NOT "Safe to spray up till day of Harvest."!!

[Hydro-Soil]

Here's the scoop so far...

Azamax and Azatrol are organic neem extract products and they're used extensively in growing cannabis... I use them myself, have for a few years now. This problem is probably not limited to azamax and azatrol.

They are NOT safe to spray "Up till the day of harvest." They're NOT safe to spray even 2 weeks into flower.

They are NOT safe to use systemically when the harvest date is less than 50 days away.

Cannabis is NOT one of the plants that Azamax and Azatrol are 'labled' for.


Over the past several years now, certain sources of cannabis have caused me gut and back pain. It isn't until years later that I've finally been able to piece things together and get a grip on what's going on.

After research online, several threads and personal testing... it turns out that Azamax and/or Azatrol are responsible.

As a medicinal grower, I have pushed the "clean harvest" philosophy and don't normally spray anything in my gardens during flower... maybe plain water a couple times for pollen control but usually nothing, ever. I use azamax or azatrol at 3-5ml/gallon in the root zone systemically.

Just recently, a local perpetual grow I consult on had a minor mite outbreak. The plants were treated systemically and sprayed.

A - Plants at 2 weeks in were sprayed and treated systemically. 5ml/gal Azamax + wetter + iso (No iso or wetter in the systemic portion).

B - Plants at day 45 of a 75 day strain were treated systemically with 5ml/gal Azamax

C - One plant at day 45 accidentally recieved a TINY... almost non-existent, vapor-like overspray. No, really. I almost didn't see it.

Plants A tasted like oil and Azamax. Brought on pain after a few bowls.

Plant group B Tasted faintly of azamax and took several hours of medicating to finally cause pain.

The plant from Group C was the most disgusting of the three (at least the buds that got direct spray) and caused pain with only a toke or two... even though clean meds had been used for a few days.

So... If you're supplying meds to people... please only use systemically at the time you throw your girls into flower, your meds might end up on my table.

No more pain, no more cramping, no more dirty meds. Can't wait till this information seeps out into the general grower population and I can go back to sampling other's wares.

Stay Safe!

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I can't imagine how many people are using Rx pills for pain this causes. I know of at least 2 times in my life that I've done that now, without knowing it was being caused by...

"Organic" pesticides being sprayed on flowering cannabis. *sigh*

Anyway... this really is good news. LOL

Stay Safe!

 

[SeaMaiden]

First, let me thank you for posting this. I feel it is of utmost importance that ALL growers pay closer attention to what they're putting in and on their plants, why, and what the possible effects may be.

Second, I want to point out that Azamax and Azatrol are organic, but that doesn't automatically mean it's safe for everyone. Peanuts, for example, can be perfectly organic, but may cause real problems and even death for some folks. My mother cannot even smell shellfish cooking or she goes into anaphylactic shock. We can't even consider whether or not the shellfish is organic, it's likely wild caught.

Also another point. There is NO product specifically labeled for use on cannabis. Just as there are no pesticides specifically labeled for quinoa.

I'll suggest that instead of using the allelopathic approach, you and the grows you consult for strive for optimum plant health over palliative treatments. It's how I handled my fish and inverts and in that arena there truly was no substitute for optimum water quality and food. Animals reared in those conditions were well able to fight off parasites and disease.

I feel fortunate at this point that my cheapness has allowed me to avoid almost entirely using my bottle of Azatrol. I bought it three or four years ago and it sits unopened.

 

[DoobieDuck]

Hydro thanks for posting, I agree with you. It's hard to know what to believe on the Internet with quotes like these:
"Azamax kicks ass. It kills everything and is safe up until the day of harvest. I'd rinse it off if I was spraying close to harvest, but it can still be applied safely late into the process"

"A word of caution, i stuck my hand/arm in a bucket of Azatrol mix and later that day i got bumps on my hands like "chicken pocks" and they felt like em too.. They disappeared after 12-24 hours or so... Not fun. Azamax/Azatrol definitely caused a reaction, so wear gloves with that stuff. I've also had a few nice inhales of the vapors from it, and it makes the tip of your tounge tingle and feel kinda numb. So take it from someone who's exposed themselves to it, wear gloves and a mask to be safe, it is organic, but not healthy for humans. "

...then I'm reading your post Hydro. Those above snippets (quotes) came from this 2010 thread: AZAMAX insecticide... ANYONE EVER USED IT???

Hydro your piece is quite convincing with your personal experience, trial, and knowing you as an advanced grower.. I think we're all thinking, as you and SeaMaiden pointed out, safety first nowadays.
SeaMainden you made some good points. Most of us that help out a legit collective or other retail type outlet with product have no clue who will be consuming our Meds after they leave our grow. Most outlets are now mandating the Meds be tested before they will pass them on to their patients. Still, it is a good idea we help in the process keeping them safe. Peace..DD

 

[supermanlives]

we smoke our crop . its not a veggie.

 

[iampolluted]

people eat cannabis, so technically it can be a veggie .

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Thanks so much,

You don't know how much it means to me to get responses like this. It's important and it was also difficult to pinpoint.

Funny, I almost didn't allow the azamax to be used at that stage... I've never done it myself and am totally against it. I doubt I would have made the connection if it hadn't happened.


