Ron Paul 2012!!! Your thoughts on who we should pick for our "Cause"?

[itisme]

Declare.....Bush declared "Shock and Awe"

We were the ones in awe...Our Gov't loves the World, but it seems they wish to control it.

Nam, Iraq, Unclared wars...Those are not the wars looking for. - Working a Jedi Mind trick. I watch FOX/CNN and just bust out laughing at all the lies...

Can you say Syrian Dan. Then they talk about the rising malitias. L
ike the Gov't is worried about us and we can't worry about them. UMM...I'm to old to fall for that crap.

 

[dagnabit]

Isolationism is not noninterventionism...

Is it the Syrian navy thats a threat? Their ICBMs?
Are they an invasion threat? A huge Syrian ground force off the coast of Virginia?
Are they as much of a "threat" as Iraq was?
Maybe a little preemption is in order.

 

[itisme]

Dwight D. Eisenhower:

Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing.

Abraham Lincoln:

Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion… and you allow him to make war at pleasure… If to-day he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,–’I see no probability of the British invading us’; but he will say to you, ‘Be silent: I see it, if you don’t.’
​

 

[itisme]

In contrast to the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive war:
■“As a matter of common sense and self-defense, America will act against such emerging threats before they are fully formed.” — Introduction to the National Security Strategy of September 17, 2002
■“Our security will require transforming the military you will lead — a military that must be ready to strike at a moment’s notice in any dark corner of the world. And our security will require all Americans to be … to be ready for preemptive action when necessary to defend our liberty and to defend our lives. — West Point address 2002
■And in 2006, Bush Reaffirms Strike-First Policy Says U.S. Can Launch ‘Pre-emptive’ War

Cheney’s ‘One Percent’ Doctrine:
■“If there’s a 1% chance that Pakistani scientists are helping al-Qaeda build or develop a nuclear weapon, we have to treat it as a certainty in terms of our response. It’s not about our analysis … It’s about our response. ” (as reported by Ron Suskind in The One Percent Doctrine)

Addendum: Barack Obama
■“The danger … is that we are constantly fighting the last war, responding to the threats that have come to fruition, instead of staying one step ahead of the threats of the 21st century.” (Obama warns against ‘fighting the last war’, AP, 2008)
■Will Obama ‘change’ Bush’s war doctrine? (PressTV, October 2009)
■Commentary comparing Bush and Obama after the NPP speech: Rachel Maddow

 

[itisme]

WHAT DOES THE US CONSTITUTION SAY?
What does the US Constitution, one of the most important modern documents in the world and the supreme law of the United States, say about the declaration of war? Article I, Section 8 grants Congress, rather than the President, the power to authorise war, but no Congress has done so in 60 years. The expansion of executive power against the legislative branch is perhaps most starkly illustrated in the power assumed to declare war, tempered only somewhat after the war on Vietnam by the War Powers Resolution of 1973, intended to limit the power of the President to wage war without the approval of the Congress.

To but briefly sketch the historical and constitutional contours, World War II was the last war that the US Congress declared. Beginning with Korea, US Presidents have used their position as commander in chief to fight wars that are not declared by Congress. Both invasions of Iraq, the invasion and war on Afghanistan, the war in Kosovo and all major military action have since been taken at the behest of the President, not Congress. Instead of formal war declarations, the United States Congress has begun issuing authorizations of force.

Notwithstanding the romanticised mythology around the Constitutional Framers who were mostly propertied slave-owning white men of privilege, who excluded women, non-whites and the masses (with honorable exceptions such as abolitionists Thomas Paine, John and Abigail Adams, and Alexander Hamilton), the Framers intent to vest power to declare war in Congress is an important one.

“The constitution supposes, what the History of all Governments demonstrates, that the Executive is the branch of power most interested in war, and most prone to it,” James Madison wrote to Thomas Jefferson.

 

[GP73LPC]

WHAT DOES THE US CONSTITUTION SAY?

like Bush said, 'it's just a goddamn piece of paper'...

apparently the current admin, the senate and the house all feel the same way...




EDIT:
Maybe, just maybe Obama appoints 2 or 3 more Supreme Court Justices and the court reverses some of the bullshit the executive and legislative branches have pulled...

 

[itisme]

Amplified Volume) Obama Caught on Hot Mic Admitting Election Fraud by TPTB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQXeGtfqCOw

News Admits Not Mentioning Ron Paul on Super Tuesday & Iran War Propaganda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMZZyDgmOFo&feature=related

North Dakota Caucus STOLEN from Ron Paul?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UX2KuS9oOk&feature=related

 

[whodare]

Sure he did. Ron Paul voted to go after the Taliban. Congress authorized the use of force to eliminate Sadam and WMDs.

wrong so wrong...

