sterile hydroponics thread

[avant gardener]

how is it that we don't have a forum for hydro growers who think it's a bad idea to put bat shit and fish emulsion in their rez? seems like there ought to be a place where a guy can ask a question about physan and h2o2 without some self-righteous granola type telling him that if he had enough seaweed extract and loving kindness in the tank there wouldn't be a problem. let's start one right here, shall we?

if you've got any questions to ask, suggestions to make, or resources to offer about STERILE HYDROPONIC CULTURE, post them here.

i've got a question today. just got a pair of 36 watt UV lamps. one for each rez. here's the one on my veg side: <photo contained geotag information. will replace shortly>


anyone else using these? so far it's doing an awesome job of keeping stuff clean. here's the problem though: it's only a 40 gallon res on this side. i'm losing about 200 ppm a day since i've been running the sterilizer 24/7. the rumors about UV degrading nutrient salts appear to be true. is this normal? my first thought is that maybe 36w is overkill for a tank this small. do i need this thing on all the time? has anyone worked a ratio for gallons of rez per watt of UV? is there another fix?

looking for some direction here.

 

[youngtrader9689]

Thank you!!!!!
***seems like there ought to be a place where a guy can ask a question about physan and h2o2 without some self-righteous granola type telling him that if he had enough seaweed extract and loving kindness in the tank there wouldn't be a problem.*************

Well said

 

[youngtrader9689]

How much and what kind of nutes are u using

 

[avant gardener]

How much and what kind of nutes are u using

basically lucas + calmag + h2o2.
occasional shot of dry KB in flower.
humic acid to adjust acidity instead of pH down.

 

[El Toker]

if you've got any questions to ask, suggestions to make, or resources to offer about STERILE HYDROPONIC CULTURE, post them here.

My question is why sterile? Is this something that you would recommend for anyone using hydro or just those with root problems like pythium?

Why are you using H202 and UV to sterilise the water, shouldn't either one of those on their own be good enough?

I've actually got a UV steriliser that I used to use with my pond so trying it out would be no problem for me if I thought there was an advantage to it.

 

[foomar]

Heavy metals are commonly removed from contaminated industrial/process water , in a process which adds peroxide/ozone to precipitate or oxidise them out of solution.

The same thing could be acting on the res nutes , organics are oxidised first if present , any unreacted peroxide excess then strips out metal ions.

When i used ebb n flow , a teaspoon of domestic bleach once a week in a thirty gallon res kept things sweet , with no root damage.

 

[youngtrader9689]

I am very lucky to have some of the best tap water in the world!!!!!!!
THE GREAT LAKES

 

[avant gardener]

My question is why sterile? Is this something that you would recommend for anyone using hydro or just those with root problems like pythium?

basically you've got two schools of thought here. there are those folks who believe that plants in hydro need beneficial organisms to fix nutrients to their roots (as in soil) and to keep pathogenic critters suppressed. they'll add supplements and use some combination of organic and synthetic nutirents to their rez to do this.

then there's the sterile or dead rez school. idea here is that you don't need bennies in the tank because the plants constantly have all the materials they need made available to them via the nutrient solution and that the very best way to control pathogens is not to let the live in your rez to begin with. create a sterile field, set it, and forget it. the only thing alive in your room should be you and your plants. it's a lot of work to keep this type of system clean, but there's an elegance and a simplicity to it.

another way to look at it is by analogy—do you want to run your hydro garden like an organic farm or like a laboratory? each has its own merits and its own problems. we're just looking at one here.

Why are you using H202 and UV to sterilise the water, shouldn't either one of those on their own be good enough?

ideally, yes. for a number of reasons i was hoping i could just get away with the light, but i didn't want to drop the peroxide til i knew the other one worked.

I've actually got a UV steriliser that I used to use with my pond so trying it out would be no problem for me if I thought there was an advantage to it.

it does the same thing in your rez that it does in your pond. it kills algae, fungus, and bacteria, keeps the water clear and odor free. i haven't gotten any hard data yet, but it looks like it might also degrade your nutes a little bit. i'm beginning to think it's just a matter of topping off more, but that's just an opinion right now.

 

[El Toker]

Thanks for that AvantG it's very interesting.

At the moment my system is a recirculating aeroponic/SWC hybrid. All I ever put in is basic nutrients. If there are any beneficial bacteria there it's by accident rather than design. I'm not tempted to try sterilising the water myself at the moment as I still can't see the advantage. But I'll definitely keep an eye on this thread to see what other people's experiences are.

 

[mudvaynefan]

Can you achieve the desired results by sterilizing the water, then adding nutes?

 

[Opus53]

My question is why sterile? Is this something that you would recommend for anyone using hydro or just those with root problems like pythium?

Why are you using H202 and UV to sterilise the water, shouldn't either one of those on their own be good enough?

I've actually got a UV steriliser that I used to use with my pond so trying it out would be no problem for me if I thought there was an advantage to it.

just thought id have to make comment toke....out of a 15 year weed growing experience iv dabbled with hydro useing half the room on maybe 5 occassions ..3 of them equaled my coco results but 2 of them fell to the dreaded pythium....dont get me wrong i have every respect for this sterile type of growin, but a few months work to see shit laid on its back .......never say never though, il be watchin with interest guys, imho opinion this is the really most advanced level of cultivation! and done right can throw extreme yeilds

bests all

 

[avant gardener]

yeah, i don't know about being the most advanced level. some of the hardcore organic cats i know practice their craft like virtuosos on their instruments. there's really an art to it.

i'd say that sterile is the ultimate dose of prevention though. if nothing can live, nothing can get a footing and make problems. sounds kind of like horticultural fascism.

