Best Breeding Parents

[Gerardbutler79]

Hello everyone. I'm trying to gather info on cuts and strains that make the best parents for passing down their positive traits. If any of you have any experience breeding please feel free to add your input. What I've gathered so far:

The White - extreme resin coverage in the majority of offspring

Chem 91 - of all the chems, I found this one to create the funkiest, most potent offspring from the House of Funk releases. All were bodhi's snowlotus male crossed to various chems including #4,#3,Giesel and Snowdawg.

Bubba Kush - nice resin coverage, structure, and flavor in majority of offspring

Meao Thai - no experience breeding with it but the reports on its offspring are astounding

Haze - everything Dubi said

Deep Chunk - extreme resin coverage in the majority of offspring

Purple Thai - everything DJ short said

Burmese - shortens flower time on extreme sativas, adds an exotic terpene signature in most offspring

Petrolia Headstash - everything it's pollen touches turns to gold according to Reeferman. The main contributor to the overly potent herijuana.

 

[big twinn]

Any IBL will be good to breed with. Sour bubbles, sd ibl, Indiana original bubblegum is supposed to breed true, deep chunk definitely makes the list.

 

[Gerardbutler79]

I know.. but I'm talkin the best here. The elites!

 

[idiit]

from what i've read haze from an authentic original haze gene pool. i've revamped my crosses for next year to include ace's p hz crosses. some insist that the pollen donor should be the haze. dubi has stated that he doesn't necessarily follow this perspective (use p hz as female recipient?).

Quote:
dubi " Good Haze crosses are many times more potent than pure haze lines." " remember pure haze potency can not be compared with haze hybrids potency" "Many seedbanks are afraid to distribute their IBL/true breeding lines. A highly worked inbred line has an incalculable value for the breeders." "When smoking haze you can easily experience 'racy' and mentally disorienting feelings, you can get the overpowering effect by crossing haze correctly with other sativas. " " Purple haze is highly related to highland purple columbian sativa. I found original tropical columbian gold to produce a very clear/accelerated menthal experience, purple haze is usually a little bit more physical and disorienting." " Oldtimer's Haze is completly hermie free, rare in a tropical line." "She's an extreme tropical line, quite inbred. She's quite powerful in pure form, especially if you find correct parental plants. Effect as described before is energetic, introspective and psychedelic.

Her true potential appears when outcrossing concrete haze parental plants with other different inbred lines. Potency, vigour and yield increase a lot thanks to hybrid vigour. And flowering times and indoor adaptability can be improve easily. "
Quote:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=59801&page=21
^thread where dubi's quotes taken from.

the problem with using a haze male in many real haze strains is that the special haze phenotypes are quite rare and thereby make finding a great haze male stud very difficult. the p hz line from ace is said to be a worked haze line to enable most to all of the progeny (seeds) to be suitable for breeding purposes.

any seedbanks are afraid to distribute their IBL/true breeding lines. A highly worked inbred line has an incalculable value for the breeders

unless i read the p hz strain guide wrong most of the p hz seeds will be female but i got no problem with cs reversing a best phaze female and making her my pollen donator or even using a female phz as the pollen recipient from another strain for hybrids. if i screw up i can always redo my attempts including going back to ace for seeds stock from a true world class sativa breeder for seed sources.

for the mere mortal pollen chuckers like myself the idea of getting pure meao thai or gerrit's zamal cut are wet dreams at best. my homemade f1's of golden tiger are revealing some easy to find phenos; fast malawi and a weeping willow meao thai pheno this year. i've got clones of both ( one already rooted, one rooting). i intend to self both in case i have to shut down the small indoor clone garden (has happened several times in the past). selfed seeds can have phenotype diversity if the parent source is not extremely homogenous. hey! it's better than totally losing the clone only resource for long term storage purposes imo.

per "the white", i have a "the white" - '98 aloha ww " cross that looks, tastes, affects highwise just like nmk grow/smoke reports. i used it in some hybrids and got increased resin production and good bud structure crossed into a couple of landraces. i'm going to try the purple pheno of bubba kush sold as purple peyote by cbg for next years replacement for my "the white" like crosses and see how the resin and bud structure translate into landrace sativa crosses.

gerrit's zamal cut is getting very good reviews as a parent strain ( skunk-zamal, meao thai - zamal, real haze-zamal).

reeferman stated that the original romulan strain got it's potency and duration of high from smcg.some smcg strains have a great incense quality to them that translates into progeny nicely. bsc reportedly had a great smcg line. i'm now working with a little of reeferman's smcg line and will post updates.

punta rosa (columbian red point) -red haired mex (pr-mx) was called accidental haze by reeferman and the 4 smoke reports i found on the internet were all excellent. kaiki used a punta rosa-mex in his destroyer polysativa hybrid ( pr-mex x meao thai) as well and destroyer is said to have an original haze like high and has gotten lots of accolades.

