Occupy Wall Street: Not on major media but worth watching!

[dagnabit]

how exactly is a consumption tax with an indexed poverty level + 20% prebate unfair?

 

[bs0]

how exactly is a consumption tax with an indexed poverty level + 20% prebate unfair?

Because it hits the middle class harder than anyone else.

Just think about it.

Lessen tax burdon on the wealthy, increase tax burdon on middle class, keep tax burdon on poor equal.

*edit*
And if 20 years of data wasn't telling enough, the rich *are* getting richer and the middle class is disappearing. What you describe would result in a ruling class and then the rest of people. It would be the destruction of the middle class. And I'm not trying to sensationalize, this *is* what would happen.

 

[MIway]

i kinda dig the debate actually.

they need flow pads though... ;-)

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

... several in this thread have made the comparison.

Care to cite? I mean, if you're talking about a specific post and all.

 

[dagnabit]

Because it hits the middle class harder than anyone else.

Just think about it.

Lessen tax burdon on the wealthy, increase tax burdon on middle class, keep tax burdon on poor equal.

*edit*
And if 20 years of data wasn't telling enough, the rich *are* getting richer and the middle class is disappearing. What you describe would result in a ruling class and then the rest of people. It would be the destruction of the middle class. And I'm not trying to sensationalize, this *is* what would happen.

how so?
the middle class being able to keep their whole paycheck and receiving quarterly checks from the government is going to hurt them how exactly?

i thought it was about fair share?



DB
ill show you mine when you show me yours

you want me to go digging?
go fish..

how 'bout this?
ill show you three you show me the one?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

yet you cant even find a single post that prompted you to call me a bigot?

It's linked to the comment.

the comparison is made on both sides of the"news" constantly...

And you can't point to one. When individuals make aspect oriented observations, you can't paint entire demographics with your conclusions, especially when you can't cite references. You disagree with what's happening and that's your prerogative. You just don't back your comments very well.

... you want me to go digging?

I was interested in your basis, not your baseless conclusion.

 

[dagnabit]

It's linked to the comment.

long gone..
way to many rep msgs silly...

And you can't point to one.

sure about that?

how about i point to one where you are dealing with someone making the comparison?

Lol. Might wanna stay with the news instead of the cartoon channel. The Egyptian uprising was largely peaceful. Most of the violence was perpetrated by Mubarek loyalists.

but hey there are bunches...

did you even read the OP?!?!!?

There's a protest that started on the 17th. People are camping on wall street, attempting to start a non-violent revolution similar to what we've already seen in Egypt and other countries earlier this year.

do you actually read any posts? your own huff post story makes the idiotic comp. insofar as to say our government would likely try to pull a mubarak.

fucking clownshoes DB..

 

[In~Plain~Site]

So much for facts

Check out the ego on this character.

"We'll take your jobs" - I'd love to see a wallstreet trader try to manage a room of 3rd graders. It would make great tv.

Smilies

"We won't hire you to landscape our yard anymore, we will do it ourselves"

I remember back in college, when I lived on the same dorm floor as the business school people (I was in a top 10 in the country engineering school and the business people were in one of the top business schools in the country too).

The business/finance students on a large majority were incapable of doing math, never really had any homework, and spent most their time trying to one-up the others in what new clothes they had.

They had hard tests in school too, like throwing a 'business casual party'. That was literally a final in one of the classes. They were graded by how well they mingled and how they dressed.

The ones I still am in any contact with are now making $200k+ a year.

So, I would honestly LOVE to see these people try to do real work... Instead of just sitting on everyone else's money, and making bad/risky decisions that cost everyone their retirements.

The banks all got bouyed up. Everyone else just got screwed. And this bozo has the nerve to call out people who do real, hard work (teachers).

(I also know a lot of teachers. None make more than $45k/year. And that is not very much.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

... how about i point to one where you are dealing with someone making the comparison?

Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit
Lol. Might wanna stay with the news instead of the cartoon channel. The Egyptian uprising was largely peaceful. Most of the violence was perpetrated by Mubarek loyalists.

That's specifically about Egypt, the fact their populous and the army were largely peaceful yet many Mubarik loyalists were violent.

Not a mutha fuckin thing to do with comparing OWS to whatever. Just another case of dag reads article and paints with giant brush.

 

[bs0]

how so?
the middle class being able to keep their whole paycheck and receiving quarterly checks from the government is going to hurt them how exactly?

i thought it was about fair share?

Since when is 'fair share' based solely on the amount of money you spend and not the amount of money you make?

Truthfully, you are penalizing people for doing what makes an economy function: the exchange money for goods or services. Under the system you describe, the wealthy would receive a disproportionate benefit in comparison to *everyone else*.

The only good facet of a consumption tax is that you can tax people who have illicit income much more easily. Something you, as a user of this board, should probably also have as something to consider.

 

[flubnutz]

funny how it is really powered by dissatisfaction the same as the tea party movement, from a different direction. they had an effect (um, they lost the senate for the republicans, oops ... ), enough to shake the establishment and bring us ... sarah palin. oh and michelle bachman. and also almost made the biggest economy in the world, the nation that prides itself on free-market capitalism, whose currency is the world standard for security ... deadbeats on their debt. we went from neo-cons to comic cons.

geez , hopefully these guys can do better

 

[Headbandf1]

 

[dagnabit]

That's specifically about Egypt, the fact their populous and the army were largely peaceful yet many Mubarik loyalists were violent.

