Our meat supply

[ronbo51]

The grain crop is in serious peril from the drought and heat. Meat, along with all other food products, will substantially increase as the year unfolds. The nations food supply is built around the big grains; wheat, soybeans,corn and rice. Of course, these grains are building blocks for animal feed and the entire system is completely reliant on the availability of cheap inputs. Along with the devaluing of the dollar, this will cause widespread food misery for almost everyone. The Department of Agriculture spends 60 billion on Food Stamps(SNAP), the largest item in it's budget, further driving up the price of food artificially. Anyone with land and the ability to do it should consider devoting resources to feed themselves. We just had a major event happen in the Mid Atlantic with the storms that rolled through and outed many people's power. Even though I live in a small town, and not nearly everyone lost power, all the ice, bottled water, and anything that could be served without cooking was gone in the FIRST FEW HOURS. Just imagine if it had been a real catastrophe, or the meltdown that many think is coming.

 

[HempKat]

The grain crop is in serious peril from the drought and heat. Meat, along with all other food products, will substantially increase as the year unfolds. The nations food supply is built around the big grains; wheat, soybeans,corn and rice. Of course, these grains are building blocks for animal feed and the entire system is completely reliant on the availability of cheap inputs. Along with the devaluing of the dollar, this will cause widespread food misery for almost everyone. The Department of Agriculture spends 60 billion on Food Stamps(SNAP), the largest item in it's budget, further driving up the price of food artificially. Anyone with land and the ability to do it should consider devoting resources to feed themselves. We just had a major event happen in the Mid Atlantic with the storms that rolled through and outed many people's power. Even though I live in a small town, and not nearly everyone lost power, all the ice, bottled water, and anything that could be served without cooking was gone in the FIRST FEW HOURS. Just imagine if it had been a real catastrophe, or the meltdown that many think is coming.

Yeah I noticed after that storm there started popping up in the stores, displays of Emergency Food Supplies Like this.

The problem is the mentality of people more then anything else though. That combined with stores be more careful then ever about how much inventory they keep on hand. Mostly it's the people. Think back to the last snow storm before it hit and how the stores get wiped out of bread, milk, tiolet paper etc. Then the snow comes and it's not even enough to close schools for a day. Clearly most people have no clue about what they need to survive and don't plan ahead for emergencies. So when a major weather event hits everyone panics and rushes to the stores and grabs all sorts of stuff (mostly poor food choices) and usually more then they really need. Who cares about the next person in line though, as long as you got yours. This mentality combined with stores trying to keep costs down and losses down by keeping inventory to a minimum is a recipe for disaster for people depending on rushing to the store at the last minute when a disaster hits.

I'm fortunate though, in my family we always did the bulk of our grocery shopping for a month at a time. Other then the once a month grocery shopping the only thing we went to the stores for were the more perisable items like fresh fruits, veggies, milk, etc. Growing up with this as the way to do grocery shopping I too adopted that way (plus it works good when trying to stick to a tight budget). Anyway this sort of shopping requires one to think ahead and because shit happens one usually learns to start keeping some emergency type foods around. So when storms hit I'm usually pretty well prepared and seldom need to rush out to the store.

What gets me about that small disaster in the Mid Atlantic is one of the hardest hit areas (Montgomery County, MD) is also one of the richest counties in the US. You would think the infrastructure in such "wealthy" areas would be better prepared and maintained. Unfortunately the mindset of big business is why waste big money on preventive maintenance for things that may or may not happen.

 

[lost in a sea]

store more than 7 days of food and your a suspected terrorist lol

 

[HempKat]

Talking about all this juicy meat made my mouth water. Personally I have always wanted to live a self-sustaining lifestyle but at this stage in my life it is not possible. I'd love to grow my own veggies and meat and enjoy the great taste of my hard work. Not long ago was the first time I was in the US. I spent a couple of days there and went to some diners and truthfully all the meat I ate burgers, steaks, fries all tasted disgusting. I barely ate anything during my stay. I've been back there many times since then and I have grown to love the meat there but it just doesn't taste like anything back home. It doesn't have the genuine meat flavor. Of course when I visit a VERY expensive restaurant I can acquire that great taste. I don't come from a very big country but I feel that recently a lot of the food here is being chemically treated. (not that much but it's noticeable) I feel that the big multinational corporations are responsible for this and the biggest ones are probably American.

The bigger problem is the amount of competition food businesses have in the US. It's very tough to make a good profit as a restaurant in America and as a result you have restaurants and food producers looking for every possible way to cut corners. A classic example of this was the relatively recent news story of how Taco Bell's Taco beef contained only 35% beef. The average person can't afford what the prices would be like if all restaurants used nothing but the highest quality foods.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Really bro? Put a little thought into it, then come back to us.



