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New amended oraganic mix, thoughts?

A

anferneybra

Member
starting another batch of soil and adding some new things to the mix. was going to see what peoples thoughts were:

8 bags roots organic soil
5lbs blood meal 12-0-0
5lbs fish bone meal 3-18-0
5lbs bat guano 0-5-0
3lbs rock phosphate 0-2-0
3lbs alfalfa meal 2-1-2
1 cup potash 0-0-50
1 cup prilled dolomite
1 cup epsom
1 cup granular humic
1 cup azomite
mycos as needed during trasnplant from 3 gallon to 7 gallon

bake for 30-60 days in sun, mixing every week

the only new things this run are the alfalfa meal and potash, because of a need for some heavy feeding on K side of things, its a modified subcool recipe. that way i only need microbe teas and fresh water :) any experience with alfalfa meal and potash additives would be great, thanks guys!

and yes, this is my flowering mix only, not for babies!

also, anyone have input on neem seed? i could use some preventative in the soil for them root aphids/thrips!
 
Last edited:
Neo 420

Neo 420

Active member
Veteran
Any special reasoning on why you are baking your soil in the sun? I actually let my soil sit in a room and compost. Are you trying to kill off something in the soil?
 
A

anferneybra

Member
Cootz - it is indeed potash sulfate (potassium sulfate)

Neo - i cook it in the sun during the day, to reach temps around 130 degrees to cook off any bugs or crappy seeds from random stuff in the roots if its there
 
A

anferneybra

Member
What good guys are you trying to keep around?

I know probably nematodes or something, but I would rather be on the safe side that any thrips, root aphids, bad nematodes and seeds from crap in there are dead :)

Plus to breakdown the raw materials involved and really make sure the soil is "living" true composting occurs around 130 degrees, and its only for like 6-8 hours a day, then moved back inside to around 100 degrees.

This will supercharge your soil! vroom vroom!
 
R

RanchoDeluxe

Member
Your soil will heat up all by itself, no need to move it into the sun and then back inside everyday. It actually makes me tired just thinking about it. That is why people will call their soil mix "hot". Mix your soil up with all your additives, wait a couple days and then stick your hand into the middle of it. Should feel rather warm.
It's also safer to use kelp meal until you get a handle on that K-mag. I'd also get rid of the epsom salts as they are not microherd friendly..

Peace
 
J

jerry111165

Plus to breakdown the raw materials involved and really make sure the soil is "living" true composting occurs around 130 degrees, and its only for like 6-8 hours a day, then moved back inside to around 100 degrees.

Not true. Heat is not needed for composting. Granted, it may take longer but faster is not always necessarily a good thing.

Does the forest floor hit 130 degrees?

J

Edit - then there's vermicomposting to think about - yet another instance where no heat is involved - hopefully...
 
A

anferneybra

Member
Maintaining a Hot Compost Pile
The two keys to success with hot composting are monitoring soil temperature and moisture and turning regularly.
The optimal temperature for microbial activity is 130 to 140 degrees Fahrenheit. You can measure this with a soil/compost thermometer, or by simply sticking your hand into the pile. If it's uncomfortably hot, it's at the right temperature. At 130 to 140 degrees, microbes are breaking down organic matter and reproducing at high rates. This temperature is also hot enough to kill most weed seeds and harmful bacteria in the pile. Monitor the temperature regularly, preferably daily. Once the pile starts to cool down below 130 degrees, it's time to turn the pile. Turning the pile aerates it, which will kickstart microbial activity again.


Moisture is also essential. The contents of your compost pile should feel like a sponge that has been wrung out well. Too dry, and microbial activity will be severely diminished. Too wet, and the microbes that thrive in anaerobic conditions will take over -- this often results in bad odors in the pile and an almost complete stoppage of decomposition. If you find that your pile is too dry, give it a watering with the hose, even digging down a bit into the pile to ensure that you're moistening it all the way through. If it's too wet, turn it, adding shredded newspaper or another high-carbon material as you do so to help soak up excess moisture. Cover with a tarp if rain is keeping the pile waterlogged.


I made this mix today minus the potassium sulfate, the store only had muriate potash, which is chloride heavy, and will mess my mix up. I ordered some sulfate, arrives next week and will add it in smalls amounts when I turn the soils. Already smelling great !


Thanks for inputs fellas!
 
V

vonforne

Get the K-Mag natural and not the sulfate of potash. Trust me on this.

V
 
John Deere

John Deere

Active member
Veteran
Where are you getting that info, anfernneybra? Scrappy4's link from CSU right above says 50-90ºF. Thanks.
 
A

anferneybra

Member
Im getting my composting info from a soil science article written by a CSU guy actually. Ill find the online version to cite.

