"Burning" seedlings with organic soil

[Toes.]

...Within a week they were rooted and growing as if Gawd had planted them there...

This is why I no longer throw anything in the worm bin that has seeds still on it or too big a chunk of root veggies.

I check my worm bin every so often... not too often after a fresh start, three - four weeks or so.

I've opened the lid on a few occasions to find tomatoes, potatoes cucumbers, carrots, whatever... growing, in complete darkness, green and healthy.

 

[Neo 420]

You mean the way that amending is done in this paradigm?

"Best wishes"

Yes. What would be your suggestion in repects to mineralization? I amended my veggie beds with meals, g dust, etc... And I have a better turn out than last year harvest so far. (used compost from my own bins. ) Forgive me but this is my second year in organics (veggie wise) and my first run with mj so I am still putting the pieces togeter....

 

[jerry111165]

PW, do you use botanical teas at all? I'm thinking they might help with your "running out of N" issue? Even a top dress of alfalfa?

I'm glad it's going better now.

Toes - I've found potato plants reaching for the light in mine *lol*

J

 

[Pointswest]

Jerry, once in veg, I used a 36 hr tea; 1/2c ewc, 1/2 c compost, 2 Tbsp kelp, 2 Tbsp fish hydro. After pre flowering started, another tea of comfrey syrup was applied. This month I was going to use a simple kelp tea and alfalfa tea rotation a couple of times during flower.

I am a little cautious about the botanic teas after I burned some small plants with some dandelion tea. So far I have not had any nutrient deficiencies into this grow and the fan leaves are the size of typing paper, so I guess they are getting what they need for now.

I would seem to me that you could incorporate all of these amendments into the compost pile and not even have to use the teas if the compost is built properly.

PW

 

[Scrappy4]

I would seem to me that you could incorporate all of these amendments into the compost pile and not even have to use the teas if the compost is built properly.

Eg zacto mundo

 

[jerry111165]

My experience with a proper soil which replicates a natural balanced soil with high humic levels will not burn anything....ever.

I have a fairly hot compost pile going. A couple weeks ago I roasted some corn on the BBQ. Somehow a few kernels of corn did not get fully cooked and ended up in the compost pile. Within a week they were rooted and growing as if Gawd had planted them there.

Most of the burning issues IME come from blood meal and/or non-composted green amendments added at high volumes to freshly mixed soils which are then planted in directly or not allowed to continue to establish the fungal and bacterial colonies that breakdown that type of organic matter.

My 2 cents~

Stan, I've definetly found the same thing. My compost pile is loaded with manures, alfalfa, fish meal - items that may be considered "hot" with nitrogen content.

With the presence of microbes and worms in these compost heaps, and the time for them to do thier jobs, my heaps now have healthy young assorted seedlings growing out of them, and so may no longer be considered "hot".

J

 

[SeaMaiden]

I'm considering gathering all the deer shit I'm finding around the property and adding it to my compost pile. I've wanted to do the worm bin thing, but it can't live in my kitchen, and during winter even the garage and basement become far too cold. Juiced worms, could be a good thing, Martha-stylee.

I want to know more about toy mineral amendments.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Funny that - I never mentioned mineralization at all.

I did mention water-soluble forms of Magnesium, factory waste (blood & bone meal) - no mention of minerals from this keyboard

Intellectual honesty wouldn't hurt.......

CC

 

[SeaMaiden]

CC, what are these, and what do you mean?

Jerry

Humus (viable, correctly cured thermal compost and not a bag of crap from Home Depot) with worm castings outperforming anything else - that's what it's about

Dial it in with correct mineralization, aeration (i.e. screw perlite) and bulk (Sphagnum peat moss)

Leave toys like blood meal, bone meal, epsom salts, rock phosphate, blah, blah, blah to the ill-informed

CC

Is rock phosphate not a mineral amendment, or is it a toy mineral amendment? What about MgSO4? Not mineral?

Honest questions looking to understand what it is you're trying to put down here.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

What do you know about Rock Phosphate or even Soft Rock Phosphate? Did you want to discuss the arsenic issues at the CalPhos mine in Florida? Or how about the petition to de-certify that specific mine which is the big one in the USA

Then we can discuss the process of turning Rock Phosphate into Soft Rock Phosphate.

I'd rather not discuss the crap out of Iraq, Iran or China - if China can't keep melamine out of pet food and baby formulas, I don't have much confidence in their mining operations.

And no, MgSO4 is not a mineral. It is a mineral compound. A mineral would be elemental forms found in a mineral compound.

