Ron Paul 2012!!! Your thoughts on who we should pick for our "Cause"?

[ShroomDr]

Yeah i havent heard too much yet. He is destroying many Fox news talking points.

Biden is pissing me off, he barely stands up. I realize its all smoke and mirrors, but he has the opportunity to make Boehner look like a bigger sour puss. Newt would never make that mistake.

Hey YO... he just made a milk joke!

(Boehner needs a FULL CHEROKEE FEATHER HEAD DRESS)

 

[kaotic]

He is telling you in this speech how much he is planning on growing the federal government.

 

[kaotic]

There he goes with the Warren Buffet and his secretary bullshit again. He's comparing apples to oranges and people are to stupid to see it.

 

[kaotic]

"Tax reform should follow the Buffet rule" B.O

 

[SacredBreh]

As usual, no answers but smug slight of hand.....Trade mark DB

As usual, no answers but smug slight of hand.....Trade mark DB

Does anyone doubt a monetary system that no other country on the planet uses?

Does anyone really see anything different from any of the candidates, other than, what we had for the last 30 years?

Can doing anything remotely the same, end in anything but a national and most likely international melt down of the present currency?

If all the infusions (increased leveraged debt), as ShroomDr calls them, have not done any good do you see any candidate's stance as making a significant impact on the impending crisis?

Even with unemployment magically transformed into jobs would that even remotely help?

^^^^^^^^^
Maybe the answer was in the other 4 questions you failed to address?

DB--The one you did address in an indirect manor... seems to me if the all economies are in peril and based on our "facade" currency, the answer wouldn't be found in their last 30 years of leadership either.

Peace

 

[ShroomDr]

"Tax reform should follow the Buffet rule" B.O

the ultra rich keep the taxes high on the middle and upper middle class, in order to secure votes for LOWER TAXES

He just told you that with the "Warren Buffet Bullshit".

WAKE UP

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

A handful of stoners are actually watching the SOTU address. The world isn't such a bad place.

 

[kaotic]

I just about threw a remote through the TV with that Abe Lincoln quote of his. BS.

 

[ShroomDr]

None of us pay capital gains...








or make policy...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Just think, it could have been John McCain up there telling us things will get worse before they get better.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

None of us pay capital gains...

If you have a 401k you most likely have deferred gains. You won't pay the cap gain rate until you withdraw.

 

[ShroomDr]

I voted for McCain in 2000 over Bush, i dont know what he was thinking with Palin. Talk about going rogue.

No one here is living off of capital gains like Mitt, "ive been running for prez arguably since 2005" Romney.

 

[itisme]

If you have a 401k you most likely have deferred gains. You won't pay the cap gain rate until you withdraw.

True dat...If early then taxes, penalties and fines

I am changing my vote to OBAMA, apparently the Gov't can solve all of our problems!

Discobiscuit:

Here's where it gets interesting. Ending the fed ends the debt.

I agree and IDEALLY he would end the FED.
What he really wants to do most of all is remove the control of the the CENTRAL BANKS (FED) and not allow them to print the money and give it out back door more than a Million Dollar Hooker.....Golden Saks, JP Smore again, ChittyBank, Skank of America
All the while devaluing our currency and making every single person worse off, especially the poorest among us....i.e. Elderly, Disabled, General Poor.

He wants to convert the currency to commodities backed such as Gold & Silver and/or Create competition to print the cash. Once again, to remove control from the FED thus ENDING THE FED.

He is not an ABSOLUTIST about ending the currency printed as much as he is interested in removing the CONTROL OF THE FED/ CENTRAL BANKS over our currency. PLUS A RUNNING AUDIT after a full prostate exam style full audit is run for the first time ever.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

... Can doing anything remotely the same, end in anything but a national and most likely international melt down of the present currency?

Ron Paul's been saying this since 1975. Was probably saying it before then - we just didn't hear it.

 

[kaotic]

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html


I'd like to highlight this part.
"The top-earning 5 percent of taxpayers (AGI equal to or greater than $154,643), however, still paid far more than the bottom 95 percent. The top 5 percent earned 31.7 percent of the nation's adjusted gross income, but paid approximately 58.7 percent of federal individual income taxes."




"The Internal Revenue Service has released new data on individual income taxes, reporting on calendar year 2009. The year saw no economic improvement from 2008 as unemployment continued to increase.

The amount of individual income tax paid steeply declined by $166 billion, twice the decline from 2007 to 2008. Nationally, average effective income tax rates were at their lowest levels since the IRS began tracking them in 1986. The average tax rate for returns with a positive liability went from 12.24 percent in 2008 to 11.06 percent in 2009.

As the data below show, incomes reported by tax returns at the high end of the income spectrum fell from 2008 to 2009, as did their share of the nation's income and income taxes paid. In 2009, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 36.7 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 16.9 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI), compared to 2008 when those figures were 38.0 percent and 20.0 percent, respectively. Both of those figures-share of income and share of taxes paid-were their lowest since 2003 when the top 1 percent earned 16.7 percent of adjusted gross income and paid 34.3 percent of federal individual income taxes.

Each year from 2005 to 2007, the top 1 percent's constantly growing share of income earned and taxes paid set a record. The 2008 reversal of this trend continued in 2009. In fact, the income share for the top 1 percent of tax returns was lower in 2009 than in 2000, largely due to differences in capital gains.

Another indicator of this reversal in the income and tax shares of the top 1 percent is that, as in 2008, the top 1 percent no longer pays a larger percentage of total income tax than the bottom 95 percent. This trend was exacerbated by the aforementioned precipitous drop in AGI in 2009. During 2009, the bottom 95 percent (AGI under $154,643) paid 41.3 percent of the total collected, a larger share than the 36.7 percent paid by the top 1 percent (AGI over $343,947).

