Using IPA to fully purge BHO?

[DankTankUSA]

Before anything else I want to say that this idea is based largely on what I have learned from Gray Wolf and Jump in their posts on this and other forums as well as Gray Wolf's Skunk Pharm Research website (which is pretty much THE place for extraction info...)

I didn't see anyone else mention this but if someone else already has a thread on this then just delete this... otherwise....

OK I AM HIGH SO SKIP TILL IT SAYS "TEK" IF U WANT LOL

I have personally had difficulty maintaining consistency in my BHO extractions due in large part to purging techniques. I never end up with under-purged oils but I sometimes end up over-purging and losing terps and ending up with an oil that is darker than I prefer (though not black, just dark amber). I have noticed other people having this problem too on this forum as well as in the med community around me so I read basically everything I could find by Gray Wolf and Jump and this is what I came up with as an idea to simply everything and always end up with beautiful, purged oil...

TEK

Step 1: Blast your butane through your weed filled column/baster into pyrex dish sitting in 160-170 degree F water.

Step 2: After the butane evaporates take the pyrex dish out of the water and dissolve the unpurged BHO in 99% isopropyl alcohol.

Step 3: Decant IPA/BHO mixture into a container and put it in the freezer for 24-48 hours. The waxes that are extracted by butane will precipitate to the bottom of the container in the cold IPA. Usually BHO is winterized after being fully purged but I don't see why it can't be done this way instead.

Step 4: Decant cold IPA/BHO mixture through a funnel with a coffee filter into a pyrex dish sitting in hot (but not boiling) water or above a boiling pot (steam bath).

Step 5: Boil off the IPA. It boils lower than water so a hot water or steam bath will cause the IPA to boil and it will take with it all of the remaining butane because butane's boiling point is so much lower. All butane will be purged before the IPA is finished boiling off.

Step 6. Remove pyrex dish from hot water / steam bath and allow it to cool to the point where you like to collect your oil. I like to let mine get pretty hard and I scrape with a blade but I know other prefer more liquid oils.


I am gonna try this today (lol it is almost 5AM and I am just waiting to go get some tane) and take pics. The material I am using is NOT prime. It is trim and popcorn nugs that I already blasted once and got some beautiful amber oil using a standard purging method and then winterizing. So I will not be surprised if the resulting oil today is darker than today's oil (I will upload a pic of that later too). This is an experiment to see whether purging and winterizing BHO can be combined into a single step. I will judge whether it is successful if the resulting oil has no butane odor/taste/bubbles and by the look of the coffee filter after the winterizing step. If the oil appears and tastes devoid of tane and the coffee filter is caked with waxes like usual after winterizing I will consider it a success and repeat the experiment with prime starting material.

Anyone see any reason why this won't work out?

Pics to come...

 

[Gray Wolf]

Before anything else I want to say that this idea is based largely on what I have learned from Gray Wolf and Jump in their posts on this and other forums as well as Gray Wolf's Skunk Pharm Research website (which is pretty much THE place for extraction info...)

I didn't see anyone else mention this but if someone else already has a thread on this then just delete this... otherwise....

OK I AM HIGH SO SKIP TILL IT SAYS "TEK" IF U WANT LOL

I have personally had difficulty maintaining consistency in my BHO extractions due in large part to purging techniques. I never end up with under-purged oils but I sometimes end up over-purging and losing terps and ending up with an oil that is darker than I prefer (though not black, just dark amber). I have noticed other people having this problem too on this forum as well as in the med community around me so I read basically everything I could find by Gray Wolf and Jump and this is what I came up with as an idea to simply everything and always end up with beautiful, purged oil...

TEK

Step 1: Blast your butane through your weed filled column/baster into pyrex dish sitting in 160-170 degree F water.

Step 2: After the butane evaporates take the pyrex dish out of the water and dissolve the unpurged BHO in 99% isopropyl alcohol.

Step 3: Decant IPA/BHO mixture into a container and put it in the freezer for 24-48 hours. The waxes that are extracted by butane will precipitate to the bottom of the container in the cold IPA. Usually BHO is winterized after being fully purged but I don't see why it can't be done this way instead.

Step 4: Decant cold IPA/BHO mixture through a funnel with a coffee filter into a pyrex dish sitting in hot (but not boiling) water or above a boiling pot (steam bath).

Step 5: Boil off the IPA. It boils lower than water so a hot water or steam bath will cause the IPA to boil and it will take with it all of the remaining butane because butane's boiling point is so much lower. All butane will be purged before the IPA is finished boiling off.

