question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[bigherb]

Bigherb it's funny. You wrote an autobiography where you openly state your personal history with Haze and even Sam agrees with everything in your article but some minor points, yet you still get accused of being a front.

Ive learned sometimes in life you just have to laugh



1luvbigherb

 

[Big City]

Im no Keeper nor expert of any kind ,i exspected heat from my article its cool but keep it about the article an not personal .I find it Sad an lame that you Tom an others are bothered possibly jealous In part of my passion an persistancy to seek Knowledge .well im glad an proud of the path i have taken ,its brought me to places ive never imagined

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

You beef with Tom im sure is notthe same as mine as we are nothing alike you and I .I await a response to my last post ,id love to hear his thoughts on his 15 year experience versus the 5 or soo recent reports of spice and incense which Tom seems to be denying

bigherb,

I appreciate your passion for Haze. It's one that we have a mutual connection with.

You made it an obsession to read every thread on Haze for the last few years. You've asked the same questions over and over again. You've had doors slammed in your face over and over. And you've annoyed the shit out of a lot of people over the years with your constant "incense" and sandlewood" talk. lol

Sam could have answered all of your questions in 15 minutes, but he made you put the work in to learn for yourself. And, his posts above was probably validation for you and all the time you spent. You've never stopped trying to learn the history, and for that I commend you. If it wasn't for you ruffling feathers and continuing to ask these questions, we might never have gotten this story.

Now, in that process you have annoyed some people. And, I think it's pretty obvious that you've annoyed the shit out of tom. He's not jealous of you man. I think he's sick of you trying to stamp his line with the terms incense & sandlewood, a line where it might not be appropriate.

I also recall him posting to you where you would likely find these aromas and it fell on deaf ears at the time. Only now, we are finding out he was totally right with his suggestions to you.

Anyway, I would suggest you grow out a few packs of Tom's haze. Don't relay second or third hand information to the breeder of the strain. You are presenting yourself as an authority, because of some comments from others. But he clearly is the authority when it comes to his strain.

As a side note, I've never come across sandlewood aromas in toms haze. But, I have come across some truly outstanding plants.

 

[astra007]

i've grown the spicy/sandlewood haze and i've grown the fruity smelling haze. i still believe that originally there were 3 haze cuts, lets call them A, B, C. SSH was 1 and neveilles was another cut with NL. where the B went only god knows.

my post with the 3 pheno's of 2 P1's was a simple example for the layman. we breeders know different but im not going to write out DNA and biology of plants. have fun all and try to keep it clean

learned alot about the haze that i did not know other then 1 pheno went to ben of sensi and another to shantibaba @ greenhouse seeds in 1984. other then this im learning - thank you

 

[bushweed]

Haze B was lost late in the eighties/ early nineties by Neville. The Haze B as described by Shantibaba to be the haze component in LaNina/ElNino is a specific version of Mullumbimby Madness from Eastern Australia, that was said to be 75% sativa of Thai and Colombian origins.

Regarding a clue to the equatorial "Holy Grail" such as the Highland Oaxaca and Santa MartaGold (South and Central American varieties) a certain, unmistakable flavor comes to mind: that of incense cedar/frankincense/burgundy/floral with spicy/savory undertones. Coffee, chocolate andfine tobacco were also present, but the sweet incense cedar is what I most recall from theHighland Oaxaca and Colombian Gold varieties. The Thai was more complex with morespicy/savory aspects atop a finely distilled burgundy (probably more from the cure) and sort of a"dying" floral, sickly-sweet aroma that was unmistakeably Thai herb (sometimes from Hawaiian swell).

An important aspect to note here is that, according to the best of my knowledge, most high qualitysativa of the era was in some way shape or form of Thai origin (or greater Himalayan, but for simplicity’s sake referred to as "Thai"). This includes the Oaxaca, Colombian, Panamanian,Hawaiian among others of the late 1970's. Most of it supposedly came from Thai seed stock.Having sampled many of the region-of-origin varieties of the time, I must concur.

