Lucas, Wer art thou

[Cat Jockey]

I Am having stupid issues with the Lucas Formula.

&

Something about Lucas is not right...

I agree. The Lucas Formula is not an optimal nutrient mix. I know this goes against what others are saying in this thread, but different strokes for different folks, I suppose. Dump the Lucas Formula. Stop using it. That is the first thing I would suggest doing. Pick up a bottle of GH Grow and use the recommended 3-2-1 for veg. But, cut it in half as you are using DWC. RDWC, right?

I have been reading the praises of the Lucas Formula for years. I have used it, too. Quite simply, if you are maximizing your garden environment (lighting/temp/humidity/CO2/ventilation), Lucas doesn't cut it. On top of that, there are some very good additives and other goodies on the market that Lucas folks don't get to take advantage of often.

On top of that, it was designed to meet ppm recommendations, not plant needs for expressing maximum genetic potential.

Keep in mind that one of the things Lucas was proud of was how little money one had to spend on nutes. Also, he considered additives to be snake oil. This is bare bones hydro farming, what Lucas preaches. Spend as little as possible, deny the benefits of many additives, never change out your res, etc.

If that's your style, well, that's your style. Ain't my style thougth.

The thing is, because of how valuable our crop is, spending more money on the right nutes and additives can pay off at harvest time. Both in quantity & quality.

Lucas got the 'formula' from a cat named pH. pH had a pretty sweet spread sheet up for calculating ppms - seems to be gone now? That is what the Lucas Formula is based around. Some cat named pH, his spreadsheet, his reading about weed farming and the recommendations of a book written a while ago, sprinkled in with some stoner chat on da net.

Who says pH was right? Right with how many ppms were needed at what stage? For all of Sweet Lady Janedom?

Anyway, dump the Lucas Formula and just use GH 3 part at the recommended ratios, but cut the dosage in half for your RDWC system with your plants. Anything above 68 degrees F, and you are flirting with root rot. Pick up some Dutch Master's Zone and run it at the recommend strength. It helps keep your system clean and the root rot back and provides great root growth (much cheaper than Roots Excel). Cover the tops and sides of your buckets with panda plastic as well, to keep down the temp of your reservoir.

That's another problem with Lucas - never changing out a res until after harvest. Way too easy to turn into a rancher. You can easily become both a farmer of weed and a rancher of bacteria, fungi, algae, etc. And that can play havoc on your pH and make it very unstable.

Changing a res is work, but it pays off in the end and it should be fun - you are playing in your garden. It should be done at least bi-weekly. I have always done mine weekly. And that has been even while running several hundred gallons between several reservoirs at a time.

Lucas will give you issues on some strains. This is in addition to Lucas not being able to keep up with a different nute mix in the same growing environment. In any environment, Lucas will create nute deficiencies (Mg & Cal) being the two big ones.

As far as RDWC, if you aren't kickin' a bunch of vertical thowies maybe some CO2 and A/C, your efforts are best served in other hydro systems. Like Ebb & Flow. Why are you considering the switch to NFT? NFT is more work, more susceptible to root disease, can utilize light footprint less effciently, etc. Maybe you have NFT experience? Ebb & Flow is pretty easy, pretty forgiving, pretty adaptable, pretty convenient, pretty easy to clean, pretty resistant to root disease and pretty PRODUCTIVE.

Not trying to get into a huge argument, just my opinion and thoughts about Lucas, NFT, RDWC and Ebb & Flow. Just trying to steer you, the OP, and any other farmers considering Lucas and hydro in the right direction. I have run up to 24 different strains as mother plants in a RDWC system on a single res at one time and have grown probably 60 different strains in dirt and hydro, so I have seen the Lucas Formula and other nute regiments on more strains than most people.

Ya'll can use Lucas, if ya want, but I'm growin' da digity dank over here, so I'll broaden my horizons and juice them ladies up proper like.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

In any environment, Lucas will create nute deficiencies (Mg & Cal) being the two big ones.

This pretty much tells me you're not using it properly... Common problem that causes all the issues you've described.