Step 6. Remove pyrex dish from hot water / steam bath and allow it to cool to the point where you like to collect your oil. I like to let mine get pretty hard and I scrape with a blade but I know other prefer more liquid oils.


I am gonna try this today (lol it is almost 5AM and I am just waiting to go get some tane) and take pics. The material I am using is NOT prime. It is trim and popcorn nugs that I already blasted once and got some beautiful amber oil using a standard purging method and then winterizing. So I will not be surprised if the resulting oil today is darker than today's oil (I will upload a pic of that later too). This is an experiment to see whether purging and winterizing BHO can be combined into a single step. I will judge whether it is successful if the resulting oil has no butane odor/taste/bubbles and by the look of the coffee filter after the winterizing step. If the oil appears and tastes devoid of tane and the coffee filter is caked with waxes like usual after winterizing I will consider it a success and repeat the experiment with prime starting material.

Anyone see any reason why this won't work out?

Pics to come...

No reason that it shouldn't work. That is essentially how we do it using a single pass column and ethanol. The butane is visably gone, but not purged, when we add the ethanol for winterizing.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

would this produce a superior extract than if one just uses IPA and does a one pass with it?

are the terpenes preserved in the IPA, if they are present in the butane extract, moreso than just using IPA?

 

[Gray Wolf]

would this produce a superior extract than if one just uses IPA and does a one pass with it?

are the terpenes preserved in the IPA, if they are present in the butane extract, moreso than just using IPA?

Define superior?

IPA produces a more floral extract than BHO, because it is polar and miscible in water, while butane mostly isn't. It is also harsher, because of those floral terpenes, some of which are tasty, but hard on the lungs

I've found that the more I process the oil, the less floral it becomes. because the terpenes producing those floral flavors are primarily mono and Sequiterpenes, which are typically alcohols, ketones, aldehydes, ethers, and esters, that are pungent because they have high vapor pressure and lose molecules readily.

We get our absolute best flavor, without undue harshness, by vacuum purging BHO to -29.2 Hg, using only around 46C/115F temperature.

Our Absolute Amber done the same way is smoother, and has less floral undertones because many of the lighter terpenes left with the alcohol.

 

[pip313]

For purging butane, iso has water in it I'd add salt to the iso to make the water serperate, decant the iso then i'd dry the iso with damp rid. I hate water in the hash oil, it is a bit of a pain to remove. ( I don't like taking my oil past 70c to keep it a higher quality)

Also ethanol will do the same as iso, a little less toxic but I admit I had used methanol ethanol and iso, which ever I had handy.


Research qwiso.

 

[stonedstoner]

can you vacuum purge it after? or is it clean enough that it's not necessary?

 

[skullznroses]

I think it has something to do with the maturity of the buds in this oil business. My last batch of under grown MeKong made a much lighter oil then mature tree bud. I am sure this is only a partial consideration and all previous opinions are certainly still valid. I have purged my oils with lower grade alcohol and now I think this is my biggest mistake.

After a month of slow purging the oil still pops every few couple of days. But never crackle, it just oozes down into the nuggi

 

[Gray Wolf]

can you vacuum purge it after? or is it clean enough that it's not necessary?

You can purge it with or without vacuum. Vacuum makes it faster and allows you to do it a lower temperature.

 

[DankTankUSA]

Thanks for all the input everybody.

For purging butane, iso has water in it I'd add salt to the iso to make the water serperate, decant the iso then i'd dry the iso with damp rid. I hate water in the hash oil, it is a bit of a pain to remove. ( I don't like taking my oil past 70c to keep it a higher quality)

Also ethanol will do the same as iso, a little less toxic but I admit I had used methanol ethanol and iso, which ever I had handy.


Research qwiso.

I also worry about the water in the IPA. Even using 99% there is still a significant amount of water that will end up in the oil and I am not sure how to "purge" (dry?) it out of the oil bc I do not have a vacuum setup at the moment. Perhaps I should invest in one before trying... hmm...

As to drying the IPA with NaCl or another drying agent I am not sure that it would solve my problem since I am using 99% IPA already. Even if the salting of the IPA did allow me to have anhydrous IPA it is likely that there will be at least some salt in the IPA too since it is slightly soluble. Though it would probably be too little to be of any significance. Do you know if salting 99% IPA can get me all the way to anhydrous or is 99% as good as i'm likely to get?