Dr. Paul voted to go after Osama and the people deemed responsible for 9/11

he did not vote to wage a war on "terror"
or innocent people

lol WMD

Dr. Paul voted against Iraq

You live a limited information existance.

i have the same info as you, i just choose to use logic, and alternative info sources to look past the propaganda and you don't...

Duh? The world didn't stop to let us off the Bush Legacy. Obama carried out Maliki's exit order and resisted the protests from folks like McCain, Graham and career Pentagon brass wanting to stay.

We're taking steps to get out of Afghanistan but Obama never campaigned on leaving terrorists alone. He campaigned on going after terrorists and that's exactly what he's doing. That said, Obama is resisting the convention invade and raid tactics that Bush and Cheney insisted the war on terror deserves.

those dang terrorist, nevermind 100,000 fucking dead innocents blood on our hands.

was it worth it you...

You'd probably love to see Obama declare preemptive war on a nation that didn't threaten us - that way you're argument that Bush and Obama are no different would stick. Obama is utilizing the same tactics we used to go after terrorists before 9/11, not after.

lol obama signing the ndaa and requesting indefinite detention already proved they are the exact same animal(literally)

Funny we haven't declared any new wars.

not since wwii

real funny sending americans to die unconstitutionally, real funny clown...

Yeah, I sure miss the mother fucker who downed a 747 over Scotland and started killing all his people for protesting their living conditions. What a guy.

of course you would, as you've proven before you are,

pro violent robbery
pro murder
pro mob rule

and now your a terrorist sympathizer...

Last time I checked, Syria has little to exploit. What exactly are we supposed to imperialize in Syria?

exploit and imperialize are different things, incase ya didnt know...
and we will certainly do both...

EXPLOIT
: to make productive use

Imperialism, as defined by Dictionary of Human body , is "the creation and/or maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination." Imperialism, as described by that work is primarily a Western undertaking that employs "expansionist, merchantilist policies".[1]


The term as such primarily has been applied to Western political and economic dominance in the 19th and 20th centuries. Some writers, such as Edward Said, use the term more broadly to describe any system of domination and subordination organized with an imperial center and a dominated periphery.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

... Maybe a little preemption is in order.

You can always hope.

 

[dagnabit]

I can always hope.

not me...
i dont think we should starve and kill innocent citizens...
not even to get the bad men..
you know the ones with WMDs and the ones downed a 747 over Scotland and started killing all his people for protesting their living conditions...

but hey you and rush feel the world is a safer place now that they are gone....

 

[ShroomDr]

Dwight D. Eisenhower:

Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing.

Preventative war was not invented by Hitler. Goebbels may have perfected propaganda behind it, but the idea did not begin in the 1930's.

Eisenhower may have said those words, but im POSITIVE it was in the overall context of this (read: WW2) conflict. Using the quote that was makes Eisenhower seem foolish, and he certainly was not.

Hell, WW1 was a 'preventative war' too. The only reason Germany attacked France was because they knew an attack would be coming soon enough (because Germany was fighting Russia and there was a Franco-Russian agreement).

Congress, rather than the President, the power to authorise war, but no Congress has done so in 60 years.

I dont know how you DONT consider the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists a declaration of war.

I guess its another example of our problems agreeing on the definition of words...

Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Somilia, Kosovo, i agree... 60 years.... i dont think so

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

wrong so wrong...

Dr. Paul voted to go after Osama and the people deemed responsible for 9/11

Check your facts, Taliban wouldn't turn over OBL so we authorized going after the Taliban. Remember, the then leaders of Afghanistan?

he did not vote to wage a war on "terror"
or innocent people

That's your argument, nobody else made it. It's something you can play with, all by yourself.

lol WMD

Dr. Paul voted against Iraq

Nobody said he voted for it. You originally try to make out like Bush didn't seek his own whacked version of congressional approval. Now all you can say is Ron voted against it. Earth to whodie - Obama also voted against what he'd previously termed a "dumb war"

i have the same info as you, i just choose to use logic

You choose to disagree.

those dang terrorist, nevermind 100,000 fucking dead innocents blood on our hands.

Wake up. Nobody's defending preemptive invasion, occupation and endless insurgencies. You're so busy arguing you've lost your original crux.

was it worth it you...