Nothing against a good and properly used additive, when appropriate. Lucas is a beautifully simple place to start with any strain, when you want to dail things in properly.

Your ideas of where the information for Lucas originated is partially correct but also incomplete.

Anyone interested in the real scoop, you can read about all of Cat Jockey's issues from Lucas' own posts back in 2006. Here's the link.

The Lucas formula is not simply a proper mix of nutes you drop in the water. There are some simple management practices that can change slightly with different grow setups.

If you do not use it appropriately, it will burn or disappoint you. Just like anything else.

Stay Safe!

p.s. I know I'm the worst for forgetting to hit the diplomacy button... but the next time you pop into a thread covering a specific grow style you don't like, try to be polite and pm that garbage directly to the person. I don't appreciate you cluttering up this thread with all the complaints I've been helping people get past for years. Yes, you're typical. *shrug* Thanks again.

 

[Cat Jockey]

I see you took that personally H-S. I didn't direct it at anyone nor was my intention to do so. But, now that I see your sig, I see that you are both personally invested in the Lucas Formula to a large degree as well as your own guru status. Looks like you are trying to collect testimonials to help market a weed growing ebook or something like that with that link. Are you?

p.s. I know I'm the worst for forgetting to hit the diplomacy button... but the next time you pop into a thread covering a specific grow style you don't like, try to be polite and pm that garbage directly to the person. I don't appreciate you cluttering up this thread with all the complaints I've been helping people get past for years. Yes, you're typical. *shrug* Thanks again.

My screen doesn't have a diplomacy button. It has a blunt and direct button. The OP expressed doubts about the LF. I commented on those doubts with my own opinion of the LF. The OP is also asking some general help questions and is getting some bad advice, in general. Like everyone telling him to run full strength nutes in a RDWC system.

Don't do that with plants in that state under only 400 Watts. That's bad advice. Try half that, and maybe only 1/3 that in this particular case.

I'm just a fuggin' stoner in Colorado trying to help another fuggin' stoner across the pond in Europe out. And anyone who might be lurking this thread. Don't get yer panties in a wad about it H-S. Why is the discussion of a minor switch in nute regime by buying a bottle of Grow instead of Epsom salts and ditching LF taboo?

They are not complaints I am mentioning - they are my observations and experiences, which differ from yours. In many ways I am sure. I would venture a guess that you have been using Lucas Formula for a while.

I haven't limited myself to one nute regiment. I have experimented with quite a few different ones. I am not cluttering up a thread. I am sharing my experiences to help out another Sweet Lady Jane farmer, not self promote myself as a guru to the newbies.

And my posts aren't garbage. They are the result of many years of discussing this stuff on the net and many years of doing said stuff.

Doing things like running a grow that had a 10,000 Watt Mother room with 40+ different strains at one time, using Ebb & Flow, NFT, RDWC & dirt as well as using every cloning method known to stoners and dealing with clone numbers that were scary - if the feds came in, the mandatory minimum sentencing rules would have landed me in jail for a long, long time.

But what the hell do I know?

This pretty much tells me you're not using it properly... Common problem that causes all the issues you've described.

That is not anything you know - how I used it. Rest assured I have used it 'properly'. I know wtf I am doing with hydro. And dirt. And Sweet Lady Jane.

Anyone interested in the real scoop, you can read about all of Cat Jockey's issues from Lucas' own posts back in 2006. Here's the link.

Huh? I don't have any issues in that thread. What are you talking about? Lucas ain't talkin' to me.

Nothing against a good and properly used additive, when appropriate.

Lucas Formula needs more than additives. It needs supplements. You have to add things like Epsom salt because the Lucas Formula is lacking. That's one of the funny things I don't understand about Lucas Disciples. As soon as they realize that LF doesn't perform as well as the three part, using all three parts, they start looking for ways to solve problems caused by deficiencies in the Lucas Formula using things like epsom salt.

