Flush and starve plants during flowering??

[ekomsi]

I would rather have healthy as can be plants harvested the same day as some dead looking plant naturally or not, just saying lol. COLOR is NICE As well but overall HEALTHY is the goal.

That was a cool video with lots of information about a strain. I just dont know how that would work in a 48 bucket ebb n grow system.

Thats a nice looking cola there HomeBrewer, Wish all my buds looked like that at harvest.
Im only a few harvests into growing and this crop which is about finished has produced up to this time plants that look very healthy (no yellowing) and plants that have leaves that are yellowing falling off these leaves are not yellowing and dying off because they are at the end of its life cycle but because its roots have choked and clogged the fill drain and line. Causing the roots to dry. Then plants right next to them same strain that look absolutely bigger, healthier and deff going to yield more.

 

[abellguy]

By all means, do what works best for you. In my almost 11 years in this hobby, I've found that the highest quality smoke comes from the healthiest plants. If harvesting deficient plants is supposed to yield the best results then everyone's first year of growing should have yielded us the best cannabis in the world. That's not how it works though. The key to this whole thing is learning how to read our plants and feeding accordingly.

The picture below is of a plant at harvest day (day 62). It was fed at or just below 1.0 EC at the peak of flowering in an Ebb-n-flow system. No offense but I laughed a little when a previous poster said they flushed several times with the same feeding levels that I consider more than adequate for healthy growth. I don't even want to know what the EC was when the plants weren't being flushed.

[URL=http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4167/6391c.jpg]View Image[/URL]

A crop of the previous picture:

[URL=http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4387/6395.jpg]View Image[/URL]

It am not sure it really matters cause with research a great harvest can be had within your first year of growing, but I have been growing almost three times as long as you. I grow for a living, I don't like to look at myself as a commercial gardener cause that has the negative connotation of growing only for maximum yield. What I am looking for is maximum yield of totally ripe mature buds.

One of the hardest things for growers to get and understand is we aren't growing for maximum yield (unless the product is just for yourself) but rather maximum yield with the plant having flowers that are ripe. Its quite easy to get a plant to finish totally green and be full of chlorophyl and as MPL stated not decarb. properly. The decarb. part you might not notice as you don't finish bowls. I would think with your method of smoking that making oil would be more what you are looking for, as it seems you are looking to burn as little of that plant material as possible?

My EC as in any healthy garden will be the same as what I pour in with PH being very close as well. The flush that is happening with the lower EC is not to bring the EC down to an acceptable level, it is rather to "flush" the plant some so it's working harder to get the same nutrient level from the lower EC solution which in turn actually makes the buds grow bigger and with more trics. (what I call calculated stress)

I believe you are hearing yellow leaves and immediately think deficiency or overfeed as apposed to what is actually biologically happening for the time the plant is within its flower period. Your picture if fantastic of the buds you grew and I am sure they are just fine herb. I also know that with some tweaking you can make those buds even better, with more taste and tric production. I usually see sort of a pink sheen from the trics as they cloud and become milky which is just beautiful to see and especially the smell complexity of the terpenes

Sorry it took a minute to get back to you guys but I wanted to get a pic cause as they say it's worth a thousand words. This pic is from within the last two weeks day 45 or so I believe. Hope this helps.

 

[MPL]

Yeah my buds are green (or purple, depending), but the leaves, including many of the finger leaves, almost always go a golden color.

 

[MPL]

My plants do what abellguy's plants are doing. Some beautiful plants abell!

 

[Gifted0ne]

I know this thread is old but found it interesting,

From my experience when i have perfectly healthy plants all the way up through the final week or 10 days of harvest I also have no signs of deficiency. For the last 7-10 days I replace the res with pure RO generally around 45ppm or less and never do the leaves discolor at all.

I would have to agree with Homebrewer for sure because my quality is A+, taste & potency is as good as it gets. I do however remove all the leaves within the last few days just to make sure no chem are left.

I would conclude that if your plants have unhealthy fan leaves during flower your plants were pretty unhealthy during your flush, however it may or may not have a huge effect on the but quality the yield will be affected. If your leaves all stay green last week it means they are being flushed during the proper time where the plant no longer is growing but maturing and dying.

