There is going to be a revolution if things keep going the way they are

[DiscoBiscuit]

The thread is not suggesting..... we are discussing the fact that this is and has become law...... and like thinking citizens, what the implications and possible consequences may be.

gloom and doom

Ah..... hmmmm.... well I think that no good Ron Paul would have just vetoed it,

Simultaneously opening the door for future presidents to do whatever they want. IMO, sounds too risky to even consider.

but that might be because he believes in a Republic and isn't bought and paid for his influence.

Before NDAA - You could be indefinitely detained on the Pentagon's actions alone.

Post NDAA - The State Dept and the president have to agree.

Do you doubt Ron Paul would veto it?

I don't predict the future. Ron Paul has already indicated that civilian prosecutions worked - no need for military commissions. But he doesn't say how he'd approach the whole thing when he'd ultimately have to lead congressional support to end tribunals.

If Ron Paul vetoed the NDAA and wasn't successful in reform of the Patriot Act, he'd leave W's door open for the next president (who might exercise more - possibly unconstitutional executive power.)

NDAA won't allow the next president to do whatever he wants unless the Pentagon and the State Department go along. That's no a fix. It's a tactic to keep the next Dick Cheney from running amok should we fail to reform military commissions.

To me it is important for a President to have principles he can not compromise but then again..... maybe NDAA is part of Obummer's principles.

IMO, you have less than a comprehensive understanding of the respective before-and-after ramifications.

Oh..... and 10-12 years with no end in sight=indefinite. Now that your candidate made it legal for citizens.....

PA made it legal. Donald Rumsfeld had discretion over who went to GITMO. SCOTUS ruled indefinite detentions constitutional in 2004.

Now, a president has to sign off and that would be political suicide so long as the electorate doesn't go more nuts than it already is.

I really hope your right and all our next Presidents don't use it. Oh, wait if they use it they won't be citizens because Obummer also allowed it to be legal to strip citizenship...... never mind my bad.


Peace

Aren't you the guy discussing fact and consequences? Your consequences are overblown because your so-called facts are often misapplied, oversimplified or wrong .

 

[dagnabit]

Laughable how you try to spin ndaa..
None of the procedures you outline are in the cat at all. Its left up ti the president to come up with the procedures...

c) Implementation Procedures-

(1) IN GENERAL- Not later than 60 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the President shall issue, and submit to Congress, procedures for implementing this section.

(2) ELEMENTS- The procedures for implementing this section shall include, but not be limited to, procedures as follows:

(A) Procedures designating the persons authorized to make determinations under subsection (a)(2) and the process by which such determinations are to be made.

(B) Procedures providing that the requirement for military custody under subsection (a)(1) does not require the interruption of ongoing surveillance or intelligence gathering with regard to persons not already in the custody or control of the United States.

(C) Procedures providing that a determination under subsection (a)(2) is not required to be implemented until after the conclusion of an interrogation session which is ongoing at the time the determination is made and does not require the interruption of any such ongoing session.

(D) Procedures providing that the requirement for military custody under subsection (a)(1) does not apply when intelligence, law enforcement, or other government officials of the United States are granted access to an individual who remains in the custody of a third country.

(E) Procedures providing that a certification of national security interests under subsection (a)(4) may be granted for the purpose of transferring a covered person from a third country if such a transfer is in the interest of the United States and could not otherwise be accomplished.

 

[dagnabit]

Not ti mention the continuation and HUGE EXPANSION of our projection of force into sovereign nations to "help" them fight the war on drugs!!!
Subtitle B will make any rational human puke
Hell spend a few days cross referencing all the removed reporting requirements in SS:f and you realize all reporting requirements to congress are eliminated. So much for oversight...
Foia requests can now be denied by DOD civilians designated by the SOD.
This years ndaa is huge and there is nothing in it positive.

Your assertion that it somehow protects us from future presidential abuses is a joke. Since we get a new ndaa every year how exactly is a yearly authorization to protect us next year?

Obfuscation and spin...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

we get a new defense authorization every year. that's budget shit. detention protocols are binding.

 

[dagnabit]

Really?
Binding you say?
Those bonds are pretty weak huh? Since this ndaa changed previous "binding detention protocols"
But hey those pesky facts need not stand in the way of good bullshit.....
Please continue explaining how this years ndaa is there to protect us from the bad presidents to come

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Ever heard of congressional reform? The next prez won't be able to change things unilaterally, he'll need an act of Congress.

 

[SpasticGramps]

Rachael Madow was bashing O for signing the NDAA. She critiqued his speech as being intellectually dishonest and hypocritical.

 

[dagnabit]

Ever heard of congressional reform? The next prez won't be able to change things unilaterally, he'll need an act of Congress.

Like this one had?
And the one before?
And before?
Ad nausem.....
Not to mention the protections you espouse are not in the ndaa...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I'm happy to see folks referencing RM and ACLU.

I don't like indefinite detentions any more than anyone else in this thread. But we couldn't change how we prosecute terrorists so we're stuck with tribunals for now. IMO, having to get the consent of three bodies of office is better than the Pentagon alone. They've only prosecuted 6 enemy combatants and had to release hundreds of GITMO prisoners.

IMO, you guys hate the fallout. I hate the act that allowed it. Doesn't make me a fan of the status quot but we still have to manage it until we get reform that ends military commissions and the fallout it causes.

 

[GrowBox420]

You know each and everyone of our IP address's are logged on some data base just for being affiliated with this website

 

[dagnabit]

IMO, having to get the consent of three bodies of office is better than the Pentagon alone.

can you site the portion of the NDAA that you are referencing?
here is the text
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c112:1:./temp/~c112E01vrB::

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

afraid to go from a weed site to a gub site yourself?

 

[dagnabit]

obviously since i c&ped the implementation procedures section in post 202.
the menege a' consent is not in the implementation procedures and i can't seem to find it. im assuming you have actually taken the time to peruse it(since you are defending it)and not just regurgitating momma huff's talking points...
just the Sec. and ss will do.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

start a revolution, militia boy.

 

[dagnabit]

start a revolution, militia boy.

huh?

 

[SpasticGramps]

Soros, Glen Beck, Mayor Bloomberg, and others have warned of coming riots in the US.

You won't need to be in a militia to participate. Just destitute from the coming austerity. Be that top down enforced austerity or market forces imposed austerity.

I reckon it's going to be the market that finally imposes the austerity and it will be complete. We lack the political will and leadership (blue and red team) to tackle the mathematics and severity of our debt crisis.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I'm not doubting there won't be protests but going subversive might suffer the consequences.

 

[dagnabit]

Sooooo
No noone can site the triple agency protection clause in the 2012 ndaa?

 

[Avenger]

Secession, not civil war.

choose to be free

don't play their game

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Don't forget how that last attempt worked out.