Your logic is astounding....



Sure, blame your lack of self control on "addicting" foods.

Yea.. really bro. I'm not advocating or pushing vegan-ism..but

I have put a lot of thought into it...and while I eat meat and enjoy it I'm not naive to the fact that rendered animal fat and salt is bad for my body.

Salt is the craving.. Pretty rare to find a human who enjoys the taste of raw meat with the cooking/salt seasoning to make it taste good. Try it.. raw meat doesnt taste good. Rendered animal fat and salt does. Fruit tastes good right off the plant without cooking/salting.. pretty clear what we are anatomically supposed to eat.

Ever eat Chipotle..its not the black beans and chicken you crave again and again.. its the salt and sodium. Try removing salt from your diet and see what happens when you eat it again. Its not a good thing.

But that is not the issue here.. people can choose to eat whatever they want. The issue is big industry pumping our food (meat) with steroids, hormones, preservatives and who knows what else.

And its not lack of self control keeping me eating "addictive" foods. Its my choice..and I haven't had the consequences of such a diet to change my decision others. I do understand the risks though.. unlike many middle aged men on their death bed in their 50s because of cardiovascular disease.

Your logic is astounding....

If you'd like to educate yourself check out The China Study.

[FONT=verdana, tahoma, helvetica]The findings? "People who ate the most animal-based foods got the most chronic disease ... People who ate the most plant-based foods were the healthiest and tended to avoid chronic disease. These results could not be ignored," said Dr. Campbell.[/FONT]

Bottom line.. animal-based foods are not the greatest source of nutrition and is the cause of a lot of disease. As free humans however we either make the choice change our diets.. or recognize the risks and continue to pound are chests eating meat while knowing the consequences. And regardless of what we eat..as free humans should have the ability to eat what we want minus all of the government bullshit pumped into our food of choice.

Eat meat.. but know the risks...and don't be whining to others when your 55..either have heart attacks or near one, and have to eat pharma drugs all day because of your "condition".

Again.. I'm not vegan and eat salted meat myself.. but I'm also not blind to science behind diet and nutrition.
Put a little thought into it, then come back to us.




Sorry to the OP for having your thread re-railed.. I'm all for self sustainability in providing for oneself. If that means raising your own meat, growing your own garden, hunting, etc.. I'm all for it.

 

[Rainman]

VD - Witty and effective argument as always. I guess it would grow old if people questioned my choices in life over and over again as if it was their choice at all. Respect.

 

[BudToaster]

You would think the infrastructure in such "wealthy" areas would be better prepared and maintained.

it's the greed gene at work ... wealthy are the least willing to pay taxes to support infrastructure -- somebody else may also benefit, and that's just not fair!

 

[HempKat]

it's the greed gene at work ... wealthy are the least willing to pay taxes to support infrastructure -- somebody else may also benefit, and that's just not fair!

Actually it's not from lack of taxes paid but rather greed of the companies. Here's an example. A few years back (2006-2007) there was a spike in gas prices. The cause was BP having to shut down a large section of pipeline for repairs. This affected supply and drove fuel prices up. The leak they were repairing could have been avoided if BP regularly maintained the pipeline and tested for leaks. They don't like to do this though because it's fairly expensive. Since the consequences are serious and far reaching some of the tax breaks the oil companies enjoy are specifically for offseting the costs of such maintenance. Unfortunately rather then doing the responsible thing and use the tax breaks to maintain things they pocketed the savings both from not doing the maintenance and from paying less taxes. End result being, they got richer for doing nothing and in the end we (the consumers) were penalized by thier inaction born of greed.

Same thing with the power companies, how many times do we need to see powerlines downed by a storm and the impact that has on the grid before we actually do things different like putting the powerlines in the ground. I lived in an area that was built up that way from the beginning and the whole time there was never a power failure from a storm causing physical damage. Now I'm in an older community built with the traditional above ground lines and every storm that rolls thru we have to worry about if the power will go out again. On average over the past ten years this area experiences at least a half dozen outages of 6+ hours duration per year.

The reason it doesn't get done is because it would be a huge upfront expense and there isn't much pressure being applied because it would be disruptive and unsightly while the changes were being made. In the end though I bet the savings over time of not having to constantly repair downed lines would offset the intial expense.