I live in WA so the "everclear" sold here is only 151 proof which is wayyyy more water than I want to deal with. And the IPA is a lot less pricey.

Gray Wolf - I'm glad to hear that you use a similar procedure since that means it must work pretty well I was wondering though, if the BHO is dissolved in alcohol unpurged won't some of the plant waxes be dissolved within trapped butane? If so it wouldn't be removed by winterizing (unless the waxes are less soluble in butane at lower temps, IDK). Do you think the amount of waxes in the trapped butane is of any significant amount?

HMK - The idea was to eliminate the traditional "purging" step when making BHO by dissolving the unpurged extract in IPA. When the IPA is boiled off all the remaining butane is purged at the same time bc it boils at a much lower temp than the IPA. Plus this allows for the added step of winterizing midway through. I think it is better than a single wash in IPA because it starts with a non polar solvent so you don't pull as much chlorophyll and then the winterizing step gets rid of waxes pulled by the butane.

 

[avant gardener]

oh damn.
i just saw IPA and was expecting this thread to be about lagunitas, stone, and pliny.
pffft.

 

[G.O. Joe]

Don't assume that IPA or anything else of any concentration works as well for winterization as 95% ABV ethanol.

Salt does not dry 91% IPA, it only adds dissolved salt. 70% yes, again, adds salt.

 

[touringfunkband]

We get our absolute best flavor, without undue harshness, by vacuum purging BHO to -29.2 Hg, using only around 46C/115F temperature.

Just curious if your oil is molten at 115f and what you use as a heat source while in vacuum. How long do you vac for?

Thanks for the help!

 

[hammalamma]

TEK

Step 1: Blast your butane through your weed filled column/baster into pyrex dish sitting in 160-170 degree F water.

Step 2: After the butane evaporates take the pyrex dish out of the water and dissolve the unpurged BHO in 99% isopropyl alcohol.

Step 3: Decant IPA/BHO mixture into a container and put it in the freezer for 24-48 hours. The waxes that are extracted by butane will precipitate to the bottom of the container in the cold IPA. Usually BHO is winterized after being fully purged but I don't see why it can't be done this way instead.

Step 4: Decant cold IPA/BHO mixture through a funnel with a coffee filter into a pyrex dish sitting in hot (but not boiling) water or above a boiling pot (steam bath).

Step 5: Boil off the IPA. It boils lower than water so a hot water or steam bath will cause the IPA to boil and it will take with it all of the remaining butane because butane's boiling point is so much lower. All butane will be purged before the IPA is finished boiling off.

Step 6. Remove pyrex dish from hot water / steam bath and allow it to cool to the point where you like to collect your oil. I like to let mine get pretty hard and I scrape with a blade but I know other prefer more liquid oils.

Basically the same tech as this. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=168388
Nothing new, also the butane is gone as soon as you dissolve the bho into the alcohol.
Joe is right 95% ethanol is way better.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Just curious if your oil is molten at 115f and what you use as a heat source while in vacuum. How long do you vac for?

Thanks for the help!

It is actually not molten, just soft enough.

We user a small sparkless lab hot plate in a vacuum dessicator.

We pull a full vacuum on it and turn on the heat. It is done when the bubbling stops and the puddle turns clear, which happens in a few minutes once it starts.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Gray Wolf - I'm glad to hear that you use a similar procedure since that means it must work pretty well I was wondering though, if the BHO is dissolved in alcohol unpurged won't some of the plant waxes be dissolved within trapped butane? If so it wouldn't be removed by winterizing (unless the waxes are less soluble in butane at lower temps, IDK). Do you think the amount of waxes in the trapped butane is of any significant amount?

As has been noted, Ethanol works bunches better than Isopropyl for winterizing. We even clean up our Isopropyl extractions with Ethanol.

The residual butane is in parts per millionth at that point, and the dissolved waxes will be even lower.

 

[touringfunkband]

It is actually not molten, just soft enough.

We user a small sparkless lab hot plate in a vacuum dessicator.

We pull a full vacuum on it and turn on the heat. It is done when the bubbling stops and the puddle turns clear, which happens in a few minutes once it starts.

Interesting, as it seems like a lot of people vac for hours and hours. Isn't the hot plate in the vacuum almost unnecessary if your only vacing for a few minutes?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Interesting, as it seems like a lot of people vac for hours and hours. Isn't the hot plate in the vacuum almost unnecessary if your only vacing for a few minutes?