Regarding the NY Hz - logic dictates that an indoor grown commercial strain will by necessity be a sativa/indica hybrid - so it might be prudent to search for incense traits in Afghan herb as well. But its certainly possible that there are elements of the original haze in the NY commercial variety, even if it is only whatever component is found in NL#5Hz.

 

[astra007]

RUSTY420; i never see you post anything in this thread so why say im full of shit. if you have opinion, please share it! or go whack off somewhere else. all you seem to post is negative; have you ever grown?


many thanks bushweed. was the NL#5 x 5 maybe the lost haze B there were supposed to be 19 hybrids of the NL and what they call #1 is the true NL as the #1 hybrid is history and the #2 is oasis which i believe by the taste and coloring to be a mazar hybrid. the #9 is lost now too as i cant seem to find it anywhere.

 

[Tom Hill]

Bigherb,

I gave you the answer to these reports you speak of already in the previous post #1058. I do not care who reported it, or how many times. They, and you are wrong if any of you think the haze I work with shares any similarities at all with the uptown, or the leathery sandalwoody type Dutch Haze. I am very familiar with them all Bigherb, YOU are not. So kindly shut the fuck up about it. Or at least just provide links of these reports instead of trying to speak all matter of factly about it as you did in post #1055 """"That this trait is present in tom hill haze aswell as other colombian traits such as sandlewood incense but SHHHH he doest like when i mention that""" Yeah you got that right, I don't like that, because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. This what you're doing here is not research, it nothing more than acting like a pesky lil girl who can't take no for an answer and just keeps on pushing and pushing her agenda. I'm tired of it. Get a life. And those posters you have such a hard on for are like a dime a dozen in California right now, everybody and their brother has one, big deal, lol.

Big City, thank you, exactly right.

 

[astra007]

to the master tom

to the master tom

sandalwood; arjans, the flying dutchman and others have that trait in them but not original. a breeder may release a haze but the customer knows it only as HAZE, years ago there was a platinum silver haze that smelled AND tasted of sandalwood but it was a hybrid. correct me if im wrong tom.

my specialities run in the purples, whites and blues as well as the hashplants; at one time i had every blue hybrid on the market from the blue velvet to the widowmaker and my best were the blue jock and the bluemoonshine. remember easy rider? i created the blue rider. hehehe great smoke but tasted like sour berries and made your saliva glands kick into overtime.

 

[Rusty420]

RUSTY420; i never see you post anything in this thread so why say im full of shit. if you have opinion, please share it! or go whack off somewhere else. all you seem to post is negative; have you ever grown?.

no i dont grow weed.. i just troll now days.....you post some funny shit like: 'Dj short used no Afghan in his lines' and not expect peope to leave you rep.......wheres all your pics bad man..


Bigherb: were the reports of incense from the growers lucky enough to get mauimaui's f2 thh?

 

[astra007]

yup dj shorts used no afghan in his original lines; he did later on when he created the blueberry INDICA. you see in pre 1970's the afghani if around was just another hashplant and he created most like FLO, BLUE VELVET, BLUEBERRY; before he went to dutch passion.

i dont do pictures, i could but i learned long ago that i need to prove nada to imbeciles like you. any1 can post a pic copied from somewhere and it proves nothing. now a smoke report is something else and the color of the bud and hairs, the formation of the bud growth and the age of the clones; thats where a grower can prove his worth.

i've ordered from serious seeds for example and can tell you exactly how it came, CAN YOU? how about nirvana? planetskunk?, aloha,
shall i keep going? mr.nice, dr.chronic, high-land seeds, dope-seeds, seedsman

 

[Rusty420]

ok dude, similar to sam and his skunk the indica was added later, thats not what you said initialy though...i still dont believe a word you type, and probably never will.......the information in your posts is trivial anyway, you obviously werent there either...i dont claim to know anything, but still think you post misinfo based on my tiny experience...

haze was invented by a nam vet, who lived on a corn farm in Virginia...his sister mary was a leper and he used the stems of the haze to pick of her falling skin, thats were the sandlewood smell comes from, the farm was in a field next to corn, check it on google. mary was a member of the choir and the local pastor said she could sing good..

• seed company names[/]

• 
  
  (i can do it too..)