The top-earning 5 percent of taxpayers (AGI equal to or greater than $154,643), however, still paid far more than the bottom 95 percent. The top 5 percent earned 31.7 percent of the nation's adjusted gross income, but paid approximately 58.7 percent of federal individual income taxes.

Since 2001, the IRS has also been presenting data on a small subset of the top 1 percent, the top 0.1 percent (the top 10 percent of the top 1 percent). In 2009, this top 0.1 percent filed 137,982 tax returns, reporting 7.8 percent of all adjusted gross income earned and paying approximately 17.1 percent of the nation's federal individual income taxes. The average income for a tax return in the top 0.1 percent was $4.4 million in 2009, while the average amount of income tax paid was $1.07 million, indicating an average effective individual income tax rate of 24.3 percent. It is worth noting that while the average income of a taxpayer in the top 0.1 percent declined in 2009, the effective tax rate for this group actually rose from 2008 to 2009. This counterintuitive result is explained by the diminished capital gains and dividend income on high-income tax returns, income sources that are taxed at lower rates. With their 2009 income more dominated by ordinary income taxed at higher rates, their average rate on high-income consequently rose.

[Note: This very top income group actually has a lower average effective income tax rate than the rest of the top 1 percent of returns because these extremely high-income returns are more likely to have income from capital gains and dividends, which are typically taxed at lower rates. It's worth pointing out that in the case of capital gains and dividends, income derived from these sources has already been taxed once by the corporate income tax, which is not included here, meaning the average effective tax rate numbers can be somewhat misleading.]

Overall, these data on high-income tax returns appear to confirm that the continued economic stagnation had the same diminishing effect on income inequality that most recessions have, and that it occurred for the same reason: a sharp decline in income at the high end. This appears to contradict reports based upon Census data suggesting the opposite[1] that the recession increased income inequality. This inconsistency between IRS data and Census data is explained by a number of factors such as: (1) Census doesn't break down data for the extremely high-income tax returns (it typically stops at the 5 percent threshold), (2) Census income measures do not account for capital gains realizations, and (3) Census data gathered from household surveys are less reliable for income information at the high end of the income spectrum than IRS data.

The IRS data below include all of the 137.98 million tax returns filed in 2009 that had a positive AGI, not just the returns from people who earned enough to owe taxes. These figures exclude those tax returns filing a return merely to receive a stimulus check.

From other IRS data, we can see that in 2009, around 59 million tax returns were filed with either positive or negative AGI that used exemptions, deductions and tax credits to completely wipe out their federal income tax liability. Not only did they get back every dollar that the federal government withheld from their paychecks during 2009, but some even received more money back from the IRS. This is a result of refundable tax credits like the earned income tax credit (EITC), the refundable portion of which is not included in the aggregate percentile data here. (For a detailed paper on the distribution of the entire U.S. fiscal system, including all federal, state and local taxes, read "Who Pays Taxes and Who Receives Government Spending? An Analysis of Federal, State and Local Tax and Spending Distributions, 1991 - 2004."[2]

Including all tax returns that had a positive AGI, taxpayers with an AGI of $159,643 or more in 2009 constituted the nation's top 5 percent of income earners. To break into the top 1 percent, a tax return had to have an AGI of $343,947 or more, which was 10 percent lower than the 2008 threshold of $380,354. The income threshold to break into the top 0.1 percent also fell dramatically from 2008 to 2009, from about $1.8 million in 2008 to $1.4 million in 2009.

Although the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts were across the board (even though certain provisions within those cuts were targeted at various income ranges), the federal individual income tax remains highly progressive. The average tax rate in 2009 ranged from around 1.9 percent of income for the bottom half of tax returns to 24.0 percent for the top 1 percent. With the possible exception of the estate tax, the federal income tax is the most progressive tax in the United States, and these numbers show why.

The source for the following charts is the Internal Revenue Service, http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxstats/article/0,,id=133521,00.html ("Individual Income Tax Returns with Positive Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) Returns Classified by Tax Percentile - Early Release")."

 

[SacredBreh]

You proved my point...... now we are at the edge!

You proved my point...... now we are at the edge!

Originally Posted by SacredBreh
... Can doing anything remotely the same, end in anything but a national and most likely international melt down of the present currency?

Quote: By Discobiscuit
Ron Paul's been saying this since 1975. Was probably saying it before then - we just didn't hear it.

^^^^^^^^^^^
So is what got us here.... from either side going to pull us back from the edge.

Oh, same as last post.... no answers! Arm chair critic with only one skill.

Peace

 

[ShroomDr]

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html


I'd like to highlight this part.
"The top-earning 5 percent of taxpayers (AGI equal to or greater than $154,643), however, still paid far more than the bottom 95 percent. The top 5 percent earned 31.7 percent of the nation's adjusted gross income, but paid approximately 58.7 percent of federal individual income taxes."

when they destroy the middle class though the 80's and 90's by selling manufacturing to ASIA, its hard to make them pay a great percentage.

We are talking FIAT MONEY.

When you control all the money, you will pay back more of the money, doesnt mean youre going broke.

 

[SacredBreh]

^^^^^^ Unlike Monopoly, we may not get a chance to play again.

Peace

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

... Oh, same as last post.... no answers! Arm chair critic with only one skill.

Peace

Until your prophecy pans out, you're no more skilled than differing opinion.

 

[GP73LPC]

Just think, it could have been John McCain up there telling us things will get worse before they get better.

or Sarah.... YIKES !!!!!