 

[HydroCab]

i dont claim to know anything about uv sterlilzing but out of curiousity... u said u ran the light 24/7? maybe just running it a few hours every other day could take care of the microbes and not affect the nute solution as much, or just some testing could find a happy medium.

and if so, i would love to give it a whirl if u could find a ratio of say watt per gal per hour...or something like that lmao

good luck!

 

[rives]

I've been thinking of going this route, but as Foomar said, with domestic bleach. From what I've read, H2O2 has far too short of a life in solution, thus the bleach is supposed to be a better alternative. I haven't seen him posting lately, but I know that Lazyman was using this method in his blumat/coco setup. There is quite a bit of information in the blumat thread about running a dead rez, but I don't recall anyone using germicidal lamps.

 

[whodare]

bleach in your rez produces trihalo-methanes, im not knocking using it but i stopped using it when i read about them(though the amount of bleach added is pretty insignificant)...

i run rSwc and my res runs at 80f, haven't had a problem yet.


i dont believe for a second though that bleach will prevent a pythium outbreak(though it will make it less likely in less than ideal conditions).

if the conditions are right (lack of dissolved O2 through improper aeration/warm temps, unhealthy plants) it will get ya eventually.


ultimately proper aeration, recirculation, and healthy plants are key.

 

[Danks2005]

This is very interesting. I know the UV sterilizers are big in saltwater aquariums. I cannot put any more money into my new room until harvest time but will be watching this thread and doing some further research. I like the idea. My guess at this point, and it is only a guess, is that the UV would be sufficient. I wonder if the aquarium enthusiasts are running the UV 24/7? Definitely do not want to degrade nutes, at least not to a noticable degree.

What stage are your plants? Could the ppm loss be nutrient uptake? Though 200ppm a day does seem high.

I've never used bleach, as I've always been skeptical of using it. I generally add H2O2, but only if/when a problem arises. Like whodare, if temps and DO are in check I rarely have problems. UV seems like a great alternative to adding chemicals such as bleach or H2O2.

 

[avant gardener]

I've been thinking of going this route, but as Foomar said, with domestic bleach. From what I've read, H2O2 has far too short of a life in solution, thus the bleach is supposed to be a better alternative. I haven't seen him posting lately, but I know that Lazyman was using this method in his blumat/coco setup. There is quite a bit of information in the blumat thread about running a dead rez, but I don't recall anyone using germicidal lamps.

damn rives. good to hear from you. does this mean no one is having an electrical issue today.

i use peroxide because it doesn't break down into anything nasty
and it leaves no residuals:
2(H2O2) ----> 2(H2O) + O2
also, it's really tough to cook your plants with the stuff.
you're right though. it does degrade quickly.
i add 3ml/gallon every other day of the 30% stuff.

i'm pretty sure bleach breaks down in oxygen too though. i used to dip my hands in a bleach solution before going into the shop. i oticed that if i didn't keep the tub covered that the bleach would lose its "bleachiness" in a couple of days. there are a handful of pathogens that bleach doesn't kill (fungi mostly from what i understand) so i use physan 20. they use that stuff religiously in commercial flower nurseries. i also drop .5ml/gallon of physan in the rez 24 hours before nute changes. don't want to leave it in there forever because it foams up something awful.

there's a lot of sterilizing agents out there. i'm not married to h2o2. i switch it up pretty regularly. that way, in case there is something lurking in the rez it's less likely to develop a resistance and take over. from the veg room to the flower room and each time i get a new batch in either side, i alternate between h2o2, dutch master zone, and sm-90. zone is good because it's chlorine based like bleach, but it stays viable longer. the sm-90 supposedly isn't that effective against fungi and aerobic bacteria (i've heard of guys using it with bennies), but it smells awesome and bugs (the creepy-crawly kind) don't seem to like it a bit.

i'm hoping the UV thing will eliminate the need for these additives. less chemicals, less work, and of course less shit to buy. these are all plusses. on top of breaking down the nutes quickly, i've just spotted another potential shortfall of the light. unlike the additives, a UV light won't interact with the plants at all. and it only interacts with the water that happens to be passing through the tube at that moment. the chemicals are always present in all of the solution.

i know guys were talking about using UV in the root slime threads. that's where i got the idea. that and a guy i know who builds reef aquariums. if you're ever looking for a new way to do something in hydro, run it by an aquarium/pond guy and a guy who does landscape irrigation. you might be surprised what they tell you. lot of common ground there.

anyone else got anything yet?

 

[Nifty_PoT]

I rate you don't really need to UV sterilize your water on small scale grows. It will remove elements from your solution as you have noticed, specifically chelated minerals like Fe. Use bleach or h202 as you have been if you need to /as required. if you insist on UV sterilization you would need to add back nutrients regularly and that will never be easy as you don't know exactly what elements or in what amounts is taken out by the UV process.

 

[legin]

seems to me that dutchmaster zone may be a good additive for a dead rez...

 

[PetFlora]

I use an outboard rez to run my HPA rig. I use all DM nutes, including Zone, but still get microbe colonies building up in my filters. I have to clean rez filters and mist head filters ~ 5 days. ARPITA

I tried 3% h2O2 but as Rives stated it dissipates too fast. I would not recommend adding 30-35% food grade h2o2 straight, as the oxidizing effect to the nutes it first comes in contact with might be an issue.

Several years ago I used a cluster of lava rock inside a net pot wrapped in painters screen (sub with pantyhose, or nylon sock). The microbes colonize on the rock leaving nutes and filters clean. I just went back to this yesterday as bleach was not keeping microbes at bay.