Instead of the simple solution. Changing their base nutrient mix. Buying a bottle of GH Grow instead of a bag of Epsom salts. The Lucas Formula does not include additives. Lucas himself called them snake oil. You start adding supplements and additives, it ain't the Lucas Formula no mo'. The Lucas Formula is based upon the supposition that micro/bloom at 8/16 is everything and all marijuana needs to grow to maximum potential.

Modify it, add additives, add bloom boosters, etc., it is no longer the Lucas Formula, by his definition too. Add all of that stuff and you have a nute regime that has a less than optimal platform to start with for your N-P-K and micros. And is not the Lucas Formula. You have gone so far away form what it is and what it is claimed to be that to cling to the micro/bloom only thing is silly and doesn't work as effectively as all three parts.

Remember - the Lucas Formula is bare bones hydro farming.

Spending as little money on and using as little nutrients from the bottle as possible through the course of a crop.

Lucas is a beautifully simple place to start with any strain, when you want to dail things in properly.

A simpler place is with GH's 3 part recipe using all three parts. No hours of reading on da net about some cat named Lucas and his 'formula'. Just look on the bottle - 3/2/1 for veg, etc. Put your pH adjusters back on the shelf too. Running GH 3 part at recommended ratios and strengths will give you a great starting pH of 5.1-5.2, which is perfect. You can run the res for a week or two, topping off with just water if you want simple, and watch the pH rise gradually to around 6.0-6.2 and then you change it.

I avoid putting pH adjusters in my res at all costs and only in an emergency. Especially using down and up on the same res (e.g. adding down one day and up the next day). It jacks up the balance and precipitates out nutes and it ain't the best stuff for roots. I have added additives to a fresh 5.1 res and had it drop to 4.8 and let it run from there instead of putting pH up in it - a day or two below 5.0 would not screw the plants up whereas the pH Up will jack the res up a bit and make the pH more prone to future swings.

RO water should be considered not optional. Relatively cheap and has a significant increase on optimizing your nutrient solution and better/more weed on harvest.

Growing forums have always been too high on the general consensus for proper pH levels, except for a few voices. It starts at about 5.1 for the sweet spot and taps out around 6.1.

There are a few reasons for this, one of the being that damn blue pH chart floating around that St0ney from the old HC boards made. It ain't accurate and it got spread all over the weed forums.

The best thing Verdure can do is buy a bottle of grow, a root zone conditioner if he wants to get fancy, use all 3 parts in the 3-2-1 ratio, but cut the dosage in half for RDWC, maybe a little more considering the 400W, and roll with it. Don't throw a different res at them every other day by adding epsom and changing ppms, by adjusting the pH several .x's up or down in big swings, make sure temp/humidity are proper and wait for a week or two for them to take off with sweet, new green growth.

And if Verdure is not a fan of RDWC after this grow and is only running 400 Watts, he should consider a move to Ebb & Flow, not NFT.

Just trying to be helpful, not attack you personally H-S, or bring garbage into a thread. Garbage. Makes me laugh a bit considering how many different strains and plants I have had my hands on. Your whole response to me was kinda arrogant. Of course, I'm not engaged in self-promoting myself as guru to the newbies, like you are. So I shouldn't be surprised. I am just a knucklehead sharing my knowledge and experience with other farmers trying to help them out, not my ego.

Get yer panties out of a wad H-S. Don't take my posts or points I raise against the Lucas Formula and how I don't think it Verdure's best option as a personal attack on you. It ain't.

Use Lucas. I don't care. You can grow good weed with Lucas - with most strains. My goal is to grow da digity dank with every strain though. And that is a step above 'good'. Getting the fullest genetic expression possible in your growing environment. You can't harvest the full genetic expression of the plant, including potency, aroma, yield, etc., with Lucas. It is too limiting by nature and there are more appropriate ways to supply N-P-K and micros.

And that is because it is a bare bones method that does not provide the proper nutrients in the proper balance for this to happen. And you really notice this when your environment is tricked out. Fully sealed A/C, CO2, proper temp/humidity, etc. The Lucas Formula cannot keep up with even the basic 3-part mix, let alone a tailored nute regime to that garden.