 

[CalcioErba2004]

Depends on what positive traits you are trying to pass on...

Pre98 Bubba breeds true and almost always shows dominance in bud structure...

The Destroyer we worked with almost always passed its smell on to offspring...

Haze genetics are very broad...very very broad and not stable at all. Lots of work still left to do in those lines...

 

[Gerardbutler79]

from what i've read haze from an authentic original haze gene pool. i've revamped my crosses for next year to include ace's p hz crosses. some insist that the pollen donor should be the haze. dubi has stated that he doesn't necessarily follow this perspective (use p hz as female recipient?).

the problem with using a haze male in many real haze strains is that the special haze phenotypes are quite rare and thereby make finding a great haze male stud very difficult. the p hz line from ace is said to be a worked haze line to enable most to all of the progeny (seeds) to be suitable for breeding purposes. unless i read the p hz strain guide wrong most of the p hz seeds will be female but i got no problem with cs reversing a best phaze female and making her my pollen donator or even using a female phz as the pollen recipient from another strain for hybrids. if i screw up i can always redo my attempts including going back to ace for seeds stock from a true world class sativa breeder for seed sources.

for the mere mortal pollen chuckers like myself the idea of getting pure meao thai or gerrit's zamal cut are wet dreams at best. my homemade f1's of golden tiger are revealing some easy to find phenos; fast malawi and a weeping willow meao thai pheno this year. i've got clones of both ( one already rooted, one rooting). i intend to self both in case i have to shut down the small indoor clone garden (has happened several times in the past). selfed seeds can have phenotype diversity if the parent source is not extremely homogenous. hey! it's better than totally losing the clone only resource for long term storage purposes imo.

per "the white", i have a "the white" - '98 aloha ww " cross that looks, tastes, affects highwise just like nmk grow/smoke reports. i used it in some hybrids and got increased resin production and good bud structure crossed into a couple of landraces. i'm going to try the purple pheno of bubba kush sold as purple peyote by cbg for next years replacement for my "the white" like crosses and see how the resin and bud structure translate into landrace sativa crosses.

gerrit's zamal cut is getting very good reviews as a parent strain ( skunk-zamal, meao thai - zamal, real haze-zamal).

reeferman stated that the original romulan strain got it's potency and duration of high from smcg.some smcg strains have a great incense quality to them that translates into progeny nicely. bsc reportedly had a great smcg line. i'm now working with a little of reeferman's smcg line and will post updates.

punta rosa (columbian red point) -red haired mex (pr-mx) was called accidental haze by reeferman and the 4 smoke reports i found on the internet were all excellent. kaiki used a punta rosa-mex in his destroyer polysativa hybrid ( pr-mex x meao thai) as well and destroyer is said to have an original haze like high and has gotten lots of accolades.

Interesting what Dubi says about the haze

 

[Gerardbutler79]

Depends on what positive traits you are trying to pass on...

Pre98 Bubba breeds true and almost always shows dominance in bud structure...

The Destroyer we worked with almost always passed its smell on to offspring...

Haze genetics are very broad...very very broad and not stable at all. Lots of work still left to do in those lines...

An extreme trait would be the ones to pass on. Extreme aroma like the UK Cheese for example

 

[swayzak]

Gerard, i like your ambition, but i would suggest a more focused approach. What qualities are you looking for? If i try to answer that question, my criteria are for the perfect Sativa (my main muse for past few years)

Growing:
Sativa Dominant
regular seeds preferred
No hermies
Stress tolerant
No skunk smells or anything foul, prefer sweet & floral
10-20 weeks flowering, because i believe really interesting highs take time to develop
Good to great production

Smoking:
Low lung expansion / no coughing fits
Sweet & tasty
Medium to high potency - more is better, but quality of high trumps potency
Clear high / no confusion
No or little body
No anxiety / paranoia
Happy buzz
Low tolerance build-up

So with that list a LOT of potential breeding parents are excluded. My starting point is Punta Rosa from cannabiogen, because it ticks off a LOT of my boxes. Actually my starting point was finding breeders / growers that valued similiar criteria, and that's how i came to Cannabiogen. It's like with music, finding people that share your tastes is a great way to discover new things and separate the signal from the noise.

