bobblehead overtakes

[ashesashes]

I ran Blumats for 2 years.

It was never clockwork.

It worked, but it was never idiot proof.

Way better than hand watering--there's only so many hours in the day.

But they are not a 'set and forget' solution. Once your floor is wet, it can be very challenging to identify which probe is misbehaving. And I'm not talking about hundreds of probes here.

If you are a killer grower, and are in your garden every day, okay, they are really nice tech.

But cleaning the floor to dry, and then waiting to see where the problem is coming from can eat up your life. Some people got shit to do, son.

If you need to walk for a day or three, expect to see the one probe that has never caused you problems fuck the fuck up and piss a few gallons of RO nutes all over the place.

Hell, don't touch it, and it goes back to normal.

[REALLY: Blumats are a killer system. Clean nutes, even back pressure, full carrots, and they really shouldn't fail. But that's not reality. If your RO filter starts to clog, and your top off starts to lag, all fucking hell can break loose. "Don't let your RO filter clog," you say... good fucking advice. But reality just isn't like that. Are you testing your RO in and out to see what's going on? I am now, but I didn't always. Shit... I didn't realize how quickly a filter can go from keeping up to no more water. Until it did it three times. You can work around these issues, but there are other ways that are simpler, easier to back up, that don't cause these problems. DTW on pumps, with two timers and two pumps seems like a good example. I love Blutmats, but I have to be there every day.]

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I think what you want to know silver is that about 1/2 cubic foot is about 4 gallons.

 

[silver hawaiian]

Meh. It's a matter of doing it right the first time, or paying attention and tweaking it..

Once they're dialed in, you're close to set-and-forget.. Ultimately, it all comes down to user error.

The only times I've ever had overflows are after I've been muckin' with 'em, after they've been set..

IME, much worth the attention, when done right..

 

[ashesashes]

If you can grow, they are a god-send.

You can run perpetual, and let the plants dictate the feed.

If you build for someone else, and they cannot see and understand what is happening on a daily basis and deal with that, then

"user error"

will follow.

I can run a blumat run effortlessly. I loose a gallon here or there to negligence. And nothing really matters.

But if you can't read media, and plant displays, good fucking luck.

Silver knows what he is doing, and it gets done. No doubt.

But if you build for noobs... or idiots...

I'm saying that Blumats are not idiot proof.

 

[ashesashes]

Ah, timing was off on our posts... I was responding above your #886.

In my experience, you can run extremely productive gardens of Blumats.

But if I'm not there every day, the yields drop by 50%.

So I say that it is not a-set-and-forget. And if you build for someone else, and are trying to make an 'idiot proof' system, Blumats are not it.

If you can grow, Blumats are a brilliant offering.

But there are better approaches for idiot growers.

 

[AOD2012]

Pretty sure leaving a grow for 30 days at a clip is not gonna get you good product. Always exceptions, but too much can go wrong in that amount of time.

Hope everything goes good bobble, never got the blumats myself, really like the pumps and DTW. I could not get each level of the stadium to feed consistently, was a pain in the ass. Just going to get a pump for each level.


Keep it green homey.



aod

 

[ashesashes]

really like the pumps and DTW

Set and forget.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

I haven't experienced the same thing as ashes..blumats are about as idiot proof as growing gets. I'd wager to say that blumats can make an idiot a successful grower more so then any other method..hand watering included.

I set my blumats once and never mess with them again (drench/dial to cling + 1 arrow). I've had maybe 2-3 dry up over the course of several years running them non-stop.. in several locations.. maybe had one run-off. A soaked/filled blumat on stand by makes this a quick fix.

I've set up brand new growers with blumats on coco using 6/9 head recipe. They pull down beautiful crops every run.. and have no idea what they are really doing. They follow simple instructions..and top up and mix nutes.

Shit.. I know girls running blumats. In the past I've initally set up blumats with mixed reservoirs not to return for 2 weeks.... call me if the water gets below this level.. otherwise dont touch a thing.