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

Big,

I was turned onto Tom's haze by the hazy lady herself. Man, I miss her......anyway...

I don't remember her talking about sandalwood/incense/church scents in her posts. Can you please link where she said that those smells were prevalent in Tom's line as I couldn't find it? I remember her mentioning oil can/metal shop smells, but not incense or whatever.

FWIW, I'm growing a handful of very nice THH females and males right now. They're in week 5 of flower, and so far I'm not getting any incense type smells.

Thanks, big.

HB.

 

[420247]

If sandalwood, incense is what you guys are looking for... I found plants like that in Serious Seeds Kali Mist

 

[bigherb]

bigherb,

I appreciate your passion for Haze. It's one that we have a mutual connection with.

You made it an obsession to read every thread on Haze for the last few years. You've asked the same questions over and over again. You've had doors slammed in your face over and over. And you've annoyed the shit out of a lot of people over the years with your constant "incense" and sandlewood" talk. lol

Sam could have answered all of your questions in 15 minutes, but he made you put the work in to learn for yourself. And, his posts above was probably validation for you and all the time you spent. You've never stopped trying to learn the history, and for that I commend you. If it wasn't for you ruffling feathers and continuing to ask these questions, we might never have gotten this story.

Now, in that process you have annoyed some people. And, I think it's pretty obvious that you've annoyed the shit out of tom. He's not jealous of you man. I think he's sick of you trying to stamp his line with the terms incense & sandlewood, a line where it might not be appropriate.

I also recall him posting to you where you would likely find these aromas and it fell on deaf ears at the time. Only now, we are finding out he was totally right with his suggestions to you.

Anyway, I would suggest you grow out a few packs of Tom's haze. Don't relay second or third hand information to the breeder of the strain. You are presenting yourself as an authority, because of some comments from others. But he clearly is the authority when it comes to his strain.

As a side note, I've never come across sandlewood aromas in toms haze. But, I have come across some truly outstanding plants.

I know we spoke before an ahd our lil words ,i feel your compliment is abit of a slap in the face an not so genuine .The Folk i got mad are sad an Lame .I ask you or anyone to provide a quote or link where i asked a grower in there thread a question an annnoyed .It hasnt happened ,i have always been polite an thankful for all an any experiences shared but sometimes asked for more detail .

Who has it bothered other folks that i wasnt even asking the questions directed to .That is hilarious an pathetic sad an shows the character .

Tom can speak for himself an has ,our beef wasnt about me spekaing on his line ,it happened before that an was related to the line of lames i just explained .My passion an desire to know what starins hold the trait i love .He did tell me about Nevs stock an this was something i knew for some time already .I have grwon out Nevilles haze an Sk/hz ,both amazing But not Frankies .



Now i dont wish to fight with you but your overall post is upsetting ,I never stamped his line with anything .I ahvnt experienced incense in his line for the umpthteen time i have just shared others reports which are here an new .To be fair an honest i grew his line an it was not to my full potential soo i cant give a fair description .But i didnt taste/smell nothing sweet about it ,that i like .As for the suggestion thanks but i have over 10 packs worth of tom hill haze


What really got me pissed is you tell me you havnt experienced incense in his line but reported it an the similarites to NYC haze .Are you bugging out or on other meds



Tom's haze in the Big city

remember that one big city ,ill post some quotes

post #31

I'll try and get some lights out pics when I can, but I'm always worried about disturbing the photoperiod..

Smells. they all have a similar spicy hazy incense, but the undertones vary from plant to plant. Sometimes I pick up some artificial chocolate smell like the scratch and sniff chocolate stickers from a couple of these. stems mostly have a lime scent

post #39
Sampled the 12+ week tester bud last night. It definitely surprised me a little. A quite cerebral experience. Very much like the best Haze I encountered in NYC years ago. I expected a 30 minute pop from an early tester. But, there was about an hour of intense up, followed by another hour of not as intense UP. either way, it kept me up late. Motivating, but not racy. Pretty clear, too. Very enjoyable

post #52

hi bigherb

I don't feel like I'm qualified to give a detailed smoke report yet. All I can say is that it's pretty fantastic stuff. Still waiting for a good cure before elaborating. Next time, I'll post a couple dry nug shots.