 

[Cat Jockey]

One more thing I don't like about the Lucas Formula in addition to what I have already mentioned in those two posts. And no H-S, I am not coming after you personally or even putting this out for your consumption - your mind is already made up. The OP expressed a lack of confidence in the LF. Others, lurkers, wonder if they should use the LF and read threads like this one. I am talking, mostly, to Verdure and the lurkers.

Providing a differing opinion for them to consider while making decisions about managing their gardens that you have labeled as 'cluttering' and 'garbage'. What's wrong with a differing opinion on the subject?

Okay. So the thing I don't like. The Lucas Formula puts the cart before the horse. It lays out a strict nute regime as far as simplicity and dosage. What guys like Lucas and pH are doing are locking a variable of the equation.

An equation where the solution, the thing that follows the = is 'da digity dank' and a nutrient regime SHOULD NOT not be locked in place. It must be optimized for your garden.

There is no one optimal mix for every garden. You cannot lock your nutrient regiment down like the Lucas Formula with its one size fits all and micro and bloom at 8/16 are all you need to get the best grow from your garden and expect the best possible results you can hope to achieve from your grow space.

That is another thing I don't like about the LF. What determines your nutrient regiment ain't a spread sheet or some target ppm numbers put together by a relative few and quite a few years ago.

It is your growing environment. Your system (dirt, E&F, RWDC, etc.), your light (thowie, 600, 400, CFLs, etc.) your temperature, your humidity, your CO2 level, your strain and probably a thing or two more my stoned brain is glossing over - you get the point.

A nutrient solution is not as simple as these numbers of these two nutrients. Your grow space and system are hugely important at how successful you are at reaching the full genetic expression of your plants. And your nutrient regime is tailored to your system and grow space, not locked in place like the Lucas Formula does.

Cart in front of the horse. Evaluate your system and grow environment and then figure out how much of each nute to use. And which nutes.

The Lucas Formula is simplistic and ignores very important factors like this.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

You've now regurgitated two large posts because you're all twitterpated about Lucas's insistence on no additives/supplements. Did ANYONE bring this up or does this have ANYTHING to do with Verdure's issue? No.

That's not what this thread is about. I use them myself when appropriate and would appreciate if you'd stop vomiting here.

Post your personal rants about Lucas in some other thread, thanks.


Anyone else with something On-topic? Verdure? Status since you've been _not_ manually adjusting pH?

Stay Safe!

p.s. Verdure and the Lurkers... Go read that other thread. You'll find plenty of growers having the same issues that Cat Jockey complains about. The Lucas Formula is perfect for beginners, learning... and for professionals to start with as a base nutrient when dialing in strains/rooms. Anyone treating it like a strict, no exceptions nute mix is a loony and I've stated that repeatedly for years.

 

[Cat Jockey]

You've now regurgitated two large posts because you're all twitterpated about Lucas's insistence on no additives/supplements. Did ANYONE bring this up or does this have ANYTHING to do with Verdure's issue? No.

You sure seem to have a lot of rules about what others can and cannot talk about in a thread. Who died and made you king?

Verdue stated, and I quote, again, 'Something about Lucas is not right...'. He is raising doubt. I am confirming his doubt with my own experiences and knowledge. You don't like that. You are promoting yourself as a guru and have staked your reputation on the Lucas Formula in your sig.

And so you come after me for criticizing the LF, calling my posts garbage and clutter. I see you have added vomit now. Umm ... okay. Sweet. Whatever floats yer boat.

All I am doing is speaking to the subject that the OP raised and that is 'Something about Lucas is not right...'. Why do you think the only thing that can be said about the LF must be positive, instead of critical? And justifiably critical at that.

Verdure has more than one issue. Among them using the Lucas Formula. A situation that has now put him in the position of talking about adding epsom salt to his res. I can't state this any more clearly:

The reason people add epsom salt to their reservoir while using the Lucas Formula is that the LF doesn't meet the Mg needs of Sweet Lady Jane.

