Lucas, Wer art thou

[Hydro-Soil]

What's the strain? There are a number of strains that are known for this... more and more as people breed with them. Heh.

If it really is mag (not doubting you), pick up a bag of epsom salts and use a full gram per gallon the next 2 feedings... see how that works. The difficulty is in making sure that the issue is not from a pH imbalance or improper swing. If that's solid, you'll most likely see an almost immediate greening up on the first application.

Best is horticultural grade epsom but grocery epsom will do in a pinch.... the grocery stuff has a much lower quality/consistency usually.

Stay Safe!

 

[Verdure]

What's the strain? There are a number of strains that are known for this... more and more as people breed with them. Heh.

If it really is mag (not doubting you), pick up a bag of epsom salts and use a full gram per gallon the next 2 feedings... see how that works. The difficulty is in making sure that the issue is not from a pH imbalance or improper swing. If that's solid, you'll most likely see an almost immediate greening up on the first application.

Best is horticultural grade epsom but grocery epsom will do in a pinch.... the grocery stuff has a much lower quality/consistency usually.

Stay Safe!

HS, good to see you

Strain is Sensi seeds big bhudda

I am at 400 ppm and added 3ml per gallon of botanicare calmag
and 3ml/g of dyna grow protekt(silicon solution) this brought it up to about 480.

Will see how that pans out...

Next Res change I wil up to 500 ppm Lucas with Dyna protect and calmag. If the problem persists, I am changing nutes completely.

I am on week 6 and they look very small....for their age

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Can't really give you advice if you use cal/mag... Never used it and don't know how nutes/plants respond to it.

Protekt is good. I've used around 5-10ml/gal with nice results.

What are your res temps?

I mean this in the nicest, most helpful way possible.... if you can't get good results with Maxibloom or Lucas formula using the Flora 3part... you're not going to have much luck with anything else. Switching nutes won't help.

Look up the genetics of Big Buddha and see if either of the parents are strains that folks have a lot of mag deficiencies with.

Stay Safe!

 

[Guest 18340]

(Soaked hydroton in PH before use)

This is new Hydroton?

I am at 400 ppm and added 3ml per gallon of botanicare calmag

Botanicare recommends 1 ml/gal or 2 ml/gal for an "accelerated formula". 3 ml/gal is not going to to anything more than 2 ml/gal can/will.
And I have to agree with Hydro-Soil, if you can't get good results with Maxibloom or Lucas formula using the Flora 3part... you're not going to have much luck with anything else. Switching nutes won't help.

 

[Verdure]

This is new Hydroton?

Botanicare recommends 1 ml/gal or 2 ml/gal for an "accelerated formula". 3 ml/gal is not going to to anything more than 2 ml/gal can/will.
And I have to agree with Hydro-Soil, if you can't get good results with Maxibloom or Lucas formula using the Flora 3part... you're not going to have much luck with anything else. Switching nutes won't help.

Yes its new hydroton.

Well, I am going to up room temp to 74 from 70f, might switch from 24/0 to 16/8

It could be because they had a tough begging with the LED and stretched during germination..

I started 3 from scratch and will used sure to grow cubes instead of hydroton, not stretch this time. nutes will be botanicare on one, dynagrow on the other, and lucas on the 3rd.

I just don't understand what the problem is....

 

[Verdure]

This is my first DWC setup and am growing to not like it. I feel like the roots are chocked from being in water 24/7.

Something about Lucas is not right...

NFT is coming up regardless.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

There is nothing wrong with lucas. Adding anything other than pro-tekt or epsom will throw the lucas balance off, making it more difficult to dial in and harder on plants.

The roots will not get choked up unless there isn't enough oxygen in the water.

DWC provides more explosive growth than NFT.

Figure it out. Skipping around and adding projects will not help you figure it out. You'll get it... no worries. It just takes time, thought and experience.

Stay Safe!

 

[Verdure]

There is nothing wrong with lucas. Adding anything other than pro-tekt or epsom will throw the lucas balance off, making it more difficult to dial in and harder on plants.