Aside from the lower strip/ trellis there is nothing else to do.
Good crops are damn near guaranteed if environment is handled. My only troubles in gardens anymore are due to hotter temps or high humidity.


Maybe I'm just lucky....

The ebb&gros I've ran before going blumat where pretty hands off, but a failure leads to entire crop damage. Controller bucket pump failure has left me with drowned plants before..entire crop screwed. With blumats if one dries up..silica would keep em good..and if watered again they'll likely suffer little loss. I've never had a plant straight up die on blumats.. the few that have dried up have let me know by going limp so they got handwatered and re-setup. Sure.. if I was out for a while it would have been a dead plant.. but thats better then a dead garden due to a feed pump failure or timer failure in a top feed or flood setup.



With the proper systems in place gardens garden themselves.

 

[prowler]

Hi ya!

A good way to point out the bad apple from all of those blumats is to use larger catchers under pots. I used 7l pots with empty candy boxes under catching possible runoff. They were clear plastic and about half the height of a 7l pot. This way i can see at a glance which blumat is giving too much and lifting the pots would tell me which too little.

When using blumats a minor error in adjustments can cause awful lot of headache. To all you blumat guys: Take your time when adjusting them. No shortcuts here.

 

[ashesashes]

I haven't experienced the same thing as ashes..blumats are about as idiot proof as growing gets.

DTW on trays may well be more idiot proof than Blumats, provided you have enough feed solution in bulk.

I've set up brand new growers with blumats on coco using 6/9 head recipe. They pull down beautiful crops every run.. and have no idea what they are really doing. They follow simple instructions..and top up and mix nutes.

As I said, I ran them for 2 years with happy results. My instructions to the noobs were the same: Put in even amounts of this and this until the reservoir reads almost this number.

To be fair, there was "user error" involved, when 'unaproved' additives were used ("It said it was a bloom enhancer"), generating precipitants and slimeing the lines. And this cholesterol breaks of and clots the rest of the system...

But that's part of what I mean. If an User Error can cause regular maintenance requirements, it's not as easy as it needs to be for an idiot-proof garden. What if an accidental mix causes precipitants, rather than stupidity? It's still a problem.

Head's in coco with blumats is just about as idiot proof as blumats can get. And I'm glad you've got folks can follow instructions like "mix this into that, and put it here, and that's all."

 

[bobblehead]

Wow.....All those cones shoulda been dialed down to a cling before headin home Bro......and.....coulda been the different levels of gravity fed pressure fuckin witchas but....dunno..

You`re better than this my buddy......Wishin all things fall in place for yas.....

Peace...Freds........

I don't blame anyone but myself... I mean nobody else has been there, so it must have been me... What happened is the pot was too dry, so I left the blumat open, and I must have forgot to tighten it down... Chalk it up to doing too many things at once. It won't happen again.

Just an FYI for everyone, I haven't had problems specifically related to the height of the pot with the elevated 55g drum. Now that the blumats are dialed to a cling, the plants are looking better.

I will tell you a few things:

1. That is hateful.

2. I'm sorry.

3. I love the gutter concept, esp in rows, with DTW or a potential for W (or runoff, as us dirty guys call it)

4. I really like #3.


Bobble, you're a smart guy. Especially with the plant and the roots and the whatnots. Let's pretend that spacing was equal..

If a guy wanted to replicate 4-5 gallons of dirt in a pot, but instead in a gutter (or similar linear-sort of setup, where the container isn't a cylinder beneath the plant, but more a rectangle beneath it), ..

Is that an equal return on root-investment? Not sure how to articulate it beyond this point, but.. Y'dig?

Did your wife tell you that my statement was hateful? There are users and there are providers in this world... I'm a provider, and I don't like being taken advantage of. That is all.

