pain for example......

To me no amount of Butane is a "ok" amount to consume, regardless of how little it left behind......

Just curious......

But not curious enough to actually try the other different extracts, or even read the volumes already discussed on the subject in this forum.

You will find your question makes older denizens weary, because those before you disrupted oil threads with a hidden agenda to destroy the thread, regardless of how naively they presented themselves.

Might I suggest that you prove that you are not one of them, by demonstrating that you have done enough research to warrant a serious response. For instance, might you share your formulas for hash sublingual's, topicals, and suppositories?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Thanks for all the responses

My process involves a SS tube packed tightly with unground material. Normally I freeze both product and butane before running but this time I ran it almost directly off the plant so i didn't have time to freeze. After, I do hot water baths until larger bubbles slow down. Then vac with no heat until the bubbles won't pop on there own. Then, I slowly increase the heat inside the chamber using light, never exceeding 120, until all bubbles are gone.

The fireworks look like tiny little sap fireballs shooting off the TI pad and they take a second to start. Sometimes on a small dab it is not even noticeable.

I am pretty sure there is still some moisture in there because i didn't freeze the material. Does anyone have a way to get out the moisture without using any heat?

No, but you might try 140F and a hard vacuum.

 

[montroller]

When you say hard vacuum do you mean to leave the pump running? Or just pull to the highest vac I can achieve?

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

i had the mini spark phenomena one or two times years ago. not sure what it was.

 

[midwestHIGHS]

Leave the pump running for a bit. It also helps to have a chamber that you can keep at constant heat. Either way moisture/water would not cause the oil to throw sparks, solvent would. Water or moisture in your oil will give you loud pops, snaps and crackles.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

well when i had the phenomena, i think it was some foreign contaminant somehow. i had made oil enough times already by then to know it wasnt normal, or residual butane.