 

[VertNwb]

Harvesting green is retarded. So are the 'skillsets' of most 20-30 year experienced growers that learned in a vacuum.

If I had a dime for every grower in the world with 10+ years experience that's pumping out crap cannabis, I'd be a millionaire. Very large differences between plants that are fed to harvest and ones that are leached of their nutrients for a period of time. Differences even a noob can detect.

I'll put my stash upside yours any day. None gets less than a 14 day flush anymore.


If your plants don't start changing colors when you reduce the nutrient solution, you've fed them too much at some point and they have plenty to keep themselves green with.

 

[Gifted0ne]

Harvesting green is retarded. So are the 'skillsets' of most 20-30 year experienced growers that learned in a vacuum.

If I had a dime for every grower in the world with 10+ years experience that's pumping out crap cannabis, I'd be a millionaire. Very large differences between plants that are fed to harvest and ones that are leached of their nutrients for a period of time. Differences even a noob can detect.

I'll put my stash upside yours any day. None gets less than a 14 day flush anymore.


If your plants don't start changing colors when you reduce the nutrient solution, you've fed them too much at some point and they have plenty to keep themselves green with.

So i guess you missed the part where i said i only use plain RO for the last 7 days in aero res. My buds burn white ash and are extremely potent and full of taste.

My leaves are always in perfect health no tip burn, no curling, perfect green not too dark nor light. Ive dialed it in and once the res is changed to RO there is nothing but 40ppm or less in the water but the leaves look perfectly green all the way to harvest.

The bud couldn't be better its A+ quality so from my experience with everything else ive concluded that its best for the plant to remain healthy up till final 7 days of flush. And if you smoked it I could tell you its 100% organic and you would believe it even though its 100% chem.

 

[DHF]

So i guess you missed the part where i said i only use plain RO for the last 7 days in aero res. My buds burn white ash and are extremely potent and full of taste.

My leaves are always in perfect health no tip burn, no curling, perfect green not too dark nor light. Ive dialed it in and once the res is changed to RO there is nothing but 40ppm or less in the water but the leaves look perfectly green all the way to harvest.

The bud couldn't be better its A+ quality so from my experience with everything else ive concluded that its best for the plant to remain healthy up till final 7 days of flush. And if you smoked it I could tell you its 100% organic and you would believe it even though its 100% chem.

Never flushed a plant in my life Vertnewb , but rather dwindled down ppm`s over the last few weeks with R/O topoffs till definite yellowing and the plants cannibalizing themselves of excess N for the fade occurred till chop in all the leftover foliage.....but ....

Gifted.....If you`ve never experienced "the fade" with "autumn-like " colors coming out in your late bloom plants , then guaranteed your plants have more N than needed come Harvey REGARDLESS of the dry and cure process that ensues and gives your nugs acceptable taste/flavor and smell profile.......now.....

Flushing is a universal "argument" and has been since weedsites began , and it all boils down to how much juice you shove up your plants ass during the grow and flowering sequence of the plants cycle to whether or not they NEED flushing during late flower IME , but WTF do I know.......

Less is more.......Lower ppm`s across the board and never over 750/1.5 EC and dwindled down to tapwater levels in the 200 and below range till Harvey with proper slow dry and cure taking care of remaining ppms worked for me for well on 20 yrs of dialed results croppin my old ass off......anyways.....

My 2 cents from all them yrs.....Learn your plants needs and dial em....

Peace....DHF............

 

[VertNwb]

Never flushed a plant in my life Vertnewb , but rather dwindled down ppm`s over the last few weeks with R/O topoffs till definite yellowing and the plants cannibalizing themselves of excess N for the fade occurred till chop in all the leftover foliage.....but ....

This is exactly what I do, this is what I call 'Flushing". The word "Flush" has many connotations for people.

sucks.

The bud couldn't be better it's A+ quality so from my experience

Yes, from your experience it's A+ quality. Do what DHF and I say a few times and you'll change your story.

7 days is not a long enough flush. At least 14 days, on average, is necessary for the more persistently stored nutes to be used up by the plant.

 

[Gifted0ne]

Well maybe its just my method, i use about 800-900 ppm gh 3part through until last week flush in which i go straight to 0-40ppm RO & h202. During the last few day I remove most of the foliage which is like i said all nice and green, but when removed cant really hurt regardless of color i assume..