I think it was in The Pablos World on a string thread he was waxing lyrically of having the privilege of creating his perfect strain, and i agree. So follow your dream, have fun, and let us know what works and what doesn't.

 

[Infinitesimal]

hello Gerard B,
Its good to see so many catching the breed bug...

sorry if i seem to talk simple, I don't know exactly how much you know and this is for everyone looking for this type of info... these boards are read by many a google searchers!

CalcioErba 2004: thanks helpful strain info...


either do tons of breeding experiments and note taking to find males and females that are homozygous for these " extreme" traits your referring to, so that they will for sure be passed on t their offspring, or settle for strains that are already know for that; like those varieties that a few individuals have already pointed out.

anything else and you are just pollen chucking and your results will vary wildly, if they are even ever attained. And if you do find the plant with the combo of traits you were looking, if you don't understand allele pairing, recessive vs dominant, trait heredity and on and on and on... then it would have been mostly out of luck.

but the answer to your question is not feasible... for each parent is going to pass on traits it possess and may or may not even express, and each variety possesses different traits and sometimes those traits are heterozygous (Ss) homozygous dominant (SS) and homozygous recessive (ss)

so for you to know at all what traits the seed are going to possess and at what frequency (the ratio of finding the plant you want or even a good plant), you really need to do this type of work and also research into what cutting/strains breed true for the traits you specifically want and remember some of them are trade offs you can't have all the best traits with a 35 day flowering and 2LB per plant yield.

to get better help, give us a more specific outline of what traits you want a male plant to add to any female. keep it to 4-5 traits and you must be very specific.

like:
1) a certain smell
2) a certain taste
3) high trichome production
4) high resin production ( trichome and resin production are two different traits)
5) a certain high TYPE (different than potency)

for example if you wanted these traits then you would have to search through many seeds for a potent plant because while they all have a certain high type some will be less potent than others.

I would first recommend reading a couple of good breeding books.

o'course MJ Botany by RC Clarke

cannabis breeders bible by Greg Green

cultivating exceptional cannabis by DJ Short also has a lot of good breeding advise especially if you can read between the lines

Peace,
Infi

 

[slim blue]

SK#1 x NL#5

 

[Gerardbutler79]

Not looking for any specific trait. Just compiling a database I could make use of with strains/cuts that pass on the extreme traits they're known for. For example Green Crack is famous for its swift bloom time, but does it pass that trait down in the majority of it's progeny? If it does, than that's great n would certainly add it to the list. As far as my own own personal preferences, well thats a differen't story. My type of herb tends to be the relaxing, happy type, like DJ shorts Flo. Its smell, I love a good stinker, like the exodus cheese. The higher the aroma intensity the better. Though it has to be a pleasant scent, not like ChemD, or anything else with a rotten smell. As for taste, just like food it's gotta be good. Not a fan of the hashy/earthy taste I commonly encounter. Btw infinitesimal, I've got all the books you mentioned, n I agree they're all very informative in their own way.

 

[Infinitesimal]

Not looking for any specific trait. Just compiling a database I could make use of with strains/cuts that pass on the extreme traits they're known for. For example Green Crack is famous for its swift bloom time, but does it pass that trait down in the majority of it's progeny? If it does, than that's great n would certainly add it to the list..

If fast flowering is Dominant
the green crack is either:
Homozygous Dominant for that trait (FF) which means it doesnt matter what male is used all offspring will express fast flowering; but not all offspring will pass on fast flowering to their progeny.

Heterozygous for that trait (Ff) then regardless of the male half the females will flower fast... if a heterozygous male (Ff) is used more will be fast flowering and if a true breeding homozygous Dominant male (FF) is used then all the offspring will be fast flowering.

if fast flowering is recessive
then Green Crack can only be

Homozygous Recessive (ff) and if the male used to outcross is homozygous dominant (FF) none of the offspring will express fast flowering but they will all be heterozygous (Ff) and will pass the trait on to the next generation which will express fast flowering at 25% in the F2 Generation.