 

[ronbo51]

And for anyone who thinks my claim of being charged for things you DO NOT do by the government under Obamacare, such as growing your own food and thus being "in the market" and paying taxes on the money you WOULD HAVE SPENT at the grocery store: In Maryland electric consumers will be charged for the power they DID NOT CONSUME during the storm outage, and also in Maryland, owners of septic systems will be charged for flushing their toilets and pay for NOT USING the wastewater treatment plant and paying for sewer fees. Anyone wonder what all the drones over midwest farmland is all about??

 

[FlowerFarmer]

And for anyone who thinks my claim of being charged for things you DO NOT do by the government under Obamacare, such as growing your own food and thus being "in the market" and paying taxes on the money you WOULD HAVE SPENT at the grocery store: In Maryland electric consumers will be charged for the power they DID NOT CONSUME during the storm outage, and also in Maryland, owners of septic systems will be charged for flushing their toilets and pay for NOT USING the wastewater treatment plant and paying for sewer fees. Anyone wonder what all the drones over midwest farmland is all about??

No doubt..

Liberty in the US is dead. What can not be done through legislation will be done through taxation - ..never mind that whole Constitution thing... Welcome to the land of the free.

Sad times..

Regulation has already caught hold of those farming their own food, growing their own gardens, supplying their own milk/eggs. They dont like.. and don't want it happening as it separates you from the regular working slaves. Expect these areas to be heavily taxed/regulated to the point of being "prohibitive".


Heck they are even using The Department of Transportation to put the squeeze on small farms.

The move by the DOT appears to be “legislation through regulation.” By reclassifying all farm vehicles and implements as Commercial Vehicles, the federal government will now be able to claim regulatory control over the estimated 800,000 farm workers in America, at the same time, overriding the rights of the states.

 

[dagnabit]

The United States is slowly turning into a third world country. It's funny how we continue to think we're the best country on Earth, yet it's getting where to even maintain the most minimum of decent living standards (like eating quality food) requires one to either be rich, or a reclusive hippie.

LMAO

try living in a starving african village before you make this claim.

 

[diggdugg]

FlowerFarmers post brings up a good point about federal scum coming after folks who grow crops/animals(small farmers). One thing I did when I bought a place and jumped into farming and ranching was REFUSED to register with the USDA! Everyone in ag says you need to do this and you do IF you want farm subsidies, crop insurance or any of the welfare the farm bill provides. That is not my style and ag is not my main line of work so I am not on their list. I would encourage everyone in ag to back away from the USDA programs.

 

[weeddaddy50]

Wow..Maryland sucks for that

Wow..Maryland sucks for that

That...charged for power you did not consume???

And for anyone who thinks my claim of being charged for things you DO NOT do by the government under Obamacare, such as growing your own food and thus being "in the market" and paying taxes on the money you WOULD HAVE SPENT at the grocery store: In Maryland electric consumers will be charged for the power they DID NOT CONSUME during the storm outage, and also in Maryland, owners of septic systems will be charged for flushing their toilets and pay for NOT USING the wastewater treatment plant and paying for sewer fees. Anyone wonder what all the drones over midwest farmland is all about??

 

[pearlemae]

Even when it says its organic, it may not be. I prefer tpo grow my own used to grow everything I ate. We only had to buy salt and toilet paper. It takes a lot of work for those that want to do but haven't had the chance.

 

[TPIMP]

The bigger problem is the amount of competition food businesses have in the US. It's very tough to make a good profit as a restaurant in America and as a result you have restaurants and food producers looking for every possible way to cut corners. A classic example of this was the relatively recent news story of how Taco Bell's Taco beef contained only 35% beef. The average person can't afford what the prices would be like if all restaurants used nothing but the highest quality foods.

Makes sense. But I don't understand why the average person wouldn't be able to afford it. Is there more demand than supply? I understand about cutting corners almost everyone does it, but not serving 100% meat, isn't that a little extreme. Doesn't America have a big enough meat industry? If not then why don't people start farming animals and start exporting meat? I don't really eat taco bell anyway it does something weird to my stomach lol

 

[demasoni]

We NEVER have or will fill out this POS...

They want way too much information that can do us no good and its no bussiness of the USDA what we do on our farm.
We are licensed and inspected for egg sales by the state who actualy do a good job insuring common sense pratices are followed and have been no problem.
They call, I say hes not at home and eventualy they give up....


About The Census

The Census of Agriculture is the leading source of facts and figures about American agriculture. Conducted every five years, the Census provides a detailed picture of U.S. farms and ranches and the people who operate them. It is the only source of uniform, comprehensive agricultural data for every state and county in the United States.

For the 2012 Census of Agriculture, forms will be mailed in late December 2012 and farmers and ranchers are asked to respond by mail or online by February 4, 2013. Participation by every farmer and rancher, regardless of the size or type of operation, is vitally important. By responding to the Census, producers are helping themselves, their communities and all of U.S. agriculture.