Amazing...

Thanks again.

Stay Safe!

 

[cyat]

i cant stand neem.. i hate gettin it on my skin, so I hate using it... and i cant stand the smell...

a much cleaner and more effective cure for mites and thrips is spinosad

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Personally I'll still use Azamax and Azatrol. Just keep it the way I've always used it.

Spray only during veg.

Systemically only up till 60 days from harvest.

NEVER spray anything on your flowering girls please. It's a hassle to get a routine up that works but it's worth it. There are many other non-cannabis tastes on the meds around here and it's truly disgusting. These just happened to also have physical issues related to them.

Stay Safe!

 

[Green Supreme]

As these are neem extracts, I would wonder if pure neem would have the same issues. Peace GS

 

[Desert Dan]

As these are neem extracts, I would wonder if pure neem would have the same issues. Peace GS

If sprayed late flower I would imagine it would taste of neem...

DD

 

[Hydro-Soil]

If sprayed late flower I would imagine it would taste of neem...

DD

It actually tastes worse than the extracts. I don't know if would affect me the same way with my back and gut though. I only know for sure about Azamax and the Azatrol is assumed. The Neem concentrates taste similar. The neem tastes like neem.

They're all disgusting and oily.

Stay Safe!

 

[usda101]

Hydro you just saved my ass . Im dealing with a few mites at about 20 days in bloom an was considering using azamax foiliar because i have some on hand .

 

[Mtn Dew]

great post

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Hydro you just saved my ass . Im dealing with a few mites at about 20 days in bloom an was considering using azamax foiliar because i have some on hand .

Glad to hear it.

If your strains will run 75-80 days... I'd say use it systemically in the res or root zone. Straight hydro I wouldn't go over 3ml/gal... soilless to soil I'd run up to 5ml/gal.

If they're 60-70 day strains, you'll be pushing it systemically. I think 55 days is the minimum I would recommend as I could still get a faint taste.

Stay Safe!

 

[DoobieDuck]

Personally I'll still use Azamax and Spray only during veg.....NEVER spray anything on your flowering girls please. It's a hassle to get a routine up that works but it's worth it.

Hydro it comes down to just ^ ^ that. I think most Peeps aren't very concerned until they have an outbreak. I start before planting by spraying the entire square footage of soil in my greenhouse grow, I even do the plastic on the sides somewhat. Then again plants n soil both very early in veg, sometimes again just as I see preflowers. After that depending on if the flowers are forming and how far along but never if much more than just a pre-flower or two, which is probably over 70 days out or more. Prevention will do wonders and keep your flowers safe. Godd work Hydro..DD

 

[iampolluted]

i've used neem in veg and could still taste it in the finished buds. it wasn't real strong but it tasted like it smells, and it's not appealing. tried a foliar spray with neem too, and it ended up burning my plants a bit. i think that might have been my fault for not rinsing it off a bit sooner.

i use spinosad if anything creeps up, and it's probably the only thing i'll use other than the DE i use in my soil mix. i've only had to use the spinosad once on some thrips about 9 months ago. they came along for the ride on a couple plants i finished for a friend who got evicted. they were eating up my entire room, so i let everything finish up in flower, re-treated my soil mix with DE, and sprayed everything in veg. let em sit in veg for 2 more weeks then flowered am out. haven't had a bug since (knock on wood), never really had any bugs before i fostered those 2 plants....other than maybe a springtail. i usually change my clothes or just go in there in my boxers so there's usually little chance for anything to enter the room to begin with. outdoor plants are a who different ball game though.

 

[DoobieDuck]

I should mention, I spray my colas almost up to harvest a couple times a day with water directly out of my hose. I have a high pressure nozzle and with high pressure fine spray hit the tops from all sides almost every morning. I don't know if it is the moisture mites don't like or I actually am spraying them of the buds and undersides of the leaves but it has helped for me. Does not completely eliminated them. I'm sure it helps wash the plant clean after spraying neem or anything else, I usually wait a couple days after spraying with anything else to hit them with the water.

Hi-humidity areas and cold temps..don't spray H2O as I suggest late in flowering or you'll find some bud rot develop. Cheers..DD

 

[SeaMaiden]

Doobie, I would say that, based on my own previous experience, mites definitely don't like a moist or humid environment. I believe the science backs that up, too.

I would like to point out, or perhaps question, that there is also Neem meal that can be used over the soil or mixed into it. I have NO idea how it might affect someone, like I said I've not been using my bottle of Azatrol (or was it Azamax? I can't remember!). But my beans always take a huge hit every year and I was about to give up entirely on green or dry beans until I thought, "Hey... what if I put somma dis here Neem meal around the bases of the stems?"

It has worked like a CHARM. (If my camera had battery power I'd take a pic of the beans lining our walkway.)

 

[DoobieDuck]

SeaMaiden I bet your beans are delicious. Yes science does back it up mites do not like moisture. They prefer a dry enviroment. Most indoor growers rarely mist thier grows, have dry grow rooms, thus have more problems with mites. I've had much worse infestations indoors than out. I read it somewhere on the web. I believe also the spraying stengthens the stalks as I soak them, they bend considerably, and then work hard to get back in place. Happy growing...DD