 

[SeaMaiden]

I cannot discuss issues of which I am unaware, so if that's what you're driving at, for me at least, being a little more direct is helpful.

Honestly, I question the wisdom of using ANY mined inputs at all, total carbon footprint, sustainability and all that, when my goal is to minimize *my* total impact. Which is a much bigger picture and question than what we were originally discussing, but if it's relevant, it's relevant.

For example, Eliot Coleman discusses bi-annual inputs of SRP/colloidal rock phosphate in a book written on organic market gardening. He discusses some sources, but not all. Between crap sources (China..? does Chinese always = crap? I don't know) and the issues associated with acquisition of sources, there are many problems to consider. Do I personally want to use something that came all the way from China? Not if I can help it, especially if I can find something occurring naturally that requires less energy and travels less distance, yadda yadda yadda.

Ok, mineral, mineral compound. Gotcha. It's important to be certain we're giving the same definitions to each term, or we misunderstand each other.

 

[Gascanastan]

Stan, I've definetly found the same thing. My compost pile is loaded with manures, alfalfa, fish meal - items that may be considered "hot" with nitrogen content.

With the presence of microbes and worms in these compost heaps, and the time for them to do thier jobs, my heaps now have healthy young assorted seedlings growing out of them, and so may no longer be considered "hot".

J

Indeed...
Having one's own compost eventually leads to building soil utilizing that compost. The key is 'building' soil for an indoor potted plant environment that replicates the natural soil biology outside the front door....of course with the physical properties which best suites 'plants'..
We assemble the components..the natural processes do the rest.

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

I'm considering gathering all the deer shit I'm finding around the property and adding it to my compost pile. I've wanted to do the worm bin thing, but it can't live in my kitchen, and during winter even the garage and basement become far too cold. Juiced worms, could be a good thing, Martha-stylee.

I want to know more about toy mineral amendments.

I live in Montana so I understand the cold weather. If you would like to have a worm bin in a cold basement or garage it's really very simple. You need 2 - 18 gallon rubbermaid containers. Pour 2 or 3 gallons of water into the first one and place an aquarium heater in it. Fit the second rubbermaid inside the first, drill some tiny holes in the lid and your good to go...becareful not to water so much as you have no drainage.

As for the OP, yes I have burned the hell out of seedlings many times by placing them in an organic soil that was too hot. Had I let the mix "cook" longer would it have been OK? I'm not sure. Seems like this is the "root" so to speak, of your question.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Looks good on paper! Having a little trouble visualizing how the rest of the bin system would fit together. Any pix..? Actually, that would deserve its own thread.

 

[MrSterling]

While we're on the topic of EWC and buffering soils, other than the humic acids, do EWC contain much microbial life?

As for the argument about putting seedlings in the same soil, I think cannabis cultivation is akin to prize-winning fair vegetables. We build richer and hotter soils to grow larger yields. The average corn/soy/commercial grain crop doesn't need the ultra-rich soil that we use for cannabis. I'd wager that if you dropped a corn seedling in some of our indoor soils, it too would burn.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

RanchoDeluxe

If you head over to RedWormComposting.com and dig through Bentley's archives you'll have a ton of ideas to keep your worms alive during winter and your initial plan/idea is a popular one.

You can move that process forward a bit by picking-up a water heater blanket which will help.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

(China..? does Chinese always = crap? I don't know) and the issues associated with acquisition of sources, there are many problems to consider.

This issue isn't China - free-market means free-market and they provide what their customers want. China can give you everything in quality from #10 to #1 - it's what you want to pay. And fertilizer companies don't want to pay much at all.

The good stuff goes into livestock feeds.

CC

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

SeaMaiden- It not only looks good on paper it works! One bin has a couple gallons of heated water and the other bin is placed inside till it rests on top of the water. Sounds like CC can point you in the right direction if you want pics. I will admit...this is pretty much just a way to keep them alive...activity slows down quite abit. That being said, if I make their "winter" bin a mix of coir and compost with a couple banana peels and some coffee, it turns into a nice vermicompost by the time spring comes. I'm glad I don't have to mess with it at my new house.

 

[SeaMaiden]

RD, I just realized that I do have a waterbed heating mat that's not being used. I do typically use it under my water storage when I'm growing indoors (can't use 45*F water very well, presents problems), but can probably rig it or something similar to keep a bin warm. Thanks!

 

[hope2toke]

Jerry, all practical claims and qualms aside, your vision for soil health and cannabis is inspiring... and I am glad to go out of my way today and collect the waste materials from my surroundings to build this unorthodox compost. I am sure I will be rolling in amazing results in just a few months. Slow yet steady!