The 2012 Census of Agriculture will collect information concerning all areas of farming and ranching operations, including production expenses, market value of products, and operator characteristics. This information is used by everyone who provides services to farmers and rural communities - including federal, state and local governments, agribusinesses, and many others. Census data is used to make decisions about many things that directly impact farmers, including:
•community planning
•store/company locations
•availability of operational loans and other funding
•location and staffing of service centers
•farm programs and policies



Participation in the Census is required by law, and that same law protects the confidentiality of all individual responses.

The Census of Agriculture is your voice, your future and your responsibility!

BITE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Last Modified: 04/10/2012

Is part of that actual txt of the census or your being sarcastic?

Your really nailing it on the head chickenman. SO do you raise chicken to eat also? process them yourself?
What is this "POS" you refer to?
sounds like the registration I'm wondering about.
If you raise any livestock you have to register??? register what, what does it entail and enforce?
What i want to know is how "registration" or any other form affects someone (me) who wants to cycle enough chickens to provide ONLY for myself, nothing brought to market/sold. Same with a little beef, for my dinner table only. the chicken and beef raised and processed by ME, never leaving the farm (except a little trading/ sell to "friends" in need which will never be the gubments business, ever).
If thats the case do they STILL want/require me to "register" in some manner and then abide by "usda guidlines"?

Break the whole thing down for me if you can, or at least direct me to where its broken down (i've tried browsing the usda site and I get lost in infinite regulation not knowing what applies to me).
Looking for how they categorize "farmers", how they monitor, enforce, the whole thing etc.

If they are going to require me to register enough roosters/hens just to keep MY fridge/freezer stocked then

FUCKING

BITE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.or the teflon tip.

 

[demasoni]

This is going to get crazy.
So to your knowledge all beef destined for sale on market must go to usda processing facility? Then all beef processed in "USDA" facility is treated" beyond necessity (chems, sprays), even if you sent some to slaughter for your own table?

The census is on going sent out every 5 years, I file it in the trash as soon as its recieved..
So far were not required to register or comply with USDA reglations. This limits us as far as selling our poultry which is fine for us. In past years we gave raised as many as 1500 meat chickens.
The way we work it is you purchase the chicken live. Since your the owner its your choice to take home and butcher yourself or we will butcher for you free of charge
Its your responsiblity to inspect and approve our processing plant and method of butchering. Since we dont charge for butchering no inspection required, maybe be a grey area but weve never had a problem fo 12 years.
I can assure you our chickens are processed in a much safer manner than any USDA approved faculity.

Lead the way and keep fighting!
-SO chickenman I take it when YOU butcher YOUR chicken, you do nothing but kill, pluck, gut, rinse (h2O only) and bag, not a damn thing more?
my understanding is thats how you get the best chicken possible, let me know if theres anything else necessary but natural.

The National Animal Identification System, (NAIS) is a government-run program in the United States intended to extend government animal health surveillance by identifying and tracking specific animals.[1]
The technology to be used for identification has not yet been finally chosen, although some recommendations have been made by the different species working groups, which represent animal producers. Radio frequency identification (RFID), such as that found in microchips, retinal scanning[citation needed], and DNA samples are among the possibilities.

I'm still seeing red.blood boiling. RFID, I'm so fucking surprised.

In Wisconsin, the first state to make NAIS mandatory by allowing Premises ID to become law in January 2006, there is the ability to allow for exemptions of small farms. However, this has been denied by the Department of Agriculture, Trade, and Consumer Protection (DATCP) in their rule making.

So DATCP = backstabber.

.
Other concerns in Wisconsin and other states (who contract with WLIC) is that the system is not maintained by state government, but instead relies upon the Wisconsin Livestock Identification Consortium (WLIC) to maintain the database of Premises ID registrants. This is currently continuing with the RFID tagging database as well.[20] The WLIC is a private interest group made up of Big Agribusiness, including Cargill, Genetics/Biotech Corporations, like ABS Global, and RFID tagging companies such as Digital Angel,[21] and many of these members parallel NIAA membership.[22]
.

So NIAA = evil

-What other states are contracting with WLIC/similar members, or working with NIAA?
-DOES ANYONE KNOW OREGONS CURRENT STANCE AGAINST THESE ENTITIES?

-Lastly, any idea by what means they will enforce these rules should it become federal mandate?
suggestions for subverting these regulations if it reaches your state?