That makes it a nutrient regiment that is not successfully designed. It has FLAWS. The easiest way to fix that particualr flaw is to buy a bottle of GH Grow, not a bag of salt. That is why I brought up additives H-S, since your panties are in a bunch about it. Lucas Formula DOES NOT include the use of any additives.

This is because: The Lucas Formula is billed and sold as The Only Thing Sweet Lady Jane Needs To Realize Full Genetic Expression In Any Given Grow Space.

And it ain't true.

So, the very fact of having to add epsom salt lets us know that the LF doesn't provide everything the plant needs and in the right balance. So why polish a turd? Why do that when there are many other options of providing N-P-K and micros from a better platform. Like buying a bottle of Grow and using it per the bottle label.

I'm not quite sure the faux pas I engaged in by bringing up additives. I'm sure you'll let me know though.

That's not what this thread is about.

What is this thread about to you? Self-promoting yourself as a guru so you can collect testimonials to use in selling some type of information product about Sweet Lady Jane?

To me it is about someone posting pictures of his grow with some questions about it, including a question about the LF itself and whether it might be part of his problems and then me taking my knowledge and experience and providing him what I believe to be the best advice.

Starting with, 'Ditch the Lucas formula and here are some reasons why ...' and including other tidbits like, 'Don't run full strength nutes on those plants in RDWC like H-S and others telling you - it is bad advice.' I understand why you take that personally H-S, but it ain't meant that way.

I ain't posting to be a douche bag. I am posting to help a grower with his grow.

It is meant to help Verdure, and others in his situation, have the best possible outcome for their grows they have started or are thinking about starting. So, I don't know what to tell you about all yer rules about what I can and can't talk about.

Verdure and the Lurkers... Go read that other thread. You'll find plenty of growers having the same issues that Cat Jockey complains about.

Indeed. Have a look. Unlike you H-S, I don't get butt-hurt when someone suggests an opinion different than mine. I won't be like you and say your suggestion is garbage, or clutter or vomit. I encourage people to educate themselves on the LF.

I also encourage them to not stop their education there though, as you seem to want to insist people do.

Oh, btw, I already covered this, but you won't see any 'Cat Jockey' issues in there. Cat Jockey doesn't need to ask Lucas for advice. And there is no one in that thread asking about issues that has on their growing resume the things I have listed in my previous posts, like running grows that had 10,000 Watt Mother rooms and clone numbers in the 4 digits and successfully run 24 different strains at the same time as mothers in RDWC on a single res and nute regiment.

Please stop saying that the thread you have linked to is about my issues. 'Cause it ain't. Any issues I may face are on a big scale and well above the discussion level of that thread That is just you trying to defend LF by implying I am a newbie grower that doesn't know how to use the Lucas Formula properly.

Puuuhlease. Spare me buddy.

The Lucas Formula is perfect for beginners, learning... and for professionals to start with as a base nutrient when dialing in strains/rooms.

GH 3 part using the recommended dosages is even more perfect for beginners and professionals alike. We have to agree to disagree on this - but you don't want to. You just want to proclaim yourself right and hurl words like vomit at my thoughts about this.

But you, H-s, you don't want to accept that fact. Despite the evidence of you knowing there are issues with it that need to be fixed, by doing things like adding epsom.

Anyone treating it like a strict, no exceptions nute mix is a loony and I've stated that repeatedly for years.

That is what the Lucas Formula is : 2 Parts Bloom to 1 Part Micro (EDIT: I had Micro and Bloom reversed 'cause I was running late, the post was long and the bowls of Sweet Lady Jane were many at that point - so i just fixed it.) at 16/8 per gallon. That IS the LF. Start adding stuff to it, you are no longer using the LF, you are using a nute regiment that is not optimal in providing an N-P-K and micro platform to build off of compared to other options.

And that is not a small point. Lucas claimed his formula is ALL MJ plants needed to reach full genetic expression. He is wrong. His premise is wrong.

So why alter and add to a flawed nute mix designed by a guy who's original premise about that mix is wrong? Why not look for and use a not flawed nute mix instead?

