Fermented plant extracts

[ClackamasCootz]

So I am wondering if anybody has tried to extract for polyphenols? Any homebrew lab methods? I have some examples but they are full on working lab examples and I don't have that kind of equipment at easy grasp!

I whipped this up a few weeks ago from Dr. Duke and is for Lemon Balm [Melissa officinalis] grows wild all over the Western US.
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Oregonism

The Citronellal (monoterpenoid) & Rosmarinic acid (an ester of caffein acid with Lactic acid) are found in the distilled botanical oils from several culinary herbs (again the Mint family in particular).

When I talked with the Lavender farm in Oregon City which grows 35 cultivars and they produce a number of Lavender products including extracts, oils, etc. they told me that Rosmarinic acid in particular has a very low solubility in water and either solvents or a distillation process is required to get any workable amount.

Meaning that if you bought the organic plant extracts from Mountain Rose Herbs (Eugene, OR) or Liberty Naturals (Oregon City, OR) then these 2 compounds would be present.

CC

 

[SeaMaiden]

SeaMaiden

I just finished What A Plant Knows: A Field Guide to the Senses by Dr. Daniel Chamovitz which was published in May. NPR did a story on this book a few days ago which lead me to grab a copy and I read it from cover to cover yesterday.

Stunning in it's breadth and science. The most important book on botany that I've read in several years.

CC

Just d/l'd it for my Kindle app, just finished Lady of the English, and I'll have to take breaks from my other science-y stuff reading, so this will be perfect.

Many thanks.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

SeaMaiden

Did you know that Amazon allows you to upload PDF files (and others) to your Kindle account? When you do this instead of having a single page that you have to scroll, scroll through to read the information when you view it in the Kindle app it now flips from page to page. The pages are set to fit the 'view port' of the device you're using. In this format you can now create Bookmarks, Notes which are cites you highlight (pick a color) and then you can add your own comments, questions, outside information, etc.

IOW you can read these files on your Android or iPhone mobile devices as well as the Kindle devices, iPads and I assume the Android tablets.

Hang out at Soil & Health Library (Steve Solomon's web site) and you can build a library for free. I downloaded the entire set of work by Luther Burbank (for example) from Solomon's web site as well as Project Gutenberg, JSTOR, et al.

HTH

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Here's how I use the Kindle app and the iBook app from Apple on the iPad. I open the Kindle app on the desktop along with a browser. I open the PDF on the computer as well as the iPad and begin searching for cites that need further research.

When I do that then that document is updated across 6 mobile devices. If I make an edit on the iPhone then it's the same deal.

CC

Photo of how it's set-up here:

 

[Amber Trich]

what im getting is the powerful insecticide/deterrent properties (simple hydrocarbon chains)are better obtained using a quick water extraction?

im still not there.

it seems like monoterpenes such as linalool and menthol are generally thought to be more soluble in steam, mid-high percentage ethanol, or oil than water

linalool has a water solubility rating of .16 on a scale of 1-5, 1 being "Substance & water do not mix and stay completely separate. The substance remains in chunks or globs. "

when i crush mint leaves and put cool water on them very little happens.

im not disagreeing that the extraction works, i just think its the pulverization of the material that is causing the constituents to release and not the quick water wash.

but as long as it works it doesnt really matter why i think it works lol
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that book sounds interesting.

The part where he explains his work in the area of pesticides and fungicides that the plant produces on the leaves are triggered by things like an insect landing on a leaf or flower will put the plant into overdrive moving Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen into place to begin production which can continue for several days if necessary without stop.

so how do plants quickly change their makeup when they see us coming, when they know we will be harvesting them as medicine <3

also nice kindle tip. i have to learn to use my kindle better, i didnt even see it for kindle on amazon

 

[ClackamasCootz]

i just think its the pulverization of the material that is causing the constituents to release and not the quick water wash

I never said anything different......

 

[ClackamasCootz]

MM

Before I ask you about fermentation, what is your understanding of baker's yeast (aka brewer's yeast), i.e. Saccharomyces cerevisiae?

Fungi?

CC

 

[Dkgrower]

Hey all,

Clack its a source off B vitamin,

just bought 25 kg bag for 20 us dollars it comes mixed with barley and 40% yeast, i get it at animal feed supplys and use it together with pure Ascophyllum nodosum from Algeafert that i just add water and let sit fore some days.