Also, I have found a second purple haze girl. This one has an entirely different structure and has lime green buds with good resin coverage and purple calyx tips and purple leaves. It looks a lot like the one they have on the boo of Toms Haze. It's also the stretchiest of Toms Hazes I've grown so far. Smells are totally different, sharp and spicy incense. the other purple was more fruity incense.

IN case you didnt know sandlewood is used in certain incense

I hope you understand my point as i dont wish to argue but have to keep it real



1luvbigherb

 

[bigherb]

Bigherb,

I gave you the answer to these reports you speak of already in the previous post #1058. I do not care who reported it, or how many times. They, and you are wrong if any of you think the haze I work with shares any similarities at all with the uptown, or the leathery sandalwoody type Dutch Haze. I am very familiar with them all Bigherb, YOU are not. So kindly shut the fuck up about it. Or at least just provide links of these reports instead of trying to speak all matter of factly about it as you did in post #1055 """"That this trait is present in tom hill haze aswell as other colombian traits such as sandlewood incense but SHHHH he doest like when i mention that""" Yeah you got that right, I don't like that, because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. This what you're doing here is not research, it nothing more than acting like a pesky lil girl who can't take no for an answer and just keeps on pushing and pushing her agenda. I'm tired of it. Get a life. And those posters you have such a hard on for are like a dime a dozen in California right now, everybody and their brother has one, big deal, lol.

Big City, thank you, exactly right.

If you dont care who reported it than why have you bothered answering me ?

Its interesting you responded to me in the first place an was a surprise .Someon either told you i mentioned your name .You might have a big head an look for post with your name using the search engine .Or you have been researching me more soo than you admitt



Seems you have trouble comprehending when i said

That this trait is present in tom hill haze

I was referring to Rootbeer which hazy lady has reported ,But id imagine you'd ignore that or say it didnt happen

Now
Why the need to curse ? why the neeed to address me about sharing others reports on your line .Big city reported incense in your line in his grow thread i quoted above an you complimented him on his grow LMAO

Shut the Fukk up ,LOL .You are that mad at what brother ? Lame really sad an funny ,Thats how you talk get alife im the lil girl .Pushing what you are a joke , i havnt started a thread on this i only mention this when teh subject comes about .What is a low blow is sayin you odnt care what your costumers have said an disreguard there experience


promsie you wouldnt talk like that to me in person

it kinda crazy how i have Ruffled ceratin breeders feathers on teh haze topic .But what even more funny is the status somepeople put you an Nevil at an than you show your true colors in this fashion .Its crazy to me how some of the most skilled folk act in these manners .You know people talk alot of shit about sams but i applaud how he has handled his online disputes .I cant say the same for you an Nevil .For a grown man to curse an be bothered by ones happiness well what more can i say

You apologized once in my rep section ,in other words said i took it the wrong way .Well i gotch say ya sorries an you aswell should think before you talk .Because i have less than a handful of member sin out communhity oi consider a friend .But if hazy lady tells me she experience somthing i believe it

Listen you fruit cup ,hazy was growing that haze line before you even got your stock .I have had many extensive convos with hazy lady an got more details than were posted.Soo dont dare put any doubt on her knowledge or experience .

Quotes from hazy in her silver blue an tom hill haze too thread

Hey Miau, always good to see you buddy
You didn't see yours all this time!, oh!, you just love making me envious
There wasn't so much frankincense it was that musty, musky?, there is a touch of the spice spicy/smoky taste, ( I said I have trouble describing it, smoky as in wood smoke, kippers or salmon smoky) I have a few Skunk Haze from Shanti that are the fruity, strawberry sweet Haze? (I am starting to think MNS isn't Haze at all, or at least not what I know as Haze lets say that. I think most have had enough of my Haze theories for now eh! )
This is genuine, I would bet my house on it, Tom Hills Haze is the real deal, I never doubted it was but I never expected to taste the real thing like I did, I had sort of given up, and I looked around too, lots of Haze hybrids, a few 'pure' Haze, none had this taste, now I couldn't care less which pheno's I get, I saw it as a numbers game, do x amount and find every pheno, knowing that taste is there too almost guarantees I'll find my holy grail, for me that taste was the hard bit, soon I can die happy