Why add things to the Lucas Formula to fix it instead of just working a different nute regiment that is better overall anyway? That is all I'm asking H-S, but those questions make you uncomfortable.

'Cause of yer guru self-promotion and single minded love for the LF you got goin' on.

 

[Verdure]

Hey guys,

Quite interesting, the past few posts. I would lie to fill in..

Out of 6 single dwc bucket, not rdwc. ONLY one is doing ok.

I also found the PH does NOT move up or down at 550. It stays where I set it the day I mix up the rez...

Even with I top off with regular water. I get lucky to bring a shift of +.1 every 2 top offs...

Now I have seen some rotts after 4-6 weeks of dwc and they are massive, but this is not in my case.

and I have everything dialed in.

I am experienced how ever this is my first time with dwc.

I have some experience with NFT, which is why I have decided to go prepetual NFT after this go.


ALL I WANTED WAS TO GET THESE DWC PLANTS BIG ENOUGH TO TAKE CUTTLINGS..
I That is not even the case after 2 months???

I did a new bucket with Botanicare and its doing much better.

CAT you mentioned ONLY 400 watts? I am vegging? WHY would I need more watts? I could add as much as I want....

I will post new pics tonight.

Hydro SOIL i really appreciate you hep, all the way through, eally you dont know how much it means to me, that I can rely on someone to point me in the right direction consistently.

CAT I also thank you for your input. I agree with you on alot of things.

As far as ebb and flow vs NFT.

I like NFT, its my style, although I understand the difficulties involved in keep mutiple rez's at 65 degree, using a chiller, and building the system properly. But I have already done it.

And will be going htat route..

Its just I think I had a bad start to hydro, a very bad one and did not expect to relay fall like this... But I have to keep trying to make it better.


I will post pics today for you guys and you be the judge

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I like NFT, its my style, although I understand the difficulties involved in keep mutiple rez's at 65 degree, using a chiller, and building the system properly. But I have already done it.

And will be going htat route..

Now I seriously don't understand why you're having issues.

The pH swing and maintenence is almost exactly the same for NFT as it is for DWC. Set at 5.4, top off daily till pH hits 5.8-6.0 and 'adjust' pH back down with nutes then a little pH down (if still necessary).

The swing is dependant upon nute strength and reservoir size. If it's staying the same, the plant is drinking the water/nutes in even amounts. Lower the ppm just a bit and you'll get more of a swing (Pull out some res water and then top off... do that till you hit around 500 and give it a couple of days.)

What's really dumb? I can train people, with no knowledge of the how/why, to do this right... it's when we think about it that it gets all screwed up.

NFT, DWC, DTW, Drip through (insert here), I've used Lucas as the base nute for all... just changed things a bit according to the particular setup. Good luck with NFT.

Stay Safe!

 

[Cat Jockey]

I'm glad you appreciate multiple opinions Verdure - that is all I am trying to offer here.

CAT you mentioned ONLY 400 watts? I am vegging? WHY would I need more watts? I could add as much as I want....

If you have or have access to as much as you want, the question then becomes, 'What are your expectations for your garden?' I would assume that the best possible quality weed you can get out of your room is one of them. The other one I cannot guess about is how much? With many strains, you can hit 2lbs. in a 4' X 4' Ebb & Flow and one 1000 Watt light, once your room is dialed in and you understand what needs to be done and the specifics of that strain.

It also depends upon how long your veg time is as far as why I am asking. If you are running a two week veg period, the difference isn't as noticable, but if you are running a one month veg period, or longer, the amount of growth difference between a 400 Watt light and a thowie is significant. What is also significant is not just the amount, but also the quality of the harvested bud under thowies. You can grow good weed with a 400 W, but you really can't push the plant to a fuller genetic expression, including potency per gram as well as the overall amount of grams, without the more intense light of a thowie.

Now, as it relates to RDWC & DWC (I thought I saw you refer to a reservoir in one of your posts, so I assumed the R. And now I'll assume you have the standard DWC setup, including an airstone in each) the 400 Watt becomes a bigger question - it is a bit of a mismatch.

