NOT "Safe to spray up till day of Harvest."!!

[supermanlives]

is azatrol cheaper than azamax? i have always used azamax. but i use it properly and have no issues.

 

[Granger2]

Neem has been used herbally and in Ayurvetic medicine for centuries. Just as aspirin, peanuts, and many many other things are fine for most people, they can cause ill effects and even be life threatening for others. I avoid using anything during bloom. On my current 1 light crop [summer at 30 degrees N.] I sprayed with Azasol 1 week into 12/12. End of week 7 and no mites so far.

I am having to take all kinds of precautions because of the confounded [i.e. fucking] Root Aphids. Staying organic. Repeat applications of Botanigard and todes. At the end of veg, I did a 20 minute root soak with Cedarcide PCO Choice 1 oz/gal., followed by a 1 gal RO flush per 3 gal AeroBag w/coco/perlite, fearing root damage if Cedarcide not flushed out.

I got a sample of Azasol, and hoped that spraying the leaves would systemically help w/ the RA problem. Didn't want to apply to medium cuzza possible ill effects to my nematode buddies.

Azasol has no oil at all. It is totally and instantly water soluble. It has a much better systemic effect as a result. The spray solution has no Neem type smell to my nose, but the claim is that bugs/mites have a different opinion.

I wonder if Hydro-soil would be affected the same way with Azasol. Care to be a guinea pig? lol

I feel OK about the app at 7days into bloom because of Hydro-soil's experience. Thanks, Hydrosoil for passing this info along. You've reminded us that applying anything to a food crop is to be avoided, and that "organic," while preferable to chemical solutions, is not completely fool proof. Maybe I'll try some hemlock or rattlesnake venom, since they're organic... -granger

 

[Terpene]

I am going to be hated on for everything I'm about to post..

There are no pesticides, neems, oils or products labeled for marijuana as it is illegal on a federal level. Using that as a justification for safety is only about half correct.

Before my fellow organo-nuts fly off the handle: I am NOT advocating the off-label use of pesticides, however they can be used intelligently if you learn about the product before using it. Before using any product on any plant you intend to consume you should always search for information on two things:

Product label (correct use, dosage, insects that particular product is used for and most importantly, the active ingredient in the pesticide)
"Environmental Fate" of the active ingredient (EPA studies on length of time that particular pesticide lasts within plant matter / soil / clay / under UV exposure / etc.)

Now, that said - don't use any pesticides / oils in flower, you're just asking for trouble. The resin/oil production of cannabis means that you can semi-emulsify the pesticide and in theory keep part of it in suspension.

On the other hand, the intense amount of wind / light / UV you'll be bombarding the plant with means whatever product you're using will degrade at a pretty rapid rate - but still, no pesticides in flower this is medicine and your lungs we're talking about here..

The most important thing I want to stress is that EVERY product sold to kill pests has some degree of toxicity. I don't care how "organic" a product is, it still is able to end life and thus requires some level of toxicity. This especially applies to the sale of neem oils and whatever other magic recipes companies come up with.

Last note, if you're scoring clones or plants from other sources, quarantine them and treat them in veg away from your other plants. It's important to remember that every new addition brings the potential for additional pests / mold / disease and that those organisms will try to thrive like anything else. Personally, I prefer to grow from seed as it tends to limit the amount of pest introduction.

Be safe my friends.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I feel OK about the app at 7days into bloom because of Hydro-soil's experience. Thanks, Hydrosoil for passing this info along. You've reminded us that applying anything to a food crop is to be avoided, and that "organic," while preferable to chemical solutions, is not completely fool proof. Maybe I'll try some hemlock or rattlesnake venom, since they're organic... -granger

Personally I wouldn't spray anything on my plants during flower, not even the first day of flower. Only systemically on the first day of flower.

Day 7? I sure hope it's not oily like you say it isn't.... that's way too late and I'd probably be able to taste it, even if it didn't effect me like the other neem products.

Nothing in flower folks. Figure you're issues out in veg and keep things ultra clean (filtered intakes are a MUST).