The roots will not get choked up unless there isn't enough oxygen in the water.

DWC provides more explosive growth than NFT.

Figure it out. Skipping around and adding projects will not help you figure it out. You'll get it... no worries. It just takes time, thought and experience.

Stay Safe!

thank you for the words of encouragement..

I upped to 550ppm with 2ml/g of protekt..

the protekt raises the PH. its seems like I have to PH down much more often now.. but lets see.. hows its gonna go. I am starting to get a hang of it...

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Like riding a bike.
Your first harvest(s) may not be optimal... but they'll still be way better than what you can get around here on an average friday.

This is the main reason why I recommend people start with a small light and a small number of plants at first. Too many times I've seen new growers with 2,000 watts of light and 0 hours of experience.

You're going to do great.

Stay Safe!

 

[havesum2]

Hydro has ya headed in the right direction.
Lucas\Maxi and Epsom salt and a good PH pen is all you need.
Most don't usually need Epsom salt but i seem to need it always.
My water is about 60ppm when i start. Yours is 30ppm.

IMHO I would stick with nothing more than Lucas\Maxi and some Epsom salt until they all look pretty again.
Thats all mine get and if PH is good I have never had an issue.

Just my

Peace and Good luck with em.

Hav

 

[Verdure]

How much Epsom do you put...

They have been verging for 6 weeks and are quite small...

 

[Verdure]

update:

amazing weather here in holland!

lucas formula 550 ppm, 24/0 Mh veg
water temp 72f
room temp 73-78
PH 5.7

new growth is much better, however, still some twisting,

yellow tips

thoughts?

 

[Verdure]

anyone?

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Sorry, internet spotty. Solid again probably tues or wed.

Twisting is usually a sign of pH being off. How long at 5.7 and what do the root tips look like? When the shoots growing off the sides of the root tips are symetrical, the pH is too high. It begins to look like a pole ladder. The shoots should be alternating like the branches of a mature plant.

If it's been at 5.7 for more than a day and the twisting is increasing... I'd say the calibration is off on how you're checking the pH, might be higher than you think.

If it's been at 5.7 for more than a day... it's time to drop the pH back down with nutes... since you're trying the 550 still, use pH down instead. Drop the pH down to what you started at... somewhere between 5.2 and 5.4, depending on how much of a drop in pH your system has before you top off each day.

If your pH calibration is off... t'would explain a lot of your issues so far.

Stay Safe!

 

[FlowerFarmer]

I cant speak on the Lucas formula being ass backwards.. I've used it for years - no issues.

When pH issues come to mind in DWC I think reservoir size. In my earlier years I've noticed that with smaller quantities of water if you were even the slightest bit strong on the nutes you'd experience large pH swings in the res as the plants drank...despite you having mixed up and set pH properly.

If the plant consumes more water then nutrient in a smaller res it will result in a super low pH / high PPM concentration remaining in your reservoir. In a larger res the effects are not as much as an issue, but in smaller reservoirs your pH can be dropping low without you ever realizing before topping up with water.

So my recommendation if running a small qty of water is to mix a bit weak and top off daily with RO/fresh water to prevent your res from dipping too low pH / elevated ppm as your water level drops. This allows your ph to move within the range while PPMs drop slightly.

Hope that helps... just my 2c from running small DWC totes over the years. Depending on how often your adding back water your water's parameters might not always be what you think they are.

I'm not saying low pH is your issue as it might be the opposite.. but are you testing your res both fully topped up..and also after it has been drank on for a few days.


PS - your water temp at 72 is borderline too warm. I'd typically start to see issues/poor performance over 71....68 being an ideal temp in which pythium and other root nasties cant thrive.

 

[Verdure]

I dunno,

the Ph usually swings, and then the 3 time i add ph down, its stay at where i set it, which is usually 5.6 the last time..

then I manually increase it will silica every other day to 6.0 and then I start on fresh nutes...