I think soil beds are great... and actually you can get more bang for your buck b/c the roots THINK they have more room to grow... I don't plan on using the posts for soil beds though. I'm supposed to have 5" net pots, but they're lost in the mail. With SP's and net pots, the roots just keep growing anyway... and there's some water that gets trapped in the posts for them to suck on.

Bobble..so sorry with the new troubles my brother....I had no idea, sorry for being a little "snarky" in my thread. I 've been busy traveling up and down the state for TOp NOtch DNA/Strains, then taking cut's and getting my outdoor thing ready before I leave, cuz onvce I do it's all up to gro-bro and I think your like me..NOONE takes care of your shit like YOU do.

Wish I had time to fly out their and help you bro but I gotta jump in the truck and make some serious money!

lol no need to apologize broski... I can take it just as well as I dish it out. Make that paper son!

I ran Blumats for 2 years.

It was never clockwork.

It worked, but it was never idiot proof.

Way better than hand watering--there's only so many hours in the day.

But they are not a 'set and forget' solution. Once your floor is wet, it can be very challenging to identify which probe is misbehaving. And I'm not talking about hundreds of probes here.

If you are a killer grower, and are in your garden every day, okay, they are really nice tech.

But cleaning the floor to dry, and then waiting to see where the problem is coming from can eat up your life. Some people got shit to do, son.

If you need to walk for a day or three, expect to see the one probe that has never caused you problems fuck the fuck up and piss a few gallons of RO nutes all over the place.

Hell, don't touch it, and it goes back to normal.

[REALLY: Blumats are a killer system. Clean nutes, even back pressure, full carrots, and they really shouldn't fail. But that's not reality. If your RO filter starts to clog, and your top off starts to lag, all fucking hell can break loose. "Don't let your RO filter clog," you say... good fucking advice. But reality just isn't like that. Are you testing your RO in and out to see what's going on? I am now, but I didn't always. Shit... I didn't realize how quickly a filter can go from keeping up to no more water. Until it did it three times. You can work around these issues, but there are other ways that are simpler, easier to back up, that don't cause these problems. DTW on pumps, with two timers and two pumps seems like a good example. I love Blutmats, but I have to be there every day.]

These are my thoughts exactly... Blumats are great, I not trying to knock them... But there is a learning curve, and even then that 3mm tubing causes trouble... I've never had 1/2" tubing get clogged. I'm constantly reading about guys sticking with flood tables and horizontal lights cause it's easy. I'm just strapping the flood table to the walls so I can keep my lights vertical. It would be foolish of me to put all of my eggs in the blumat basket.

Meh. It's a matter of doing it right the first time, or paying attention and tweaking it..

Once they're dialed in, you're close to set-and-forget.. Ultimately, it all comes down to user error.

The only times I've ever had overflows are after I've been muckin' with 'em, after they've been set..

IME, much worth the attention, when done right..

ok bro... lol... How often do you do things right the first time? Really?

With F&D or DTW, it's pretty easy to get it right the first time. No tweaking on the fly necessary.

^ Sorry.....all of the above is unacceptable to me. Design flaws are not to be blamed on "user error", and "close" to set and forget is not set and forget. If there was a product out there on the market which truly was set and forget....would you still be here defending the Blumats? Bobblehead is no idiot IMO. It's the design that is at fault here, not him.

See, the problem I have with what you stated is this:

Why should I have to adjust or "deal with" a damn thing on a daily basis, if this is truly an automated system? From what I'm seeing, it's more like "automated" with an asterisk** i.e. "automated" as long as you keep a close eye on it and fuck with it and worry about it constantly. That doesn't fit my definition of the word at all. My idea of automated is I leave for 30 days on a whim, with no special preparations, and without losing a second's sleep worrying something might go wrong.

Thanks for the compliment buddy... but if you're looking for a system that can run itself for 30 days, you might want to find a new hobby... Cause that shit aint happenin. You still have to add/adjust nutrients, and prune the plants... Catch the malfunctioning equipment before shit gets crazy...