Tom wasn't kidding about the duration and it lasting 4 hours, it really does go on.......... and on, it isn't tiring but you are always aware your high, I usually forget and end up making a joint but didn't consider it with this stuff, lovely, I can hardly wait to kill the 3 oldest I have, at least one of them has the genuine taste I know as Haze, but I think 2 may have it.
When I took seeded buds off 5 plants the first smoke I had was full flavoured musky Haze tasting, I was/am thrilled, but afterwards I had a similar taste from another that I had forgot existed, it's a 'soapy' version of the musk, I may have smoked the same bud and it was a bit soapy but I don't think so, I was nicely high off it or them despite them being seeded bud so I don't expect any hay

Hi buddy, the purple I found reminded me so much of an old Colombian import, it even gave us the tell tale red eyes just like the old weed did, nice weed, not seriously potent but very nice.
I know Tom believes it to lean heavily towards the Thai side and no doubt the high is very similar, the citrus zing on 70% of the plants stems etc seems to be right, but whatever he did during his last OP seems to have thrown a ton of S.American pheno's, the net is full of them

The colombian purple pheno if i recall correct she named pepper church ,which i mentioned in her thread .

You have quotes from Big city in my post above than hazy lady right above an 2 others below ,an im sure there are afew others but i believe i made my point

Money mike

first pheno chopped....lemon/lime/citrus/haze pure..mild paranoia...
the bottom is the last pheno chopped....calyx stacker..chocolate/purehaze sandlewoodish aroma....have had mild visual trails...not too much paranoia...more so than the top citrus pheno

By Northern Lights-

"The smell is a very strong peppery/spice smell with a nice funky incense undertone. The high is stimulating and very psychoactive, and at this point it tastes just like it smells, very unique

 

[Big City]

What really got me pissed is you tell me you havnt experienced incense in his line but reported it an the similarites to NYC haze .Are you bugging out or on other meds

Relax man. nothing to be pissed about.

Incense is a very broad descriptive term. It's not just those woody aromas you always refer to.Let me make it clear so there is no confusion: I've never compared any of the smells of Toms line to frankies, church, sandlewood, or woody incensy aromas. The only time I compared it to the NYC hazes is when I described the high. If I thought it smelled like frankies. I would have said, this stuff smells like frankies.

I think you are misunderstanding what people are saying, and trying to make it fit your own ideas. Because I read the quotes above and don't really see them saying the trait exists in this haze line. especially not in my posts. And, I'm giving you what I have experienced first hand.

BTW, Money Mikes quote about sandlewood was in regards to a Haze hybrid, not the o haze line.

 

[mofeta]

bigherb Tom Hill

 

[bushweed]

Hi bigherb, when you say G backcrossed his Punto rojo, do you mean he crossed progeny of a mother back to the mother, or more a case of crossing his bag seed male and females to produce seed?

Which raises an interesting point...what was the father of those seeds he found in the bag of Punto Rojo?

I imagine it was selfed ,You could probably give me a more accurate decription of why those imports of yesteryear had seeds in them .I thought is was partially a natural tendency of survival

Hi bigherb, I'll respond with a quote from Sam:

The Original Hazes never did have much hermis, maybe the Haze with Thai bloodlines had a few. We just never used hermis for breeding period.

So this suggests that the early lines that were Colombian and Mexican had very few intersex traits with which to self replicate, unless some Thai was involved, and furthermore Sam says that hermis were not used in breeding the original haze. This then takes us back to my original inquiry; what was the father of the early cross, and was it really backcrossing? In the strict sense I think not.

The reason why there was so much seed in the early bag seed was because the practice of removing males and producing sinsemilla is relatively new in the New World, and didn't seem to take root until the 70s. Whereas in India and Thailand, it is reported that farmers have been removing males for centuries.

 

[bigherb]

Relax man. nothing to be pissed about.