Stay Safe!

p.s. yes... I'd be willing to test it. Just not going to buy it and use it myself to find out.

 

[siddhartha]

Keep spreading the word.
Sidd

 

[CanniDo Cowboy]

Of course, the use Of ANY Pesticides should be done with caution. But lets face it, in the med growing industry, there is also a matter of grower responsibility and grower integrity. Here's the problem- You have a legal/illegal crop, depending on where you live, being grown and sold by a bazillion, self-titled Tom, Dick and Harry growers all within an industry lacking anything resembling consumer health guidelines. That said, Tom doesnt know anything about growing so ignorance is bliss when it comes to using pesticides, Dick knows little more than Tom but he needs to recoup his investment monies and also pay the rent so he doesnt bother to read the label either and ol Harry, he could give a shit less either way. Spray em, spray em all up until the day before harvest cause the crop will be sold to some out of state yahoo before weeks end. Or so he hopes.

So, who's at fault for putting tainted meds on the market? Is it the first crop rookie who knows little or nothing about gardening and when faced with a spider mite invasion, trots on down to the local grow store where the clerk is more than glad to sell him something that neither one really truly understands the lethal level in terms of environmental impact and especially personal health effects? Or is it the commercial grower who knows better but in the interest of financial investment recovery and profit, turns his back on the integrity of proper med grower and sprays the flowers with whatever he can get his hands on in hopes of saving the crop.

Yes, the author of this thread has brought up an important topic. But unfortunately, the overall importance of careful use of pesticides does not begin or end with reading the label. Sure, read the instructions carefully before using ANY pesticide but sadly, some growers dont know enough to care and some dont care because although they do know what theyre doing, they lack the integrity and pride to strive to produce a safe crop. In any industry, money is usually the bottom line. When you combine that with a lack of health controls, yes, a "please use caution" is certainly necessary but on the other hand, if you do come across pesticide tainted meds, it shouldnt really come as a big surprise. And the guy sitting next you coughing up a pesticide filled lung most likely will say: Man, (cough cough), this is some (cough cough), real good shit..." CC

 

[Hydro-Soil]

And the guy sitting next you coughing up a pesticide filled lung most likely will say: Man, (cough cough), this is some (cough cough), real good shit..." CC

Yeah... got some of that from the local dispensary. TONS of pyrethrins, just disgusting. I almost puked the first bonghit up into the sink.

Took it back, let the 'OWNER' know up front that it was contaminated with pesticides and that I almost puked in the sink from the first hit.

Owner: "Oh really? Some people seem to really like that." As he put the shit back in the jar and put the jar back on the shelf.... to sell it to someone else. *sigh*

I don't go there anymore, ever.

Stay Safe!

 

[skullznroses]

Im not sure you guys are talking about indoor or outdoor. I have used Neem spray into flower outdoors many times over many years, and have never tasted or had a bad flavor on my bud. I don't spray more then the first few weeks into flower when the buds are really just hairs coming out of nodes. Perhaps is it the outdoor environment and rain washing the neem off eventually. I understand that not using this stuff indoors is more important because your buds aren't getting washed by rain.

I'll be spraying my plants with neem today if I get a break in the weather.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Im not sure you guys are talking about indoor or outdoor. I have used Neem spray into flower outdoors many times over many years, and have never tasted or had a bad flavor on my bud.

Taste is highly subjective. No one around here can taste it either.

I CAN!

Stay Safe!


p.s. I've had absolutely HORRIBLE stuff that the grower was like "what? That isn't tasty? It tastes great to me!"
I wish it was only one time. *sigh*

 

[Muleskinner]

Taste is highly subjective. No one around here can taste it either.

I CAN!

Stay Safe!


p.s. I've had absolutely HORRIBLE stuff that the grower was like "what? That isn't tasty? It tastes great to me!"
I wish it was only one time. *sigh*

at the same time, let's not lose our objectivity and get frantic over this. It looks to me like grower after grower is saying Neem is fine in the first 1-2 weeks of flowering. Does that mean it's OK for the rest of flowering? No.

