Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[prowler]

Things have been going great, the plants couldn't look any healthier. They have finally bounced back from defoilation & topping.

My mate is kind of mad I topped so early as he said they haven't grown much taller since because of it. They have realistically probably grown about 6" in the last two weeks, which is slow. They should start getting taller soon right?

I assume defoliating & topping stunts their growth a bit right? But it should dramatically increase yields, so I say it's worth it. I want to top them again so I have 4 tops total, when would you suggest this?

Here are some new pics, as you can see they have really grown in since defoilation.

When do you think they are ready for a 2nd round of defoilation?

Do not top in vertical setup. You want em to stretch - topping isn't helping. Supercropping does wonders. Topping sideways helps too (cut sideshoots for bushier sideways growth). Leave the main top alone in vertical. Hate to say but your buddy was right on topping.

You need to raise your lamp too. Keep it over the tops to the end of stretch (2-4 weeks after flipping 12/12). Otherwise your plants will not stretch enough.

And then...Your mate? Ditch him/her. Do it always on your own. So called mates do not help you on your path. They're always bitchin' what you should or shouldn't do and every single grower in here tells you that finding your own way is the only way - not your mates way. If you need advice - go ahead and ask but letting someone too close to your grow leads always to trouble. You need to tell him/her that you appreciate what he/she has done for you and will reward him/her for the effort but this is something that you need to do on your own - if you head towards troubles you will ask for help and so on... Trust me on this. Do it now.

 

[AcesBasis]

Hi guys,
This is my first post on this awesome site, it truly is the best for MJ cultivation IMO. As I have followed this thread for a while and have been defoliating in Veg i thought I would ask for some advise. Also this is my first time and I have invested serious time energy and coin in trying to make It worth while and also for some personal smoke... Mmmm
My growing conditions are pretty optimum as far as I consider, good ventilation and extraction, lots of light 3kw cool tubes w' digitals and not too bad temps all round day or night. Good nute line and also using additives which has really made them get healthy as. Veged for 6 Weeks on the nose and defoliated a little early but then properly for week 4 5 6. The last defol was a heavy one so I let them recover 2-3 days before I flipped. Been on 12/12 for 5 days now and they have really bushed back up. There are plenty of lower bud sites just under the screen coming of main thick branches from the defoliatig but these newer shoots are being shaded and not receiving light due to too much smothering of leaf. They still have not stretched all the way yet as had the light real close but I have moved em up today, Also as this is a first time thing and I do not know the strains characteristics as I bought them as clones So I don't want to stress them too much now during initial stretch as the lower side branches are getting bigger but are still about 10cm below the screen with the top branches about the same length past the top perhaps a little less.

So my Question is when should I get rid of some of the big fans and generally clean up the plant so I can still get maximum yield and utilize the growing area..

I was thinking to let them go for another 3 or 4 days, pluck again solidly over 2 nights and then let them recover 1-2 days and then give them the quick turn Followed by the first lot of flowering nute Koolbloom or some other potash. Then defol as needed but not too much in late flower. I REALLY don't want to stress them out too much and they Hermy up on me..

Help me out guys PLEASE as its my first time at this.

 

[AcesBasis]

I hope my last post went up as I spent ages typing the bloody thing....!!!

 

[AcesBasis]

Obvoisly it didn't do hear goes the quick version.
1st Time Grow, good if not better than good set up IMO. Digital Ballasts w' cool tubes 600w 1 per plant bought as 1 week clones so not sure of strain.
No real issues and have grown quite healthy branchy specimens. Decided on a Scrog set up as my choice of arsenal and defoliated lightly at the beginning but then heavier in week 4,5,6 of veg.

Flipped them to 12/12 5 days ago and since then they have grown back bushier than ever. Have still got more to Strech as I had the lights very close but raised them tonight. Because the last defol in veg was quite aggressive I let them recover 1-2 days prior to switching and now there are new shoots coming up below the screen but way too crowded and shaded in there as the plants are quite big..

So the BIG Question is ???? When to do my next defol without affecting stretch and stress levels now I have kicked to flower.

