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Low Mg, High P for High THC Content?

Y

YosemiteSam

no science in this post

no science in this post

but, grown outdoors at about 4500 ft in coco with chem nutes. P never went above 30 ppm...Mg went as high as 70 at peak feeding. i suspect the thc/terpine will be ok with most who smoke her.

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edit...in all fairness i do not know if this plant would have done better with more P...no control used at all. interesting discussion though.
 
O

Ophis

YosemiteSam said:
but, grown outdoors at about 4500 ft in coco with chem nutes. P never went above 30 ppm...Mg went as high as 70 at peak feeding.i suspect the thc/terpine will be ok with most who smoke her.


View attachment 138059
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"Denying" P or Mg from a plant that is used to low levels of P or Mg, it is not "stress"..
Doing so,on another,might be catastrophic..."
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Can you say with certainty,that because of "P never went above 30 ppm...Mg went as high as 70 at peak feeding" or because "grown outdoors at about 4500 ft" or because "in coco with chem nutes" or because of who knows what else,your plant exhibits the trait " the thc/terpine will be ok with most who smoke her"?
Are you sure that the plant was really stressed in any way or not?
Relevant...


:tiphat:(nice looking plant,mate.)
 
Y

YosemiteSam

It was healthy the entire grow and I am not a believer in stressing a plant if I can help it. Last two weeks (when most of the trichs formed) were mid 70s daytime and mid/upper 30s at night...but no frost. So maybe a little stress from that. Plus, of course, the little bit of altitude.

Also, technically all I can say is that I did not feed above 30 ppm. It was a zero runoff grow so I suppose P could have built up in the coco...although at those levels I would assume the plant used most of it pretty quick.

edit...and yea, you are right. I have seen studies where one yr plants had signs of Mg deficiency and the next year, in the same soil, they had none. But, the yr they showed signs they faced stress from heat and drought. Could work exactly the same with P.

Most excellent point.

Honestly I have run anywhere from 30 to 90 ppm P on different grows and cannot tell the difference...even on that stretch question. Perhaps I should bump to 50-100 for that just in case scenario.

Thanks for making me think about that.
 
O

Ophis

YosemiteSam said:
Last two weeks (when most of the trichs formed) were mid 70s daytime and mid/upper 30s at night...but no frost. So maybe a little stress from that. Plus, of course, the little bit of altitude.
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Even those,might not have been stress factors...These, might have been "situations" that the plant tolerated,without having to,drastically, alter any of its biological processes and "behaviour",to adapt... Or even,situations that were mandatory and ideal,for the plant,to reach a step closer to its "genetic potential"....
:tiphat:
 
E

elmanito

At 4500ft (1371 km) you should also consider the UV level which is higher than at sea level.

Namaste :plant grow: :canabis:
 
E

elmanito

Ophis said:
So P(plenty..),S and Fe up till now,for sure...

Well I'll need a lot of time to search & write everything..
Something I don't have right now..
Time...
So,you 'll have to forgive me,not being able to write down every enzyme,catalyst and every other formula...

The thing is that I don't believe,that supplying the plant with extra P,S or Fe you will "force" it,to
produce more trichomes or more THCA per trichome(gland).Likewise,I don't believe that reasonable levels of Mg or N or whatever else lowers the potency...Neither I believe that "starving" the plant from a mineral,has a positive impact,generally...Adopting such techniques & practices,maybe could show some "gains" here & there..But,there is no way,that there isn't a "price to pay",somewhere else...

The necessary minerals,used in THCA(..and other cannabinoids,also) biosynthesis,have just to be in adequate amounts.. Probably (and logically...)you will need to supply more of them,if you trigger another kind of "mechanism",which will force the plant into producing more trichomes or THCA/cannabinoids per gland.
Maybe inducing a hormone,like Methyl Jasmonate or a "stress" factor like U.V.b irradiation will get the "job" done...Some kind of "stress" to activate the desirable response..
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Thanks for the link BTW :yes:

Gypsum contains CaSO4 and have no effect on the pH

Rockdust contains all kinds of minerals & trace elements
picture.php


Sea water extract & sea solids contain a lot of minerals & trace elements.
picture.php


Sugarcane molasses contains Fe, S, Mg, Ca

P you can get from different sources, but the best imo is guano extract, not the powder.

Namaste :plant grow: :canabis:
 
S

SeaMaiden

I have a quick question : are you guys measuring ppm of organic inputs or chemical salts? If you're measuring salts I can understand that , but quantifying organic inputs via ppm is problematic for its inaccuracy. I'm trying my best to wrap my head around the rest of this thread.
 
Y

YosemiteSam

I have been talking about chemical salts.

I am just starting to learn about organic. I am trying to come to grips with not trying to quantify every single thing and instead simply creating the most diverse and natural system possible. It goes against my very nature...but at the same time obviously seems right to me and, imo, produces taste you simply cannot get with the chemical salts. It is proving to be a slow, hard transition for me...but a journey I know I want to make.
 
S

SeaMaiden

Thanks for the clarification. I know exactly what you mean, it was by trying to learn how to quantify or get a more accurate measure of organic inputs that I learned that it is very difficult to do so. Unfortunately, I have also learned that I cannot grow as well as I can cook, which is to say by feel.
 
rrog

rrog

Active member
Veteran
SeaMaiden, quit feeling your food.

Yosemite, you might at some point consider reading Teaming With Microbes. Latest edition. It spells this whole thing out is a simple way. Not a difficult read and explains why a well built soil with natural amendments like compost, EWC, ACT will absolutely coddle and protect your plant. Maximum food availability as well as a super immune system.

If the soil is built correctly right from the start, you will not be in charge of the grow any longer. The microlife takes care of all aspects of life support.
 
E

elmanito

zymos said:
Sea salt is 85-90% sodium chloride. I guarantee you could kill a plant with it.
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Depends what sort of sea salt you use.Celtic sea salt harvested in Bretagne France has 84% NaCl, but sea salt from Okinawa Japan has even 73% NaCl.In a normal dosage sea salt (2-3 gr / liter) would not kill a plant, but exceration with even the use of fertilizer NPK i agree the plant would be dead.With the use of sea solids or sea water extract you can drop the use of NPK fertilizer by 80%, wheather it is chemical or organic.

Namaste :plant grow: :canabis:
 
ShroomDr

ShroomDr

CartoonHead
Veteran
SeaMaiden said:
I'm trying my best to wrap my head around the rest of this thread.
Click to expand...

All this 'ppm level' data is from 40 years ago. It is comparing different plants from different locations...



I fail to see any relevant information beyond that.

Mg's spot in ATP and P interactions are all irrelevant to the question of whether low Mg and High P are optimal.



There is nothing to wrap your head around.
 
Microbeman

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Absolutely agree that EC measurements are whacked to hell applied to organic matter. I actually learned this the same way Seamaiden did but confirmed it by contacting a scientist with the composting council. Interestingly though a tractor drawn EC meter is valuble for discerning carbon variables throughout a field. [for those of us growing giant fields of...:)>{)
 
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