As for pressurized lines... I have elevated 55g drums. That's a lot of pressure.

This was in my thread earlier: Automation is the lazy gardener's worst enemy... You've still gotta be on top of your shit.

 

[bobblehead]

Pretty sure leaving a grow for 30 days at a clip is not gonna get you good product. Always exceptions, but too much can go wrong in that amount of time.

Hope everything goes good bobble, never got the blumats myself, really like the pumps and DTW. I could not get each level of the stadium to feed consistently, was a pain in the ass. Just going to get a pump for each level.


Keep it green homey.



aod

Sorry to hear about your troubles with the feeds on multiple levels bro... IDK what wasn't working for you... but if the shelves aren't level, then you're not going to get the same pressure throughout. I had to make adjustments for that myself. Anyway, you've gotta do what works for you...

Thanks for dropping in... Hope all is going well for you.

I haven't experienced the same thing as ashes..blumats are about as idiot proof as growing gets. I'd wager to say that blumats can make an idiot a successful grower more so then any other method..hand watering included.

I set my blumats once and never mess with them again (drench/dial to cling + 1 arrow). I've had maybe 2-3 dry up over the course of several years running them non-stop.. in several locations.. maybe had one run-off. A soaked/filled blumat on stand by makes this a quick fix.

I've set up brand new growers with blumats on coco using 6/9 head recipe. They pull down beautiful crops every run.. and have no idea what they are really doing. They follow simple instructions..and top up and mix nutes.

Shit.. I know girls running blumats. In the past I've initally set up blumats with mixed reservoirs not to return for 2 weeks.... call me if the water gets below this level.. otherwise dont touch a thing.

Aside from the lower strip/ trellis there is nothing else to do.
Good crops are damn near guaranteed if environment is handled. My only troubles in gardens anymore are due to hotter temps or high humidity.


Maybe I'm just lucky....

The ebb&gros I've ran before going blumat where pretty hands off, but a failure leads to entire crop damage. Controller bucket pump failure has left me with drowned plants before..entire crop screwed. With blumats if one dries up..silica would keep em good..and if watered again they'll likely suffer little loss. I've never had a plant straight up die on blumats.. the few that have dried up have let me know by going limp so they got handwatered and re-setup. Sure.. if I was out for a while it would have been a dead plant.. but thats better then a dead garden due to a feed pump failure or timer failure in a top feed or flood setup.



With the proper systems in place gardens garden themselves.

I agree I haven't lost a plant to blumat failure... but so far I'm not getting the growth I had when I fed my plants DTW. I know the potential is there, but I'm still learning to dial in those cones... That's the thing about F&D and DTW, you don't have to dial in anything.. You just throw water at the plants.

I've found that for me anyway, I adjust the cone to drip slowly, and then with a super light touch, I tighten it down to cling to that very last drop. If I go past that point, the pot stays too dry. I need my pots wet and heavy, but not dripping wet... and finding that perfect level of moisture isn't easy.

Hi ya!

A good way to point out the bad apple from all of those blumats is to use larger catchers under pots. I used 7l pots with empty candy boxes under catching possible runoff. They were clear plastic and about half the height of a 7l pot. This way i can see at a glance which blumat is giving too much and lifting the pots would tell me which too little.

When using blumats a minor error in adjustments can cause awful lot of headache. To all you blumat guys: Take your time when adjusting them. No shortcuts here.

Large saucers would be nice, but I'm trying to water plants in the air... I can see if they have too much water b/c they'll be dripping... Too little water and the pot feels dry. Just right, and the pot is wet with no drips.

 

[silver hawaiian]

Did your wife tell you that my statement was hateful? There are users and there are providers in this world... I'm a provider, and I don't like being taken advantage of. That is all.

I'm so confused. I meant the leak city was hateful, .. I think I missed the being taken advantage of part..? I was a little :friends: last night, so maybe I oughtta go do some re-readin'..