Am still running Veg Nutes with half a barrel left about another 2-3 nights of feeding as I'm running 50L pots RTW in Coco. Was going to leave for another 3 nights then apply the quick turn solution a&b over two days then start with the Potash fertz for bloom..

Help guys this is my first time and have invested a lot of hard work TIME reading learning etc Nd really want to hit some magic numbers...

Some pics

 

[AcesBasis]

Cheers guys Love ic mag site as its truly the best source around. Also credits to K33f great thread its good to see others sharing there experiences for us Newbies...!!

Happy times to all..

Ps I don't want to take out too much lower growth under the screen as the lower branches have also grown quite large and have the potential to yield a fair bit if they get to see some better light plus that would amount for 80% of my plant growth. Put the screen in a bit late..

Peace out

 

[sneaky101]

From my experience, all the undergrowth should be culled out. It will make your top colas weigh less due to energy going under the screen for nug production. And all that growth underneath will be fluff without much quality...but live and learn I guess. Like you, I didn't want to trim those "primo" lower branches for the same reason. But now I know. Good luck, it's looking very nice.

 

[prowler]

AcesBasis: Don't let those fat tops grow through the screen yet. Search for supercrop and twist them back under the net. Otherwise they will dominate the height from tops to lamp. The more even canopy = more efficient your scrog will be.

Defoil again after the strech (~3 weeks in flower)! Not in the middle of it. Important. It's relatively easy to spot when the stretch is complete. Trust your insticts.

 

[GetUpStandUp]

Dude if someone runs to their cab and just starts doing shite, exspecially doing what you said just stripping all the leaves, then I have a old football helmet he can wear around so he doesnt hurt himself in public. If you do such a thing, not only did you not read this mans thread, but science, or anything on any thread cant teach you crap, your special, as in not capible of even responding.

I mean lets all face it we have no face to face here, so already the problems lies at this way before any issue here, arguing, and bickering will only go down in history on this thread as what it will be to those who read it in the future, but for this method, as I have YET to try it, but I will, need no pictures, or others opinions all needed for me is posing the question if it will be benifical and if it works, I try everything, as it teaches you failure, or proven, the fact someone says anything for proof say tons about your own education in a public arena.

I am far from pro, and matter of fact with High brix methods of growing their are way more than science in just nature, and this is still being studied with far far greater results than any traditional growing methods, so to say you re a pro would only mean you stopped learning, as plants teach us more than any human can! Point being, I will try it myself, and believe in myself, and add to my weaponry of knowledge! Nice work regardless of how things are said, sometimes ppl forget we are not perfect, and it cool to be wrong, lets practice love, roll one up and grow in mind, and garden, peace!

 

[GetUpStandUp]

Dude if someone runs to their cab and just starts doing shite, exspecially doing what you said just stripping all the leaves, then I have a old football helmet he can wear around so he doesnt hurt himself in public. If you do such a thing, not only did you not read this mans thread, but science, or anything on any thread cant teach you crap, your special, as in not capible of even responding.

I mean lets all face it we have no face to face here, so already the problems lies at this way before any issue here, arguing, and bickering will only go down in history on this thread as what it will be to those who read it in the future, but for this method, as I have YET to try it, but I will, need no pictures, or others opinions all needed for me is posing the question if it will be benifical and if it works, I try everything, as it teaches you failure, or proven, the fact someone says anything for proof say tons about your own education in a public arena.

I am far from pro, and matter of fact with High brix methods of growing their are way more than science in just nature, and this is still being studied with far far greater results than any traditional growing methods, so to say you re a pro would only mean you stopped learning, as plants teach us more than any human can! Point being, I will try it myself, and believe in myself, and add to my weaponry of knowledge! Nice work regardless of how things are said, sometimes ppl forget we are not perfect, and its cool to be wrong, lets practice love, roll one up and grow in mind, and garden, peace!

 

[stihgnobevoli]

should i defoliate this? something tells me maybe, but something else says no since my g13 is pretty bushy also and it does fine without me doing anything but remove the dead undergrowth as it dies from lack of light.