Not a mutha fuckin thing to do with comparing OWS to whatever. Just another case of dag reads article and paints with giant brush.

this is the first poster..

Originally Posted by T_B_M
Seriously? A bunch of complainers having sit-ins is going to accomplish something? I think not. In Egypt and other places with uprisings, they use rocks, fists, guns, and whatever they can find. These assbags look like hipster douchebags who have no idea what a revolution is.

here is DB saying you dont want OWS to escalate to that level of violence

Lol. Might wanna stay with the news instead of the cartoon channel. The Egyptian uprising was largely peaceful. Most of the violence was perpetrated by Mubarek loyalists.

You're advocating what spirals into anarchy. You're about as likely to get what you want as you would tearing a c note into pieces and expecting it to grow back together

dude you just want to argue i think..

second page of the thread you say the exact same thing i said on this page you are arguing against..

JUST FUCKING STOP you are making yourself look even more trollish and i didn't think that was possible.

 

[dagnabit]

Since when is 'fair share' based solely on the amount of money you spend and not the amount of money you make?

Truthfully, you are penalizing people for doing what makes an economy function: the exchange money for goods or services. Under the system you describe, the wealthy would receive a disproportionate benefit in comparison to *everyone else*.

The only good facet of a consumption tax is that you can tax people who have illicit income much more easily. Something you, as a user of this board, should probably also have as something to consider.

so you are saying oprah spends the same as joe blow from down the street?

income is easy to hide.
spending is virtually impossible to hide.

when joe buys a 1996 camary for 2000 and oprah buys a new bently for 200,000 who pays more?

lets do simple math?
i think illicit income should be untaxed. as should all income.

imagine joe blow from down the street is not forced to give the government an interest free loan out of every paycheck.

you would tell a person to go fuck themselves if they demanded 1/3 of your pay up front in an interest free loan.

but you really have not studied the fair tax plan have you.

 

[In~Plain~Site]

Sounds like nothing short of capping income would make some of these folks happy.


I saw the 200k figure dropped earlier, as if to say that's too much money to make.

Good thing that's only one persons opinion

 

[Headbandf1]

Did you see the info graphic for Rupert Murdoc (News Corps) settlement with the family his employees were Hacking Cellphones and other private communications. The figures were a 3.2 million dollar settlement vs. 6.8 billion. If you saw the graphic it would make your jaw drop, absolutely disgusting. And he isnt even american. But 59% of his wealth come from US holding is what it said.

Best written comparison i can make is a communications satellites shadow on the planet Jupiter

 

[bs0]

so you are saying oprah spends the same as joe blow from down the street?

income is easy to hide.
spending is virtually impossible to hide.

when joe buys a 1996 camary for 2000 and oprah buys a new bently for 200,000 who pays more?

lets do simple math?
i think illicit income should be untaxed. as should all income.

imagine joe blow from down the street is not forced to give the government an interest free loan out of every paycheck.

you would tell a person to go fuck themselves if they demanded 1/3 of your pay up front in an interest free loan.

but you really have not studied the fair tax plan have you.

But when oprah gets a camary and throws the rest of her money in untaxed investments she wins.

Since you are into "simple math", here's the math:

Oprah makes $1mil.
She lives lavishly on it, spends 500k on stuff during the year. Pays 100k tax. Effective tax rate 10%.

Your "joe" makes $50k. Has to spend $45k to just to get by. Manages to save $5k Pays $9k in tax. Effective tax rate 18%.

Very simple. It is skewed more and more to people with with higher income. But if you don't understand percentages it may get past you.

I fully understand how the "fair tax" works, and like many machinations of that political party, they named it to be exactly the opposite of what it is.

 

[dagnabit]

But when oprah gets a camary and throws the rest of her money in untaxed investments she wins.

Since you are into "simple math", here's the math:

Oprah makes $1mil.
She lives lavishly on it, spends 500k on stuff during the year. Pays 100k tax. Effective tax rate 10%.

Your "joe" makes $50k. Has to spend $45k to just to get by. Manages to save $5k Pays $9k in tax. Effective tax rate 18%.

Very simple. It is skewed more and more to people with with higher income. But if you don't understand percentages it may get past you.

I fully understand how the "fair tax" works, and like many machinations of that political party, they named it to be exactly the opposite of what it is.

you left out one critical element..


you see joe gets the 28,500 "prebated spending"
cutting his 18% down to about 7%


AND
he gets to keep his entire paycheck instead of lending it to uncle sam..
allowing him to actually build savings.

now in your scenario joe makes 50 loans uncle sam 5 and spends 45 to live.
joe don't get to save...


way to keep the poor from ever getting ahead...

 

[bs0]

Sounds like nothing short of capping income would make some of these folks happy.


I saw the 200k figure dropped earlier, as if to say that's too much money to make.

Good thing that's only one persons opinion

$200k isn't that much, and I was the one who stated that number.

When the person is 2 years removed from college in an education that they had tests in throwing 'casual work partys', it's indicative of how skewed the regulations are for that one particular industry. And also, a good explanation for the collapse to begin with.

 

[dagnabit]

bso:

do you believe there should be some sort of maximum personal income limit?