(R)DWC is like the engine of a race car, with RDWC having more horsepower than DWC. The rest of your growroom is the rest of the components of the race car. The lights are the suspension, your atmosphere (CO2, temp, humidity) are your tires, the nutrient mix is the race fuel, etc.

With a race car, if you don't have race tires, race suspension, race fuel, etc., you never get to experience the full benefits of what the engine can do. The rest of the car cannot keep up, so you have to drive it more like a normal car and less like a race car.

And if you do have a tricked out growroom to handle the engine (RWDC), when you crash, you are going really fast and can get really f'ed up. (R)DWC comes with both benefits and risks. With a 400 Watt light on 6 DWC sites, you have introduced more risk for problems without bringing any of the real benefits of the DWC system along.

Where RDWC really shines, where you can see that explosive root growth that looks like bean sprouts, is when you have a sealed, CO2 enhanced, A/Ced, has about one verticle thowie per plant growroom with proper atmosphere and root zone temperature, etc. That is when you get trees and you evaluate your harvest in pounds/plant instead of grams/watt.

The point of the question is that you have introduced every additional risk for issues that come with (R)DWC, that can include total crop failure and loss, without bringing more than a mere fraction of the benefits people look for and hope to get from (R)DWC system. My opinion is that it is not a good risk/reward trade off if you are using one 400 Watt light.

I also found the PH does NOT move up or down at 550. It stays where I set it the day I mix up the rez...

One thing that can cause this, and is probably the reason for it, is that your plants aren't exchanging any of the nutrients at the root level. One of the major things that causes the pH of a res to rise through the course of a cycle is the plant changing the chemistry of the res by doing its thing, utilizing the available macros and micros in the solution.

If your plants are not metablolizing properly and are hanging out in a stressed out state, not growing or looking like they are getting better after two months, this usually means you need to look at the conditions of the root zone at this point. From the information I have read in this thread so far and your light is an appropriate distance away from the plants and the air temp/humidity is acceptable (which may not have been everything - I may have missed some info), this is sounds like an issue who's root cause (pun intended) stems (look, another pun) from an issue that begins in the overall conditions in the root zone. That is the area you probably need to focus on analyzing and fixing first. This can include different things. For all of the symptoms you see, like any nute deficiencies in the leaves, etc., your real task is to find out what is causing those symptoms to appear. Diagnosing nute deficiencies as far as their actual cause is not an easy task in plants as young as yours and very, very often the deficiencies appear for reasons other than improper amounts in the current nute solution.

Maybe I missed it in one of your posts, but what kind of medium are you using in your netpots, what size is each bucket and how much nute solution do you have in each one (1 inch above the bottom of the net pot or 2" below the bottom of the net pot, etc.).

Also, what do you mean by, 'where I set it'? What is the initial pH of your nute solution before you do any adjustment of it and where is it after you adjust it?

ALL I WANTED WAS TO GET THESE DWC PLANTS BIG ENOUGH TO TAKE CUTTLINGS..
I That is not even the case after 2 months???

The first thing I suggest is a transplant. If you cannot take cuttings after 2 months, and your plants don't rebound, they will eventually die. That is what is at stake - you can turn this grow around with this system or you lose your plants. If you had thoughts of changing systems, now is the time if you want to go back to NFT, a system you are apparently more familiar with if losing your plants creates a bigger loss than you want to face.

If that isn't your desired course, fill us in on few more details and pics and see if someone can come up with a helpful solution.

 

[Verdure]

I'm glad you appreciate multiple opinions Verdure - that is all I am trying to offer here.



If you have or have access to as much as you want, the question then becomes, 'What are your expectations for your garden?' I would assume that the best possible quality weed you can get out of your room is one of them. The other one I cannot guess about is how much? With many strains, you can hit 2lbs. in a 4' X 4' Ebb & Flow and one 1000 Watt light, once your room is dialed in and you understand what needs to be done and the specifics of that strain.