Incense is a very broad descriptive term. It's not just those woody aromas you always refer to.Let me make it clear so there is no confusion: I've never compared any of the smells of Toms line to frankies, church, sandlewood, or woody incensy aromas. The only time I compared it to the NYC hazes is when I described the high. If I thought it smelled like frankies. I would have said, this stuff smells like frankies.

I think you are misunderstanding what people are saying, and trying to make it fit your own ideas. Because I read the quotes above and don't really see them saying the trait exists in this haze line. especially not in my posts. And, I'm giving you what I have experienced first hand.

BTW, Money Mikes quote about sandlewood was in regards to a Haze hybrid, not the o haze line.

Maybe your right ,but its abit upsetting once again my view or point an post is made to look like somnthing its not .But i feel you should have chose your words more wisely an dont know why you continue trying to make a point that dont exist ,incense is mention by you more than once musk an spice have been used by others

Your right about money mike it was a hybrid

But never once did i use the word Frankincense or church in reference to Tom hill haze .INcense yes it was the word you used brotha clear as day in several post


My point of the intial post that Tom got upset about was that Rootbeer was reported by hazy lady in a pheno of THH along with other colombian traits

Lets talk about It an make it very very clear ,i have never tried to make anything fit my own idea ,I have simply stated my opinion's an shared others reports such as yourself .If you refer to my many uptown convos .I have long said i thought its possile Frankies was an Ohaze pheno ,not all of the 100 uptown haze hybrids .Now with the Article an my knowledge of the brothers Coming from NJ an having brought major weight to the East coast im sure there was a NYC connect , it makes a thought more possible .Add to that Mt nectar an elder coming from that area just recently posted in my Origins of haze thread

on the question to incense ...maybe frankenscense...but to judge ones palate vs anothers is subjective to the individual.......the phenos were everywhere when it came to the Haze

Now i dont know where you seen me mention woody as a incense trait .If soo it was a rarity ,I know incense damn well an yes its used to describe a range of tones but they all share a common trait amongst them .BUt again Church an Frankies was never used buy me to describe Toms haze .


In my haze i grew it was nothin citrus or fruity from toms haze it was more sharp spice an metal shop


I dont want to argue with you or this thread to become a royal rumble .I just want everyone to see me for me an understand my post not take them for what one or 2 people think an change my point with words not in my post .Incense / Frankies



1luvbigherb

 

[bigherb]

Haze B was lost late in the eighties/ early nineties by Neville. The Haze B as described by Shantibaba to be the haze component in LaNina/ElNino is a specific version of Mullumbimby Madness from Eastern Australia, that was said to be 75% sativa of Thai and Colombian origins.




Regarding the NY Hz - logic dictates that an indoor grown commercial strain will by necessity be a sativa/indica hybrid - so it might be prudent to search for incense traits in Afghan herb as well. But its certainly possible that there are elements of the original haze in the NY commercial variety, even if it is only whatever component is found in NL#5Hz.

Bushy

Sup brother much love an respect

BUt You seem a little off course on this topic lately


As for haze B i dont recall IF or when Neville said he lost it or it was just disreguarded because the only ones worth keeping were the 2 males and that first haze female .I imagine it was one of the 2 most but believe it was disreguarded .I dont think she survives an dont believe Shanti ever seen her


but this is just a quote of some info he shared

After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant, I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E.
Plants B,D and E were females, of which B was the best. I tried all possible combinations and the best was B x C. BC was actually grown commercially alongside 5HzC1, so it was a 10/11 week plant. This fact alone indicated that HzB was a Haze Hybrid to something early. I suspect that most of BC's quality came from Dad.

also remember

Female Hazes were not used to produce commercial quantities of seed.
N

NOw im sure sure why the mention of haze B at all ,if it was to help astra007 understand cool .BUt you might see that our brother is cool but clearly not on the same page as us .

As for the thought that Haze cant be grown commericially well the Fellas from the Cruz throughout the 70's would tell you a different story .I know it was different because you cant compare agreen house to indoor an the genes werent too far inbred at that time but you have gdtrfb who's thread (DWC Original Haze Hedgerow) I believe shows you can still grow Ohaze commercuially under the right conditions


1luvbigherb

 

[blan-k-flor]

Bump for this thread!

Seedsman´s Original Haze