My bud does burn white and taste seems all there so never really considered flushing longer but on the run im on now doin 10 days flush. Out here in LA ive sampled around 40-50 diff strains with various qualities and I gotta say mine is up there with the best. But im sure there's more then 1 great method that works anyways.

 

[DHF]

Well maybe its just my method, i use about 800-900 ppm gh 3part through until last week flush in which i go straight to 0-40ppm RO & h202. During the last few day I remove most of the foliage which is like i said all nice and green, but when removed cant really hurt regardless of color i assume..

My bud does burn white and taste seems all there so never really considered flushing longer but on the run im on now doin 10 days flush. Out here in LA ive sampled around 40-50 diff strains with various qualities and I gotta say mine is up there with the best. But im sure there's more then 1 great method that works anyways.

Welcome Gifted......In no way was I putting down "your way" if it works for you , but ......

I assure you that if you`ll start dialing down the ppm`s in the last 2-3 weeks strain dependent before Harvey , what you`ll witness "especially" if the N and micro ppm`s have been dropped and replaced with the bloom formula to maintain constant EC .......

Will be a "definite" show of the plants cannibalizing themselves of all excess N as well as ripening at night and pumping resin during lights on till chop........IOW.....

That "fade" and yellowing off of all foliage left that`ll actually dry up and fall off the vine before chop if the plant goes as far as most are supposed to go but rarely do......anyways....

Just tryin ta help.......If you `ve ever grown dope outside and seen what mother nature does to em by end of cycle , you`d know that the fade/yellowing off consists of and is definitely needed for the finish , along with a proper slow , long , and dry/cure process to provide the best possible product for market as the end result IME.....right ?......

No offense intended......Only knowledge offered.....

Peace....DHF..........

 

[EclipseFour20]

Yellow leaves in nature? I guess Autumn never happens, right?

Yep I agree with DHF's thinking. If one wants to "mimic nature"--one has to...mimic nature in practice. Harvesting green bananas might be OK, but most fruit, vegetables, flowers, are best harvested at their "peak".

Given the option of harvesting a "green immature plant" vs a "yellow mature plant"--my vote is on the later; flavs & aromas are more pronounced--and potency will usually be greater. Put differently, seldom does one harvest plants early...if the goal is to maximize potency.

 

[Gifted0ne]

Yellow leaves in nature? I guess Autumn never happens, right?

Yep I agree with DHF's thinking. If one wants to "mimic nature"--one has to...mimic nature in practice. Harvesting green bananas might be OK, but most fruit, vegetables, flowers, are best harvested at their "peak".

Given the option of harvesting a "green immature plant" vs a "yellow mature plant"--my vote is on the later; flavs & aromas are more pronounced--and potency will usually be greater. Put differently, seldom does one harvest plants early...if the goal is to maximize potency.

DHF seems to know quiet a bit.. I guess my understanding from experience is that forcing cannibalization isn't necessary just because you see a little of it in nature, and a ton by over flushed indoor plants. Its science i take them to full maturity while pushing them with chemicals and lots of h202 daily to force the roots to stay white without rot. 1 week flush in aero will rid the chem completely fyi.

I do believe that aeroponics and my method is greater then nature because of the yield and quality ive experienced, although i'd much rather use the sun then hid.

Its like Mc donalds fries the should rot after weeks sitting out but they dont they look super fresh.

 

[BasementGrower]

So i guess you missed the part where i said i only use plain RO for the last 7 days in aero res. My buds burn white ash and are extremely potent and full of taste.

My leaves are always in perfect health no tip burn, no curling, perfect green not too dark nor light. Ive dialed it in and once the res is changed to RO there is nothing but 40ppm or less in the water but the leaves look perfectly green all the way to harvest.

The bud couldn't be better its A+ quality so from my experience with everything else ive concluded that its best for the plant to remain healthy up till final 7 days of flush. And if you smoked it I could tell you its 100% organic and you would believe it even though its 100% chem.