Believe me I would taste or smell Einstein's oil in my tomatoes or herbs, it reeks of not only Neem but also garlic which I hate and can barely eat.

Most commersh growers are 100% full of BS when they talk about their crop, we all know that, of course most of them will spray anything and lie about it. Welcome to Prohibition.

I think these oils are very useful for indoor growing which many people typically start when temps cool in the fall. I use the Neem every couple weeks on the plants through veg and the first week of flowering, with the intent of repelling any mites that come in from outside.

By the time flowering starts, it's cold outside, and my space is safe for the winter. Einstein's oil has kept me 100% organic and been very effective this way. Flowers are full of citrus and tropical fruit smell & taste.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

at the same time, let's not lose our objectivity and get frantic over this. It looks to me like grower after grower

with bricks for tastebuds.....

is saying Neem is fine in the first 1-2 weeks of flowering.

I understand that this doesn't matter to most of the population.... the issue is that it's a health hazard, whether you can tell it's there or not.

Neem at 2 weeks in? Not interested in the end product in the slightest. Disgusting to me.

Thanks anyway.

Stay Safe!

 

[east_side]

Very interesting tread! Thanks for all the info! So what would be the solution for mites week 3 in flower? I kinda dont know what to do!!

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Very interesting thread! Thanks for all the info! So what would be the solution for mites week 3 in flower? I kinda dont know what to do!!

Having mites during flower is really tough and makes for a lot of work.

What I would do is mix up whatever mite control you're going to use and manually wipe every leaf on each plant. It's a real pain in the butt to do without dripping on the buds. Get both sides of each leaf and the stem.

The problem is that it's not going to stop them... just slow them down and mainly keep them off the buds.

Others have stated that spraying with water also helps control them... alternate days washing the leaves and spraying the plants down to minimize dripping on the buds.

Stay Safe!

 

[ClackamasCootz]

>>chuckle<<

 

[growshopfrank]

i cant stand neem.. i hate gettin it on my skin, so I hate using it... and i cant stand the smell...

a much cleaner and more effective cure for mites and thrips is spinosad

for a root drench, im really diggin orange guard at
1-2 oz a gallon, its a good foliar too, very clean and non irritating

I believe spinosad is organic certified to day of harvest for leaf lettuce as well as certified for tobacco but I still wear a spray suit and respirator when I fog the shit
at least as effective as avid or floramite on mites,good stuff

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Having mites during flower is really tough and makes for a lot of work.

What I would do is mix up whatever mite control you're going to use and manually wipe every leaf on each plant. It's a real pain in the butt to do without dripping on the buds. Get both sides of each leaf and the stem.

The problem is that it's not going to stop them... just slow them down and mainly keep them off the buds.

I would think that this would have the opposite effect. If you are only treating the leaves/stems... wouldn't the mites be inclined to congregate on the buds themselves as they are the only safe place on the plant for them?



Mites in flower are a grower's worst nightmare. Just try to get em' down and take preventive measures to ensure they do not return in the future on flowering plants. I can't use neem myself - even in veg.. shit makes me gag just smelling/working with it.



Hydro-Soil - do your correlate your clean diet to being able to maintain a keen sense of smell and taste for these types of things? Have you always been able to taste like this or is it merely a result of ridding your body of unhealthy foods?

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I would think that this would have the opposite effect. If you are only treating the leaves/stems... wouldn't the mites be inclined to congregate on the buds themselves as they are the only safe place on the plant for them?

I've actually done this for other growers and found that it does indeed keep them off the buds. As far as I can tell, they don't like the buds that much and really only go to them later, when they're running out of leaves.

Hydro-Soil - do your correlate your clean diet to being able to maintain a keen sense of smell and taste for these types of things? Have you always been able to taste like this or is it merely a result of ridding your body of unhealthy foods?

I've always had a horrible diet... up until the last few years. The sensitivity has always been there though.

What HAS happened, since I've quit all processed foods, is that it's increased dramatically. Without leftover mono and di-glycerides and all those other 'coating' oils in the foods in my system... I'm actually getting more and more sensitive.