We need to get the word out to those who don't know and have everyone fighting NAIS. I'm sick, every facet our freedom and independence perpetually under attack by regulations quietly implemented under the guise of 'legal avenues' (not lawful). Simply forming contracts, no legit lawmaking, no lawful laws. Always disguised as "in everyones best interest, health, safety". Bull fucking shit.
I'm thinking just raise the chickens/few cattle under radar like MJ in an illegal state if it comes to it. Oh wait, drones watching for that.


I'll continue to research deeper into this mess, I just have enough on my plate, sick and rushing to do necessary research for relocation within next month . Obviously trying to go to a place vehemently opposed to this mess and similar regulation. (oregon I hope)

 

[HempKat]

Makes sense. But I don't understand why the average person wouldn't be able to afford it. Is there more demand than supply? I understand about cutting corners almost everyone does it, but not serving 100% meat, isn't that a little extreme. Doesn't America have a big enough meat industry? If not then why don't people start farming animals and start exporting meat? I don't really eat taco bell anyway it does something weird to my stomach lol

Okay I worded that a little poorly, I mean if they used 100% quality beef in their taco beef, their costs would go up significantly enough to where they would have to raise prices enough that it would drive people to other, cheaper competitors. Not that people wouldn't be able to afford it at all, ever but why pay say $8 for a decent lunch when right next door you can get a decent lunch for half that price. It's not that there is enough beef or not it's a matter of the average person's salary in America is shrinking and people are all looking to save where they can and get the best bang for their buck. A big part of the problem is that companies rarely want to accept losses. Rather then seeing them as part of doing business and finding honest ways to avoid them companies add it in under operating expenses and averages the cost onto the consumer. When you or I or any individual citizen makes a mistake or does something that gets us fined or allows people to steal from us we have to eat that and do what we can to prevent it in the future. We can't pass it on to everyone else. If corporations are people according to the supreme court they why are they exempt from taking responsibility for their losses? Their poor judgement? Sorry that's really a whole different rant.

To rephrase it the market is so tight right now that where the demand is, is for the cheapest. That's why fast food does well, Walmart, any big box store really and while they try to portray themselves above this most companies will gladly screw the consumer, the government or even both if they think they can get away with it. So you get your 35% beef taco meat, or you find the bottom of many of the jarred food items you buy is curved in more such that what appears to be the same size jar now holds less but you still pay the same price as when the bottoms were flatter and you got more.

 

[TPIMP]

Okay I worded that a little poorly, I mean if they used 100% quality beef in their taco beef, their costs would go up significantly enough to where they would have to raise prices enough that it would drive people to other, cheaper competitors. Not that people wouldn't be able to afford it at all, ever but why pay say $8 for a decent lunch when right next door you can get a decent lunch for half that price. It's not that there is enough beef or not it's a matter of the average person's salary in America is shrinking and people are all looking to save where they can and get the best bang for their buck. A big part of the problem is that companies rarely want to accept losses. Rather then seeing them as part of doing business and finding honest ways to avoid them companies add it in under operating expenses and averages the cost onto the consumer. When you or I or any individual citizen makes a mistake or does something that gets us fined or allows people to steal from us we have to eat that and do what we can to prevent it in the future. We can't pass it on to everyone else. If corporations are people according to the supreme court they why are they exempt from taking responsibility for their losses? Their poor judgement? Sorry that's really a whole different rant.

To rephrase it the market is so tight right now that where the demand is, is for the cheapest. That's why fast food does well, Walmart, any big box store really and while they try to portray themselves above this most companies will gladly screw the consumer, the government or even both if they think they can get away with it. So you get your 35% beef taco meat, or you find the bottom of many of the jarred food items you buy is curved in more such that what appears to be the same size jar now holds less but you still pay the same price as when the bottoms were flatter and you got more.

I see everything is more clearer now. Stuffs still a bit confusing though. For me it seems that the American consumer wants exactly that, efficiency and bang for the buck, so naturally the consumer put these corporations that offered that (walmart for example) at the top. And you are telling me they actually try to rip people off with some products in order to win more money. (or paying low wages to employees etc.) so how can this be solved? (so people aren't exploited) because to me it seems it would just get worse and worse

 

[diggdugg]

Damn right Chickenman. I throw that census away too. It gets very detailed and really it's none of their business what I do for my own use. The feds have been pushing hard for micro-chipping livestock but most ranchers are very much against that. It's really just a way to tax us for each animal they know about. My cattle will never have a damn rfid chip installed. The feds and state government are coming after private water wells too. They want to regulate and tax private rural wells. My state just had a huge fight about who owns the water under your land. Thankfully property owners won that battle, but the federal fight will be next. As for butchering I am very lucky to have a friend that is a retired butcher that has his own private facility and does a wonderful job.