 

[bobblehead]

Nonsense.... my industrial process for the automated production of cannabis will one day earn me billions. Designing an electronic water/fertilization monitoring and control system is only a small part of the task that lies before me. That's the only real concern other than pest control, which can be accomplished with predators.

lol... Don't forget to make it so that anyone can use your system, so you can at least profit from all the time it's going to take you to develop said system...

I'm so confused. I meant the leak city was hateful, .. I think I missed the being taken advantage of part..? I was a little :friends: last night, so maybe I oughtta go do some re-readin'..

lol... I thought you were referring to "bitches be trippin" I figured you'd know all about bitches trippin.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

lol... I thought you were referring to "bitches be trippin" I figured you'd know all about bitches trippin.

If this is what is happening you better watch your stash.

 

[DHF]

^ Sorry.....all of the above is unacceptable to me. Design flaws are not to be blamed on "user error", and "close" to set and forget is not set and forget. If there was a product out there on the market which truly was set and forget....would you still be here defending the Blumats? Bobblehead is no idiot IMO. It's the design that is at fault here, not him.

The only idiot I see kissin ass and makin excuses is you Growyourboat , and I wouldn`t run a setup designed by you for all the money on God`s green earth cuz you have no clue what it takes for "set it and forget it" systems simply from what I`ve seen you post in several threads.......

You`re a follower and will NEVER be a Lead Dawg by any means , and comin over here goober smoochin Bobbles won`t gain you any notoriety in Vert-ville regardless of what`s acceptable to you or not....

Bobbles KNOWS it`s operator error BUT he`s workin on elevated levels that take even MORE tweakin and dialin before things hoon and produce accordingly and he knows it...and...

You askin if his feed setup is pressurized just exudes more of your ignorance on said system/setup.....

Ashes.....I`ve preached from the GET that plant saucers are NEEDED under each container for constant monitoring till each cone/plant is dialed and hoonin and THEN it`s set it and forget it..and....

Your setup should NEVER depend on R/O filters cloggin up or any other aspect tied to the feed setup cuz all that should be separate from the get with independent rez`s fed by pumps and float valves toppin off etc. etc....My 2 cents from all those yrs....

Believe me....I know WAAAAAY too many folks killin it with Blumats ,Coco , and smartpots to be bothered with your negative input just for recognition`s basis GYB.....Sheesh....

Go build/Design your so-called automated bullshit and TRY to put it on the market for your BILLION`S in profit , but I assure you that NOTHIN`S new under the sun and it`s already been done by some OTHER idiot tryin ta capitalize on stoner`s laziness all the way to the bank.....Now....

I`ll be the first to say that Bobbles is no fuckin idiot cuz He learned from the best there is , but....When you blaze trails as "Innovators instead of Imitators" as Bobbles has done , there`s hiccups and hurdles to overcome before dialage occurs with elevated levels of plants and lights....

Not to mention he`s 3 hrs away from his setup compared to most stoners growin in their bedrooms where they live waitin for LEO to come take everything they have and then some....so....

I`ll calm down and apologize to Bobbles for my lil rant cuz he knows me and what I`m about , but you....

Best not cause too much confrontation in this forum cuz it`s counterproductive to folks learnin how to dial shit.....and...

I`m inclined to agree with Bobbles that DTW might be the best feed setup for his racks cuz that`s how I did it with mine , but we talked about the possibility of blumat`s bein problematic on elevated levels before he ever made the plunge and up till now he`s had nothin but praise for em so......guaranteed....

I stand behind Blumats 1000% and have 100`s of growbro`s that`ll do the same.....bet on it....and to finalize.....

PLANT SAUCERS under yo bitches till the cones are dialed in and hoonin....simple....babyshit....

Some folks.......Nothin comes free , and set it and forget it is a concept best left to those that grasp what it actually entails to attain such ease of plant management...Aight....