Happy summer to ya all

 

[ClackamasCootz]

A new Yarrow hybrid finally coming online

 

[Scrappy4]

SeaMaiden

I just finished What A Plant Knows: A Field Guide to the Senses by Dr. Daniel Chamovitz which was published in May. NPR did a story on this book a few days ago which lead me to grab a copy and I read it from cover to cover yesterday.

Stunning in it's breadth and science. The most important book on botany that I've read in several years.

CC

Thanks for the tip coots. I picked the amazon version up last night and read most of it in bits and spurts last night and today. Very interesting read. This is no secret life of plants book either. It's the real deal.....scrappy

 

[Oregonism]

MM

Before I ask you about fermentation, what is your understanding of baker's yeast (aka brewer's yeast), i.e. Saccharomyces cerevisiae?

Fungi?

CC

Ever heard of Vegemite? from down under, same thing mixed. Loaded with B vitamins. I have tried different brewer's yeasts as cloning solutions, most after all are just B complex vitamins.

I was thinking about the terpenoid comment as well, the Mint Family has quite a few participants. In Clackamas, the wild mints that are considered weeds are the real gems, Creeping Charlie [Nepeta], Lemon Balm, Hedge Nettle, Mexican Hedge Nettle, Yerba Buena [Savory]. Heal-All aka Self Heal, Hook Herb, Hook Heal [Prunella vulgaris]

I picked the Lemon Balm and it has been drying for about 3 days now on elevated screen in the garage, and the hygro says about 51% RH, but now the smell of citronellal [which is overwhelming when fresh picked] is almost completely gone. I wonder how much evaporated away or was broken down by O and N, crazy.

Will have to make a tea right as a pick more fresh balm and compare the two and their effects.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Oregonism

I'm a trained artisan baker (SFBI & BBGA) and my question to MM was relative to a comment he made about cold fermentation. The same technique is used to retard the fermentation of bread doughs for several hours. The yeast produces a wide range of enzymes which gives you the flavor of a baguette vs. sliced white bread.

Several years a go, a bakery in Paris (Raymond Clavel) developed a method where you start off with ice water when you mix the dough and then the dough is immediately placed in the coldest part of the cooler and kept there for 18 - 24 hours. This gives you a bread dough that will taste & smell exactly like Asiago cheese. This is how bakeries create Asiago Cheese Bread, i.e. the amount of actual cheese that hits that dough is about on the same level (as a percentage) of bat guano in a bag of FFOF. Same trick played with bottled 'nutes' with Banana Oil - it missed a banana plant by at least 5 exits on the Banfield Freeway.

Back to the local stuff, Yarrow is friggin' everywhere, both the native white & yellow plants. Horsetail ferns can be found but it takes a bit of looking. Same with Stinging Nettles but once you find a patch there's a ton of it available. Livestock and deer will wipeout this plant quickly.

Kudzu is also easily sourced. A lot of money is spent in Portland trying to eradicate this plant. Best wishes on that.

Off to the Waterfront Blues Festival for opening night. We bought 5-day tickets and tomorrow night Toots & The Maytals are playing at one of the 4 stages. Curtis Salgado, Booker T (without the MG's I guess), Linda Horbuckle, King Louie & Sweet Baby James, Cedric Watson & Bijou - and a ton of other between tonight and Sunday night.

"Keep Portland Weird"

CC

 

[Oregonism]

Wanted to sneak a question in, before the fireworks.

Has anyone experimented with extractions in vinegar? I have some accident blackberry vinegar and not much literature is out there, but I am interested in the acetic acid reaction and fermentation. Just an educated guess: The hydrogen is liberated leaving a carboxyl group, similar to a terpenoid structure?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

A Fragrant Introduction to Terpenoid Chemistry by C.S. Sell would be a good source to read and digest.