Case in point is the coco butter that I can feel on my tongue now when people use lotion. Maybe it's some new lotion or something, but I swear I wasn't ever able to feel it from so far away.

Seems like folks are wearing more fabric softener and perfumes too... but doubtful. I'd say it's more that my sensitivity is a lot less clogged now. LOL

Stay Safe!

 

[Hydro-Soil]

BTW....

This azatrol and azamax definitely bio-accumulates.

I spent 2 days not medicating and the issues went away. Got a tiny spritz of azatrol on my face (I know... like WFT are you stupid? Yeah, apparently) and I've been out for the last 2 days.... I'm pretty sure I know how the mites feel.

Vomiting a couple times... but no nausea.
Complete lack of appetite.
Hard gas bubbles in the intestines.
Constipation.
Muscle tension in both gut and back.
Chills occasionally, on the first day.

Absolutely no desire to mate. Gack!

I'm looking into alternatives that don't use neem. I'm really not interested in dealing with this anymore.

Stay Safe!

 

[Terpene]

I believe spinosad is organic certified to day of harvest for leaf lettuce as well as certified for tobacco but I still wear a spray suit and respirator when I fog the shit
at least as effective as avid or floramite on mites,good stuff

This is why I said reading / learning is key. Check label / envinronmental fate. Spinosad is just as "organic" as Avid. Less toxic than avid, but still harvested via similar/ same means. Its byproduct of bacteria as is Avid, just both are synthetically recreated and sold.

Spinosad insecticide is based on a compound found in a recently discovered bacterial species Saccharopolyspora spinosa(S. spinosa). Mycelium. S. spinosa was isolated from soil collected inside a non-operational sugar mill rum still in the Virgin Islands. over 200 synthetic forms (spinosoids) have been produced in the lab. Spinosad insecticide contains a racemic mix of two spinosoids, Spinosyn A, the major component, and Spinosyn D (the minor component), in an approximately 17:3 ratio.


Abamectin(avid) is a mixture of avermectins containing more than 80% avermectin B1a and less than 20% avermectin B1b. Avermectins are naturally occurring compounds generated as fermentation products by streptomyces avermitilis, a soil based bacteria. Other pesticides derived from the avermectins include ivermectin, selamectin, doramectin and abamectin.

BTW....

This azatrol and azamax definitely bio-accumulates.

I spent 2 days not medicating and the issues went away. Got a tiny spritz of azatrol on my face (I know... like WFT are you stupid? Yeah, apparently) and I've been out for the last 2 days.... I'm pretty sure I know how the mites feel.

Vomiting a couple times... but no nausea.
Complete lack of appetite.
Hard gas bubbles in the intestines.
Constipation.
Muscle tension in both gut and back.
Chills occasionally, on the first day.

Absolutely no desire to mate. Gack!

I'm looking into alternatives that don't use neem. I'm really not interested in dealing with this anymore.

Azatrol contacting skin causing those reactions is serious. Have you talked to your doctor about your sensitivity / allergy? It's rare for such a harsh reaction to these chemicals - did you use a large amount of pesticides on this or other crops in the past? Sometimes people develop sensitivity after chronic exposure. If not, you may be one of the rare cases of folks who are seriously allergic to modern pesticides / pyrethroids. It may be worth checking into as lots of other food crops are treated as well.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Your post is much appreciated... thank you.

No allergy, no rash.

I've been toking local meds for a year now... ALL of it is contaminated here in the mountains.... or at least _I_ haven't found any clean growers. *sigh* Hence the 'bio-accumulation' statement.

Seems it's been accumulating in my system for quite some time.

Turns out the gut pain is an ulcer... radiating to the back. No blood yet, so I'll be fine. Feeling better already. I'm pretty sure the active ingredient in both products is causing a seriously acidic condition in my body... nothing else I've been eating or doing has the same effect.

I don't do doctors. I'll go to a surgeon and they've been very helpful... but on the whole, doctors have done nothing but screw up my life and make my health worse. Sorry.

Stay Safe!