It also depends upon how long your veg time is as far as why I am asking. If you are running a two week veg period, the difference isn't as noticable, but if you are running a one month veg period, or longer, the amount of growth difference between a 400 Watt light and a thowie is significant. What is also significant is not just the amount, but also the quality of the harvested bud under thowies. You can grow good weed with a 400 W, but you really can't push the plant to a fuller genetic expression, including potency per gram as well as the overall amount of grams, without the more intense light of a thowie.

Now, as it relates to RDWC & DWC (I thought I saw you refer to a reservoir in one of your posts, so I assumed the R. And now I'll assume you have the standard DWC setup, including an airstone in each) the 400 Watt becomes a bigger question - it is a bit of a mismatch.

(R)DWC is like the engine of a race car, with RDWC having more horsepower than DWC. The rest of your growroom is the rest of the components of the race car. The lights are the suspension, your atmosphere (CO2, temp, humidity) are your tires, the nutrient mix is the race fuel, etc.

With a race car, if you don't have race tires, race suspension, race fuel, etc., you never get to experience the full benefits of what the engine can do. The rest of the car cannot keep up, so you have to drive it more like a normal car and less like a race car.

And if you do have a tricked out growroom to handle the engine (RWDC), when you crash, you are going really fast and can get really f'ed up. (R)DWC comes with both benefits and risks. With a 400 Watt light on 6 DWC sites, you have introduced more risk for problems without bringing any of the real benefits of the DWC system along.

Where RDWC really shines, where you can see that explosive root growth that looks like bean sprouts, is when you have a sealed, CO2 enhanced, A/Ced, has about one verticle thowie per plant growroom with proper atmosphere and root zone temperature, etc. That is when you get trees and you evaluate your harvest in pounds/plant instead of grams/watt.

The point of the question is that you have introduced every additional risk for issues that come with (R)DWC, that can include total crop failure and loss, without bringing more than a mere fraction of the benefits people look for and hope to get from (R)DWC system. My opinion is that it is not a good risk/reward trade off if you are using one 400 Watt light.



One thing that can cause this, and is probably the reason for it, is that your plants aren't exchanging any of the nutrients at the root level. One of the major things that causes the pH of a res to rise through the course of a cycle is the plant changing the chemistry of the res by doing its thing, utilizing the available macros and micros in the solution.

If your plants are not metablolizing properly and are hanging out in a stressed out state, not growing or looking like they are getting better after two months, this usually means you need to look at the conditions of the root zone at this point. From the information I have read in this thread so far and your light is an appropriate distance away from the plants and the air temp/humidity is acceptable (which may not have been everything - I may have missed some info), this is sounds like an issue who's root cause (pun intended) stems (look, another pun) from an issue that begins in the overall conditions in the root zone. That is the area you probably need to focus on analyzing and fixing first. This can include different things. For all of the symptoms you see, like any nute deficiencies in the leaves, etc., your real task is to find out what is causing those symptoms to appear. Diagnosing nute deficiencies as far as their actual cause is not an easy task in plants as young as yours and very, very often the deficiencies appear for reasons other than improper amounts in the current nute solution.

Maybe I missed it in one of your posts, but what kind of medium are you using in your netpots, what size is each bucket and how much nute solution do you have in each one (1 inch above the bottom of the net pot or 2" below the bottom of the net pot, etc.).

Also, what do you mean by, 'where I set it'? What is the initial pH of your nute solution before you do any adjustment of it and where is it after you adjust it?



The first thing I suggest is a transplant. If you cannot take cuttings after 2 months, and your plants don't rebound, they will eventually die. That is what is at stake - you can turn this grow around with this system or you lose your plants. If you had thoughts of changing systems, now is the time if you want to go back to NFT, a system you are apparently more familiar with if losing your plants creates a bigger loss than you want to face.

If that isn't your desired course, fill us in on few more details and pics and see if someone can come up with a helpful solution.

Coming back and reading this, I have switched to rdwc, still some different nute issues, but great advice here. hope some of you guys are still around