Im sticking with sulfate potassium. Seems to be the best combo for building soils, I can see why maybe Kmag is good too, but my mix already has enough mag in it. Ill just use less potassium sulfate.
 
Scrappy4

Scrappy4

senior member
Veteran
jerry111165 said:
Plus to breakdown the raw materials involved and really make sure the soil is "living" true composting occurs around 130 degrees, and its only for like 6-8 hours a day, then moved back inside to around 100 degrees.

Not true. Heat is not needed for composting. Granted, it may take longer but faster is not always necessarily a good thing.

Does the forest floor hit 130 degrees?

J

Edit - then there's vermicomposting to think about - yet another instance where no heat is involved - hopefully...
Click to expand...

Hot composting is a fact. It is caused by thermophilic microbes,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermophile
and those microbes will heat a pile givin the right conditions. But those microbes are a small part of the whole picture. Nothing to get hung up on. They are not specifically needed, but can speed things up. And compost being that it is living is never really done anyway. It becomes usable or plant friendly but it's still alive. There are always processes going on, generations of microbes and successions of those coming and going. Look at peat for an example. Dead as it seems when the conditions are right it comes to life. And then our worms can add value to an all ready great product.
 
Microbeman

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
From Jim Deacon

http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/archive/jdeacon/microbes/thermo.htm#Top

Microbiology of composts
A compost consists of any readily degradable organic matter that is kept in a heap with sufficient mineral nutrients (e.g. nitrogen) and sufficient aeration to enable rapid microbial growth. The most familiar example is the garden compost heap, but more important examples are the composting plants used to process municipal wastes, and the composts used for commercial mushroom production.

The typical composting process is illustrated in Figure E below. There is an initial phase of rapid microbial growth (a) on the most readily available sugars and amino acids. This phase is initiated by mesophilic organisms, which generate heat by their metabolism and raise the temperature to a point where their own activities are suppressed. Then a few thermophilic fungi (e.g. Rhizomucor pusillus, Figure F) and several thermophilic bacteria (e.g. Bacillus stearothermophilus) continue the process, raising the temperature of the material to 70-80oC within a few days. This peak heating phase (b) has a profound effect on the microbial population, because it destroys or inactivates all the mesophilic organisms (and the initial thermophilic fungi such as Rhizomucor pusillus) and leads to a prolonged high-temperature phase that favours other thermophilic species.


A few thermophilic prokaryotes can continue to grow during peak-heating and persist during the prolonged high-temperature plateau, when the termperature is maintained at between 40-60oC. At this stage, a second group of thermophilic fungi start to grow (c in Fig. E). These fungi include Chaetomium thermophile, Humicola insolens, Humicola (Thermomyces) lanuginosus (Figure G), Thermoascus aurantiacus (Figure H), a Paecilomyces-like fungus (Figure I) and Aspergillus fumigatus (Figure J). By their combined activities, these fungi bring about a major phase of decomposition of plant cell-wall materials such as cellulose and hemicelluloses, so that the dry weight of the compost can be halved during the relatively high temperature phase lasting 20 days or more after peak heating.
Eventually the temperature declines and mesophilic organisms then recolonise the compost and displace the thermophiles (d in Fig. E). However, some heat-tolerant species such as Aspergillus fumigatus can continue to grow. This fungus can grow at temperatures ranging from 12o to about 52-55o. Strictly speaking, it is not a thermophile because its temperature optimum is below 50o, but it is a very common and important member of the high-temperature compost community.

Thermophilic fungi of composts

Rhizomucor pusillus. Typical grey coloured colony on a plate of potato-dextrose agar at 45oC (left-hand image). This fungus produces abundant "fluffy" aerial hyphae and spore-bearing stalks (sporangiophores) which are branched (centre and right images) and have sporangia at the tips of the branches. The delicate sporangial walls break to release numerous spores, leaving only a central bulbous region (the columella, c) and remains of the sporangial wall (arrowhead in right-hand image).

With a temperature range of 20-55oC, this fungus is a typical early coloniser of composts, exploiting simple sugars, amino acids etc. that are present initially in the plant material. It is inactivated during peak-heating, and it does not recolonise afterwards.

etc etc with photos too.
 
J

jerry111165

Scrappy, I've got multiple compost heaps in assorted stages going right now and have for years. I understand all about thermophic conditions. My point was that heat is not required for composting and as far as I'm concerned is only a very small part of the process. Properly made & properly sized compost will heat up for a week or two but over the 2 to 3 years that my heaps have been going the composting didn't stop after the initial thermophylic conditions ceased and the heaps cooled down. The heaps are still composting merrily away and will continue to - without heat.

That's all I was saying.

J
 
C

ClackamasCootz

Expired
Veteran
My point was that heat is not required for composting and as far as I'm concerned is only a very small part of the process

There is that......
 
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