Im sorry I had to laugh.. but man I need to attend the next canna cup or icmag cup.. or whatever.. because I really wana see and show people that yes. the flush is worth it.. FOR SURE

 

[BasementGrower]

another thing.. I bet flushed bud.. just harvested hung to dry.. trimmed and smoked.. tastes and smokes wayyyyy better then anything not flushed and cured for a month.

 

[Gifted0ne]

another thing.. I bet flushed bud.. just harvested hung to dry.. trimmed and smoked.. tastes and smokes wayyyyy better then anything not flushed and cured for a month.

Depends on the health of the plant throughout flowering, a lot more variables then flushed vs not flushed.. Not to mention i flush for 7 days and everyone acts like thats the same as no flush, now thats comical to me.

Ive asked plenty of friends if mine was any good they respond with its the best weed ive ever smoked, and they've had all the top shelf strains.. Obv not the best but as good as the best, and its not just my opinion.

Longer flushes are to leach soil coco etc. while aero is almost instant, 7 days is ample. I go by results not what people think. Green leaves up through harvest have been the best product for me. You are welcome to try mine.

 

[EclipseFour20]

I guess if I were a manufacturer of cannabis ferts/nutes and if I wanted my customers to buy more of my product$, then I would recommend using 150% of the amount of ferts/nutes necessary to "grow" and then recommend to my customers to remove the excess by flushing the ferts/nutes out before harvest--suggesting of course, to use one of my "flushing products".

IMHO if there is no excess--then there is nothing to "flush"; think about it.

I grow in custom mix, based on Promix--and my plants needs are more than satisfied.

 

[Gifted0ne]

I guess if I were a manufacturer of cannabis ferts/nutes and if I wanted my customers to buy more of my product$, then I would recommend using 150% of the amount of ferts/nutes necessary to "grow" and then recommend to my customers to remove the excess by flushing the ferts/nutes out before harvest--suggesting of course, to use one of my "flushing products".

IMHO if there is no excess--then there is nothing to "flush"; think about it.

I grow in custom mix, based on Promix--and my plants needs are more than satisfied.

This is true but luckily I use dirt cheap nutrients and have done tons of testing to get optimal growth and health. I use jungle juice (much cheaper then gh) and h202 with epsom. So cheap that res change every 7-10 days doesnt hurt me. But i get what your saying.

 

[BasementGrower]

gifted im not saying ur buds are bad.. they mite be topshelf.. that's sweet.. im just saying.. wen I flush for that long.. im waitin for amber... so I let my plants go a little longer then some people like.. buy with the 14 day flush.. ur allowin the plant to use up the nutes in the leaves.. which inturn makes less chlorophyll to get rid of during the cure.. which means.. ur buds usually will smel an taste a lot better.. with less cure time.

 

[Gifted0ne]

Well maybe its just my method, i use about 800-900 ppm gh 3part through until last week flush in which i go straight to 0-40ppm RO & h202. During the last few day I remove most of the foliage which is like i said all nice and green, but when removed cant really hurt regardless of color i assume..

My bud does burn white and taste seems all there so never really considered flushing longer but on the run im on now doin 10 days flush. Out here in LA ive sampled around 40-50 diff strains with various qualities and I gotta say mine is up there with the best. But im sure there's more then 1 great method that works anyways.

gifted im not saying ur buds are bad.. they mite be topshelf.. that's sweet.. im just saying.. wen I flush for that long.. im waitin for amber... so I let my plants go a little longer then some people like.. buy with the 14 day flush.. ur allowin the plant to use up the nutes in the leaves.. which inturn makes less chlorophyll to get rid of during the cure.. which means.. ur buds usually will smel an taste a lot better.. with less cure time.

Ill try a 2 week flush to see if it cannibalizes in my setup just for fun but I dont think it will yellow even after 14 days ill see. Seems to me the plant stops growing at final week and just uses the plain RO to stay alive while the bud trichromes really mature, such as a rose in cup of water. I dont actually think any chemicals in the leaves are being drawn in from the leaves at that point to harm the taste.

My take on when people flush earlier is that the plant still trying to grow bud so when its nutrients become real low all the deficiency's really start to come through and plant gets real unhealthy at the end. Although it kinda what you have to do in soil and coco cause your not going to leach 20 gallon through each pot final week, but in aero or hydro you can leach it right away.