Nuff outta my old ass this day....Hell....Now I`ve gotta go medicate again....Growyourboat....Step off or gain some respect....or....

Go somewhere someone cares about your bullshit cuz it`s not here I assure yas.....

Peace....DHF.........

 

[silver hawaiian]

^ Sorry.....all of the above is unacceptable to me. Design flaws are not to be blamed on "user error", and "close" to set and forget is not set and forget. If there was a product out there on the market which truly was set and forget....would you still be here defending the Blumats? Bobblehead is no idiot IMO. It's the design that is at fault here, not him.

Maybe we have two different visions for what we expect out of the blumats..

"Set and forget" is relative here, .. As others have said, if your plan is to leave the grow for stretches of 30 days, then you're rolling the dice..

What do the blumats do? They reduce the amount of time you have to spend in the garden. They liberate you from the need to come and hand water at regular intervals..

Like any piece of equipment (fans, timers, controllers, etc.), of course it has to be set up right. I've seen experienced growers say, mid-flowering, "Oh shit, I didn't realize one of the pins on my timer was "on" during the dark cycle." I've also seen experienced growers say, mid-flowering, "Oh shit, I didn't realize the ballast was set at 600W and not 1000W."

So should we begin making statements that timers and ballasts are unacceptable, because they require a modicum of attention from the user?

I'm not here to defend or promote any particular product. Instead I'm sharing my experience. That's all. Pretty straight-forward. In fact, I'm fairly certain I used the qualifier "IME" in my post, which means "in my experience."

 

[silver hawaiian]

^ Sorry.....all of the above is unacceptable to me. Design flaws are not to be blamed on "user error", and "close" to set and forget is not set and forget. If there was a product out there on the market which truly was set and forget....would you still be here defending the Blumats? Bobblehead is no idiot IMO. It's the design that is at fault here, not him.

After reading all of your woefully insightful posts here, gyb, where's your experience? Where are your photos? Where are your runs? Where's your automation experience? Where's your anything?

Like DHF said, this place is a wonderful learning community, .. ...With the right folks and their right attitudes. Not everyone.

 

[silver hawaiian]

I think what you want to know silver is that about 1/2 cubic foot is about 4 gallons.

Durr - what a better way to think about it. So if we're talking in a linear/rectangular sort of shape.. That's about 6" x 6" x 12", right?

Me no rikey the maff

 

[silver hawaiian]

See, the problem I have with what you stated is this:



Why should I have to adjust or "deal with" a damn thing on a daily basis, if this is truly an automated system? From what I'm seeing, it's more like "automated" with an asterisk** i.e. "automated" as long as you keep a close eye on it and fuck with it and worry about it constantly. That doesn't fit my definition of the word at all. My idea of automated is I leave for 30 days on a whim, with no special preparations, and without losing a second's sleep worrying something might go wrong.

Jesus christ, I think I'm going to triple my post count from today's replies in this thread alone.

gyb, I've got thee perfect scenario for you in which you can "leave for 30 days on a whim, with no special preparations, with losing a second's sleep.."

Are you ready for it?

Just go buy a bag. And give up growing, and if you've not even started (which I have a feeling may be the case), then don't ever bother to start.

That's as automated as you can get, because when you grow, despite the misnomer of "automation," you have to do all sorts of other pesky bullshit, like mix & prepare media, plant seeds, take cuts, trim, cure, process.

But the good news is that they've come up with an automated way to ensure you'll never have to worry about those pesky details anymore: It's called the dispensary or the weedman.

Really, it's a great system. It ensures that you have no hands-on with the plant, and thus no experience with or reference [read: appreciation] for the plant. It's perfect in that it keeps you free from having to actually work, spend time with, and get to know the plants.

Instead, you can rush right to the end of the line, where you may even be lucky enough to [automatically] get a bag of weed which, if you're lucky, won't be full of powdery mildew, mites of several varieties, it'll be good'n flushed, no chem taste, ..

Really, it's that easy!