 

[disciple]

 

[stihgnobevoli]

nah, thats just how she grows since the beginning. this is week 2, i pruned a week ago because she was too tall, then i had to tie her down. the burns on the leaves are from the new 100mh i added to the 70w i had in there already. got real bushy on me after the flowers started im thinking maybe i should defoliate the lower main branches and leave the tertiary layer? ill get a better picture tomorrow when the lights come on. this picture is like 4 days old.

this is like 6 weeks veg before i put it into flower, so like 3 weeks ago.

her and her cousin week 1.

 

[magiccannabus]

What about just trimming the ends off the leaves like you do in cloning? As sort of a compromise?

 

[marmarb]

i take all fan leaves off after first week of flower than again every two weeks after and it deff helps me yield more

 

[Infinitesimal]

EDIT: ha.... i commented on this post from a year and a half ago! lol I was super tired last night on auto pilot i guess.

Some of the best threads on the site are side by sides!

205w LED vs 400w HID Let the battle begin!

Air cooled reflector testing with Digital footcandle meter

Between Sun and Moon HPS/LED comparison grow.

and many many more...

i really dont care about defoliation.

I do care that it appears ICMAG is endorsing this technique by making it a sticky without any scientific evidence to support it..

and by this logic cannabis isnt a medicine because is hasn't gone through a double blind case study, because the government won't do a double blind study with medical grade cannabis without any scientific evidence to support cannabis' efficacy at treating medical conditions ( so with no evidence, due the lack of trials, we should't do any trials?) thats smart "I love the status quo"

peace,
Infi

 

[AcesBasis]

AcesBasis: Don't let those fat tops grow through the screen yet. Search for supercrop and twist them back under the net. Otherwise they will dominate the height from tops to lamp. The more even canopy = more efficient your scrog will be.

Defoil again after the strech (~3 weeks in flower)! Not in the middle of it. Important. It's relatively easy to spot when the stretch is complete. Trust your insticts.

Thanks for the advice, also should I trim lower spindly branches below the screen and remove unnecessary growth after defoliating or shld I leave them also to flower below the screen..? Will keep training to fill the screen during stretch for now and no defol just tucking.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

clearer pictures which hopefully show enough of the skeleton for you to advise me.

 

[grassott's dad]

There is a right way and wrong way of doing everything in life. My mate's just defoliated... the wrong way!...

Pic taken a few days before harvest. Normally the colas are much fatter. He defoliated them 2 days before the flip and again about 5 days after the flip.

He's just thrown the next lot in flower...

He defoliated them 2 weeks before the flip and this time he's gonna defoliate AFTER the stretch. You wouldn't believe that these girls was stripped absolutely bare naked on the 2nd April, but I kid you not, they was stripped bare nekked and then some. And look how they leafed up!

IMHO You need to get your environment dialled in proper before you even look at defoliation. These girls was defoliated during veg twice and he veg with 250w hps. Trying to defol with smaller lights during veg aint a good idea, especially if you got big plants that want light.

So far I'd say that defoliation works great as long as your set up's dialled in and you defoliate at the CORRECT timings.

Will keep yous updated

 

[magiccannabus]

If I am understanding the theory correctly; when the fan is cut off, the node there is stunted, so it tries to create a new node right next to it instead of stretching out. So it's a bit like topping, especially pinching?

 

[Infinitesimal]

If I am understanding the theory correctly; when the fan is cut off, the node there is stunted, so it tries to create a new node right next to it instead of stretching out. So it's a bit like topping, especially pinching?

i think your wires were a little crossed is all. when you cut a fan the node or more specifically the branch below it receives more light and grows larger faster. the stunning your referring to occurs when you pull a fan before that node's lateral branch gets to the right size and has leaves of its own to now provide said branched energy... make sense? you see if you take a fan leaf off, when said fan's node has yet to create a branch and open it's own healthy leaves your depriving that yet to grow branch of sugars. but once a branch has grown its own set of leaves you can safely pull the fan leaf, if of course that particular responds to defoliation in the first place. It does help to keep the plant shorter similar to pinching and such, but not so much by direct physical intervention. I think it has to do with the side branches now growing more vigorously and using more energy so the main stem must compensate and use less. i hope that helps.

peace,
Infi