The roots look ok....

but I am 6 weeks and it just too small...

I stayed some new one on botnaicare and will see what happens.

I am using GHE ph down and will switch to dyna grow PH down as well.

I literally have tried everything....

They just dont want to be normal...

I usually dont top off, I just switch Rez every week or 2..

maybe I am not a dwc guy, and I am begging to get that feeling...
Really, this thing is my life and its been very very dissapointing, i just want ot get it right... I will start over forever, but nft, large res.

the other ones are stunted and dont even grow... anymore...

 

[Verdure]

I use a blue lab, its pretty on point, unless I dont know...

I'll get another meter....

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I dunno,

the Ph usually swings, and then the 3 time i add ph down, its stay at where i set it, which is usually 5.6 the last time..

then I manually increase it will silica every other day to 6.0 and then I start on fresh nutes...

ok.. this is an issue.
The pH should only be rising. If it's rising more than .3 a day, you most likely need to use a higher ppm.

Manually increasing the pH with silica? Let it rise by itself. You're an observer until it hits 5.8-6.0 and you're adjusting it down. Tell you what, read the suggestion below...

I usually dont top off, I just switch Rez every week or 2..

Ok.. perfect. Let's make this simple and you'll see what great results are lurking for you. (Edit: But you're going to have to top off. That's very important and not doing it has probably been causing most of your issues. Can't believe I never noticed that before. *sigh*)

Quit paying attention to ppm except when you mix the solution. (I believe you're going to quickly find you're not feeding them enough.)

Mix up a full res, pH it at 5.4 and top it off every day with clean water. When you've added the full res worth in clean water, dump it and re-fill it. Only check the pH to ensure it hasn't risen past 6.0, you shouldn't have to adjust it after you get the ppm right.

If the pH is rising too fast, use pH down to drop it to 5.4 again and mix the next batch at a higher ppm.

I believe you're just 'doing' too much and need to observe more.

Stay Safe!

 

[Verdure]

ok.. this is an issue.
The pH should only be rising. If it's rising more than .3 a day, you most likely need to use a higher ppm.

Manually increasing the pH with silica? Let it rise by itself. You're an observer until it hits 5.8-6.0 and you're adjusting it down. Tell you what, read the suggestion below...



Ok.. perfect. Let's make this simple and you'll see what great results are lurking for you. (Edit: But you're going to have to top off. That's very important and not doing it has probably been causing most of your issues. Can't believe I never noticed that before. *sigh*)

Quit paying attention to ppm except when you mix the solution. (I believe you're going to quickly find you're not feeding them enough.)

Mix up a full res, pH it at 5.4 and top it off every day with clean water. When you've added the full res worth in clean water, dump it and re-fill it. Only check the pH to ensure it hasn't risen past 6.0, you shouldn't have to adjust it after you get the ppm right.

If the pH is rising too fast, use pH down to drop it to 5.4 again and mix the next batch at a higher ppm.

I believe you're just 'doing' too much and need to observe more.

Stay Safe!

isnt the water going to raise the Ph too much? Or do I add Ph'ed water?

is it ok to top off every other day.

They really don't take much water, it would seem difficult to top off every day.?

I don't get why they need to be topped off? the nute strength is still the same...

 

[Hydro-Soil]

isnt the water going to raise the Ph too much? Or do I add Ph'ed water?

Read my signature. Adding pH'd water does NOT get the best results from Lucas and Lucas himself states to use plain R/O water when topping off.

is it ok to top off every other day.

It's definitely not optimal. Will it work?... I guess, sure. Results will vary according to resevoir size.

They really don't take much water, it would seem difficult to top off every day.?

Modify your setup so that this is not an issue. 20 minutes or a few hours work, to make this super simple on you? Worth the time for sure.

I don't get why they need to be topped off? the nute strength is still the same...

Just do... don't question. Once you're in the swing of things, then start looking into the science behind 'why' it works so well.

Sorry for the delay... internet was down in the mountains for a few days.

Stay Safe!