*If the male used to outcross is heterozygous for fast flowering (Ff) then half of the F1 offspring will express fast flowering

*And if the male used is Homozygous Recessive (ff) then all the offspring will express and breed true for the fast flowering trait

as you can see it matters just as much if not more about the male used... and not just a certain strain but with a particular tested individual that the dominant and recessive alleles have been mapped out through test crossing to know if it is homo dom, hetero, or homo recessive

so its very much dependent on the male female combination much more than the female alone... and you can't just go by the result of other breeder's work, cause each female's progeny will be different for the same traits depending on which male is used.

finally no one can tell you (other than with known female cuttings) if any given individual will be homozygous dominant, heterozygous, or homozygous recessive for any given trait... though some IBL and thoroughly worked strains can have high ratios of true breeding individuals.

I hope this helps, good luck!

Peace,
Infi

 

[TGT]

C99 from what I have seen breeds well with others. Not speaking from experience, but what I have read from several sources. Anyone have exp. breeding with this strain?

TGT

 

[Gerardbutler79]

finally no one can tell you (other than with known female cuttings) if any given individual will be homozygous dominant, heterozygous, or homozygous recessive for any given trait... though some IBL and thoroughly worked strains can have high ratios of true breeding individuals.

I hope this helps, good luck!

Peace,
Infi

Thanks for the break down. When spoken in these direct terms what I'm looking for are homozygous dominant traits from known cuttings and IBLs.

 

[supermanlives]

i played with c99. trying to sprout the last of my seeds from crosses. one was labeled bb x c99. so its eithe blueberry or big bud mom and c99 dad. i made several crosses with males and i thought c99 females but i cant find the seeds and its been a long time

 

[Infinitesimal]

Thanks for the break down. When spoken in these direct terms what I'm looking for are homozygous dominant traits from known cuttings and IBLs.

for sure,
thats awesome when your desired trait is homozygous dominant, but...

the only problem with that is... while one trait that you like about a particular plant maybe homozygous dominant; it maybe homozygous recessive or even worse heterozygous for the other traits you want to pass on, and in which case the male must share these gene's with the female in order for those other desirable traits to express themselves in your seeds you make... plus...

Im not sure but I think that most of the elite and desirable cuttings possess homozygous recessive traits... as they are usually the extreme minority out of their germ line and are considered special for their rare genetic pairing IE "extreme traits".

If the best traits were dominant one wouldn't really need to do any breeding, just simply add pollen to your homozygous dominant flowers and the trait will always be passed on and expressed... but we know that is just not how it works

 

[idiit]

nevil, dr.purpur, kangativa and friends are trying to find the breeding parents for their "new grail" quest. here is a quote from dp:

Im having troubles uploading pictures tonight. Nevil has me assigned to run some seeds he is real excited about. He hooked me up with a few crosses.
NH23 x Kariba
NH35 x Oaxacan 04
NH21 x Mullimbimby Madness (S)
They are doing good.
He thinks one of them will be the Grail. Im looking forward to this run.

DP

PS Good Growing to you all!

this was taken from a great thread run by chaco: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=211846&do=filter&fid=116544.

here's another great thread with a lot of comments from sam the skunkman on nhz: question for sam the skunkman on the original haze
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=82182


kariba, a grail ox,mm, are mentioned by dp as the nevil group's choices for those interested in their opinion.

zamalito really liked some elite mex strains. he stated that many mex's have the capacity to acclimate and that capacity to acclimate to many varied growing condition is passed on into the progeny in many hybrids. i was suprised to learn that zamalito found many elite mex's to be amoung the most potent landraces he had experienced and the highs were often very uplifting, electric in nature.

 

[Infinitesimal]

that Oaxacan cross sounds cool!

good luck with those

 

[idiit]

that Oaxacan cross sounds cool!

^yeah, but try getting a pure; grail ox, punta rosa, sandlewood smcg, meao thai, gerrit's zamal cut, red haired electric mex, mullumimby madness et all.

this is why i'm interested in the phz and purple peyote; they are homogenous stabilized strains (don't have to do the 1/100... grail hunt) and possibly offer excellent breeding potential that are currently available for purchase.

 

[Infinitesimal]

^yeah, but try getting a pure; grail ox, punta rosa, sandlewood smcg, meao thai, gerrit's zamal cut, red haired electric mex, mullumimby madness et all.

this is why i'm interested in the phz and purple peyote; they are homogenous stabilized strains (don't have to do the 1/100... grail hunt) and possibly offer excellent breeding potential that are currently available for purchase.

ACE & CBG strains rock!

and I'd love to find those, pure, but yeah right... I don't have those connects LOL