Is a first-base argument worth meandering left field?

lol obama signing the ndaa and requesting indefinite detention already proved they are the exact same animal(literally)

You paid no attention to 2004, Hamdi vs Rumsfeld - SCOTUS' indefinite detention ruling as legal, not to mention the Pentagon having sole discretion. Obama can't get out of this mess until a majority of Congress allows closing GITMO and returning prosecution to civilian courts.

I don't care what you disagree with. But reminding you of reality is boring.

not since wwii

real funny sending americans to die unconstitutionally, real funny clown...



of course you would, as you've proven before you are,

pro violent robbery
pro murder
pro mob rule

and now your a terrorist sympathizer...

And you're a limp noodle with little knowledge or interest in recent history and current events.

exploit and imperialize are different things, incase ya didnt know...
and we will certainly do both...

Get back on track and I'll exchange with you. Make it up as you go and I'll point it out.

 

[whodare]

Check your facts, Taliban wouldn't turn over OBL so we authorized going after the Taliban. Remember, the then leaders of Afghanistan?

Hmm that's exactly what I said. He voted to go after Osama and those responsible for 9/11.

That's your argument, nobody else made it. It's something you can play with, all by yourself.

Statement of fact not an argument.

Nobody said he voted for it. You originally try to make out like Bush didn't seek his own whacked version of congressional approval. Now all you can say is Ron voted against it. Earth to whodie - Obama also voted against what he'd previously termed a "dumb war"

Voted against it, campaigned on ending it, then picked up were bush left off, now contemplates expanding it.(not talking Iraq just the overall middle east conflict)

Wake up. Nobody's defending preemptive invasion, occupation and endless insurgencies. You're so busy arguing you've lost your original crux.

Support for establishment candidates will result in nothing less than more of the same.

You paid no attention to 2004, Hamdi vs Rumsfeld - SCOTUS' indefinite detention ruling as legal, not to mention the Pentagon having sole discretion. Obama can't get out of this mess until a majority of Congress allows closing GITMO and returning prosecution to civilian courts.

I don't care what you disagree with. But reminding you of reality is boring.

So the "commander" of the us armed forces is just a puppet?
Has to answer to his controllers at the pentagon?

 

[SpasticGramps]

Funny we haven't declared any new wars.

That's right. O didn't even bother to ask Congress for authorization to use force before going into Libya. I guess that what Ponetta means now that international permission overrides whatever our Constitution says.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Whodare, what does Obama have to do to escape the painful scrutiny of contemplation? He'd pretty much have to be an isolationist. Either that or ask you what's your take on international security measures.

You and I have little idea what amounts to national security interests. Unfortunately, Ron Paul and the other candidates are in the position that Obama was in 2008. The opposing candidates don't know the particulars they'll inherit should they win the election. They will also inherit legacy aspects that may reflect the Bush administration as much or more than the Obama administration. If they can't throw the switch like a train to anther track, it's no indication they're following their predecessors' strategies. This isn't theater where they close the curtain, then open the next act. There are entire departments, agencies and elective offices seeking continuance of the Bush WOT policies.. They don't just stop on January 21st and say, "Gee Mr. President, how do you wish to proceed?" It's far closer to, "You want to prosecute KSM in civilian court? Fuck you!"

I won't mention that if Obama attempted to strong arm control of the apparatus in order to close GITMO and end the bullshit WOT, you'd probably say he's a dictator.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213

the so called communist has one of the lowest tax rates of all times.

 

[SpasticGramps]

NM

 

[GP73LPC]

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213
View Image

the so called communist has one of the lowest tax rates of all times.

facts don't matter to the right.

they wanna make up their own facts. i repeatedly tell people i know from the right 'you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts' !!!!

common denominator, they all watch FOX news almost exclusively...

oh course then there is the fact 'he's black' <-- a bunch of folks can't get over this....

obama is hated so much by the christian right, they are gonna vote for CULT member Romney instead of one of their own. the far right right has lost their common sense. vaginal penetration ultrasounds, insurance coverage of contraception and separation of church and state are all they are capable of processing...

fuck jobs and the economy, these 50 year social issues should be rehashed...

FUCK THE RIGHT, they are clueless....

 

[mrcreosote]

The public school and main-stream media indoctrination seems to be working as planned Mr. Burns...

Excellent, Smithers...Excellent.

 

[itisme]

WW1 was a 'preventative war'

Watch the "Money Masters" it shows how all the World Wars and others were orchestrated, although it is in broad terms and as usual, tied to the money.