No, because without the heat, it has to be vacuumed for hours and hours.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Use baked epsom salts, mgso4, to desiccate the IPA.. Look up the procedure on the net, use a turkey baster to draw off anhydrous IPA for use off the top of the storage container while the salts have settled.. This will be anhydrous for use. Works with ETO, MEK, acetone and nonpolars etc.. Dehydrated solvents come in handy for cleaning up all sorts o' goodies

Regarding the heat and vac, heat and having a thin film helps. Whats working against you is the physics-defying viscosity of the oil and the fact that as solvent is evaporating is causing latent cooling of the oil (think fridge gas or blowing on hot coffee) and increasing that viscosity and trapping bubbles under and within the hard oil. A thin film spreads this out lessening the effect and adding warmth counteracts the cooling that occurs. My mates found vac'ing in a pyrex bowl worked well, with the bowl set in a pot of warm water. Warm not hot like 50 degrees C or arounds like GW said was best for terpenes.

 

[DankTankUSA]

Well it has become pretty obvious to me that the only difference in the procedure I posted and the ones that have been used successfully for a long time by all of you guys who responded is that I am using an inferior solvent for the winterizing step (the IPA as opposed to ETOH).

Unfortunately, I live in WA and the highest percent ethanol that I have access to is 151 proof grain alcohol (not rum). I feel as though 99% IPA is a better choice for winterizing my BHO than the ethanol that I have access to because of the high water content (24%) of the 151 grain alcohol. However, I am not certain about this because I am relatively new to the world of concentrates. Do any of you guys with more experience know whether this is correct? Or is 75% ethanol better to use for winterizing BHO than 99% IPA?

G.O. Joe - I also was under the impression that adding salt to IPA would not help to "dry it" but when I read pip313's post in this thread where he suggested salting out the IPA I looked it up and according to wikipedia:
"Unlike ethanol or methanol, isopropyl alcohol can be separated from aqueous solutions by adding a salt such as sodium chloride, sodium sulfate, or any of several other inorganic salts, since the alcohol is much less soluble in saline solutions than in salt-free water. The process is colloquially called salting out, and causes concentrated isopropyl alcohol to separate into a distinct layer."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol

So salting out IPA does seem to be possible but since I already use 99% it doesn't seem worth it in my case.

Gray Wolf -

As has been noted, Ethanol works bunches better than Isopropyl for winterizing. We even clean up our Isopropyl extractions with Ethanol.

I probably just missed something but if you wouldn't mind indulging me I am still unclear on why ETOH works better for winterizing than IPA. My understanding is that butane and other non polar solvents extract plant waxes and fats that can be removed by redissolving the BHO in a polar solvent and putting it in the freezer for a day or two until the waxes and fats precipitate out of the polar solvent and can be then removed by filtration. I get a lot of my information about extractions from your Skunk Pharm website and in the "Polishing Extracts" section about winterizing it says:

Even though Ethanol is polar itself, it can still be used to remove some of the undesirables they pick up, because it is not as aggressive a solvent as Isopropyl and Methanol. By re-dissolving their extracts in hot ethanol and then placing that in the freezer overnight, some of the undesirables will precipitate out and may be filtered out.

http://skunkpharmresearch.com/getting-the-green-and-waxes-out-afterwards/

This makes perfect sense for cleaning up an IPA or methanol extraction but what makes ETOH better for winterizing an extract made with a non polar solvent? Are the waxes and fats soluble in the cold IPA? Is that what you mean by IPA being a more aggressive solvent than ETOH?

Hammalamma - Thanks for posting that link, I've actually read that thread (and most anything i can find written by jump!) but somehow it must have slipped my mind... too many oil dabs I guess I apologize for not paying better attention.

Maryjaneismyfre-

Dehydrated solvents come in handy for cleaning up all sorts o' goodies

QFA

 

[Gray Wolf]

Unfortunately, I live in WA and the highest percent ethanol that I have access to is 151 proof grain alcohol (not rum).

Gray Wolf -


I probably just missed something but if you wouldn't mind indulging me I am still unclear on why ETOH works better for winterizing than IPA.

A trip across your southern border will get you 190 proof, but another option that will work, is build a compound refluxing still and concentrate the lower potency alcohols. I will design an post plans for one.

It takes about three minutes for Ethanol to strip the same amount of material from a plant that Iso or Methanol will strip in about 30 seconds.

If you redissolve a QWISO or QWME extract in Ethanol, not all of it will redissove, because some the constituets are more soluble in Iso or Methanol than Ethanol.