From the liner notes:

Terpenoids play an important part in all our lives, from Vitamin A and hormones to perfumes and pharmaceuticals. This book provides an introduction to terpenoid chemistry, concentrating on the lower terpenoids, but the basic principles taught are also the foundation for the chemistry of the higher terpenoids. Coverage includes: the biogenesis of terpenoids; some of the history of the field; the principles of structural determination; and the importance of stereochemistry and stereoselective synthesis. Carbocation chemistry is introduced, as are the principles of total and partial synthesis. Finally, industrial chemistry (both discovery chemistry and chemical process development) is discussed, using the volatile terpenoids of perfumery to illustrate basic concepts. Ideal as both an introduction to terpenoid chemistry and as a refresher course, A Fragrant Introduction to Terpenoid Chemistry, with its real-life problems and appreciation of the relevance of chemistry to everyday life, will prove invaluable to students, lecturers and industrialists alike.

The Chemistry of Fragrances by D.H. Pybus & C.S. Sell is another good source to become familiar with.

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Scrappy4

Actually the Kindle app can really open up doors to libraries around the world - public, academic, research organizations, etc. For good or bad it is a standard for downloading eBooks.

You 'check them out' just like a real book, i.e. you have a due date though it's impossible to have any overdue charges because at 12:00 PM on the due date the book goes away on whatever device you're running Kindle on. You can also lend or borrow books from others and while that book is out on loan it is not available to the lender until the loan period is over (14 days).

Add to that the ability to upload PDF documents for no charge and it's a pretty nice tool.

Another great resource that's also free is iTunes U which you access through the iTunes application on your main computer (Windows or Mac) or IOS device. From the name it looks like it's where you would learn how to use iTunes but that isn't what it's about.

When you open iTunes and navigate to iTunes U what'll you'll find is access to universities, research foundations (like The Rodale Institute), government agencies from around the globe.

Chemistry (including organic chemistry), botany, biology, mathematics, philosophy, medicine, etc. All are free and in many cases a specific topic from a school will include the entire series of lectures from a semester. The organic chemistry material is a good place to start, IMHO

Again free and you can either view them via the iTunes app or download the audio and video files for your library.

CC

 

[SeaMaiden]

If you get or have a library card (I *still* have my Whittier Library card from 1978!) then you can participate in the Kindle library lending program. I need to get a card from a library, but I don't know when ours are open, and the nearest one has been closed for two years with no reopening date.

You can't lend ALL books. I wanted to lend some books on balancing hormones and I can't. I can lend almost all my historical fiction, but not these informational books. Bit of a pisser, keeps you in hardcopy if you're a hardcore lender. I'm not, but it still bothers me. Also, you can only lend a Kindle book ONCE, and that's it.

Since I use my app on a Tablet, I can also run the Google Play (used to be Books) app, as well as Nook.


WE LIVE IN MODERN TIMES.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

SeaMaiden

I was trying to be as kind as possible on the Kindle technology. It is not by any stretch of the imagination the best eBook reader - not even close.

Kindle is to eBook readers what McDonald's is to hamburgers - they're not the best but they sell the most.

Sound familiar? LOL

CC

 

[shmalphy]

 

[SeaMaiden]

SeaMaiden

I was trying to be as kind as possible on the Kindle technology. It is not by any stretch of the imagination the best eBook reader - not even close.

Kindle is to eBook readers what McDonald's is to hamburgers - they're not the best but they sell the most.

Sound familiar? LOL

CC

I was dragged kicking and screaming. Then I tore out my ACL, and my husband got me my first Tablet. The Kindle thing being tied with Amazon is just overall easier for me. Since I haven't used an iAnything, I can't speak to usability, quality, what have you.

Aren't the books the same? That's what I'm after, the information or entertainment contained within.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

SeaMaiden

It's not about any book per se but rather what technologies a specific reader supports such as Bookmarks. Any reader allows you to set a bookmark (duh!) but better readers allow you to add your comments or whatever.

Some readers allow you to highlight a text string (no limit on length) and this creates a Note which again you can add your comments or whatever.

These technologies are, in part, dependent on what the publisher includes within the actual eBook document. I've been working on a book on (interestingly enough) botanical teas. Creating the actual book is a breeze - no more complicated than creating a Word document basically. It's the indexing which is the challenge - just like with printed books. Indexing specialists make BIG money and the skilled technicians make incredible money.

Setting this indexing into a 'database' within the book is where things get dicey and challenging. You have to consider which eBook format you want to target and Kindle & iBook are only 2 players. Get into the Unix and Linux readers and the open source readers for Windows, Mac OS X and the readers for the GUI-friendly versions of Linux and it's clear that this is not settled technology. Not by any stretch of imagination.

CC