Electrical question regarding light controllers

[michmedclones]

Hey guys, quick question. Just moved into the new house a couple months ago and after fixing just about everything I'm ready to go to the basement. Problem is I only have 100a service to the house

but I only have a small area to work with so I'm only going to use 4k in the flower and 400 max in the veg with alot of fluros. Anyways, I like the light control that sunlight supply offers, it can run 4 1000w HID with a timer and a timer for your fan, the specs on it are: 30 Amps/240 Volts/60 Hz./4000 watts. (http://sunlightsupply.com/p-12175-titan-controls-helios-4.aspx) I have a 30a breaker in my box that isn't being used. I also found another light controller that has identical specs but only draws 20a (http://sunlightsupply.com/p-13850-titan-controls-helios-5.aspx) My dryer and range are gas which saves me some, and its generally just me and the lady, with my son a few nights a week, so the most power we use is a couple of tvs, and lights etc so we don't use a lot of the 100a that is available. First question is a 30a breaker big enough to run something that draws 30a, or would I need to change it out to a 40a breaker to maintain the under 80% pull/capacity? Next question is, do you think that it is safe to do? I don't have much money to spend thats why I'm trying to avoid upgrading my power at the house as of now, but theres no way I'm putting my family or house at risk for that either. I figure if I run the flower room from 10p-10a that would cut down on the chance of the stove or washing machine/dryer being turned on during the time the room was running, as well as we both work 40-50 hours on a different schedule so the most that is generally on in the house is the tv and the lights in the great room or bedroom pending on time, obviously the fridge consistantly pulls power but besides that I'm fairly convinced I'd be safe but I'm unsure of the breaker size (see question 1).

Last question is how much is an appropriate charge to get the power upgraded? I wanted to get to 200a sooner or later, but I don't have the coin to swing that and more equipment needed on top of lots of drywall for sound insulation as well as other supplies needed to build etc. I have 100a like I said, and the electrician I know said DTE would have to come and switch the line coming to my meter from the pole, and then from my meter to my new 200a box. Do I have to pay DTE to come out? What is an acceptable price to upgrade the box to 200a andinstall the light control, and maybe 30' total of 120v for fans and accessories. Its a real small job and the box is literally in the room, I am over estimating on the legnth of wire just to be safe. I got an estimate, but the guy I know is really money hungry and I feel like hes trying to take advantage of me.

Thanks if you've made it this far I didn't mean to go on and on just wanted to get some advice. I really appreciate it

 

[rives]

No you cannot draw 30 amps on a 30 amp breaker (but you knew that, didn't you!). You also cannot just swap out the breaker to 40 amps - the wire has to be sized to the breaker. There is no way that the second controller that you listed comes anywhere close to code conformance. With ballast losses, each 1k light is going to pull around 4.5 amps - it's simply too much.

All that being said, you could run your 4 1k lights on the 30 amp circuit - just because the box is rated at 30 amps doesn't mean that is what it is going to pull, that is just what it is wired for. If you have 4 lights plugged into it, you will be pulling around 18 amps which is well under the 80% rule (30a x .8 = 24). If you start pushing that 24 amp level, use a different circuit for your incidental equipment.

As far as costs for a service upgrade go, there are far too many variables to give you an accurate picture. I know that the utility here doesn't charge for a service upgrade, but yours may be different.

 

[GanjaIsMyLife]

yep what he said but on average a service upgrade is gonna cost around 2k and you need a permit pulled so if you don't own the home the landlord has to approve and then the electrical company will have to come shut off the power or disconnect so the electrician can replace said service panel with the upgraded one.

a good way to convince a landlord is to tell them you want a hot tub those use about 60 amps. tell them you will pay for half.

 

[michmedclones]

Someone told me you were not allowed to run lighting above 20 amps in residential? Does anyone know if thats true or just being too careful? I live in MI, the house was built in 91 so its not old. I own the house so I'm not worried about nosey landlords or anytihng of the likes plus the room is stealth. I'm just worried about fires and all that, I don't want to burn out my equipment either. If the timer isn't a good idea I can just have 240v boxes installed and dedicate a 15a breaker for 2 lights and use another for all accessories, I can piggyback some of the circuits in my house due to the builder over wiring the rooms and putting outlets and swithes everywhere.

Thanks a lot guys I appreciate the responses

 

[rives]

I've never seen any code limitation on the circuit amperage for lighting. It would be interesting to see the guts of the boxes that you are thinking about - there should be some intermediate, lower amperage protection (fusing or breakers) in them from where they make the step down from the 30a feed to the 15a receptacles. Since they are rated lower than the feed, and the cord set to the ballasts would be the same, the lighter components should be protected to whatever they are rated at.

 

[greenmatter]

100 amps is more than it sounds like ..... watts/volts = amps ..... 4000/240 = 16.66666

like rives said your lights are running around 18 amps, even though it is on a 30 amp breaker. with a gas range and dryer your bulbs will be the biggest load on the box. the next biggest things will be the stuff that produces heat ( toasters, microwaves, and hair dryers) i call those 12 amps each if i cant read the data plate on everything. normal lights, the computer and the stereo take up very little.

from what you have posted i think you could probably run 8000 watts in lights and still not need a new panel. you said the house is over wired ...... do you think you are the first grower? was the gas stove and dryer there when you bought the house? some of the electric work you need may be right in front of you......

go pick up a book on basic electricity. this stuff is simple if you get a good book. home depot or lowes have books on the shelf that are easy to understand. for $20 and a couple hours reading time you can know all you need to and never have to call an electrician

 

[michmedclones]

The gas stove and dryer was here when I bought the house, but I am certain I am the first grower, my parents actually knew the lady that I bought the house from. When I say over wired I meant that there are A LOT of outlets and switches so there is wire running from the top of the box to EVERYWHERE. I like simplicity and low hazard obviously, if I can hook up this 30a control box to my 30a breaker and run it with the lights and an inline fan that would be ideal and based on the recent responses it shouldn't be a problem. I'd also like to know if there is some sort of breaker on the inside to step down the current from 30a to 15a, I'd almost have to assume its in there or bulbs and ballasts would be frying real quick no?

 

[michmedclones]

After thinking it through and talking to the electrician he said we can upgrade to 150 with a new box, going to go for that and then just use 15 amp breakers for 2 lights each running 240 with a few 110s for fans and co2 etc.

Thanks for all the help I just think the own circuit and get some timers is going to be safer for what I'm looking to do

 

[RomulusUSA]

Honestly, I don't see why you want to rewire it if you have a 30a/10g breaker already. Like you said, its verrry unlikely that you are going to be pulling 56a of power on top of 24a for the show. Unless you happen to have a large TIG or some mills goin' at all hours but then we wouldn't be having this conversation as you would be welllll ahead of the rest of us on the power requirements!

If anything, I'd drop an extra 120v/20a/12ga circuit into the room for extra stuff, and then use the 30a/10ga for the lighting as you'll have at least 6a/240v overkill on that circuit. Should keep costs down quite a bit.

And also, not having a breaker in the box won't hurt the bulbs or ballasts at all... Unless there is a short. Then it'd be best to blow a breaker before the wiring catches fire, vs after and then maybe if lucky it'll blow the main 30a... Tho I realllly really hope they have a breaker in there too, otherwise that product should NOT be on the market!

Edit: I just looked at that Titan controller. Dude, skip that! You can wire something up yourself that is far better, and safer. A 240v water heater timer from Homedepot plus some conduit and a few boxes and you're done...

 

[Hammerhead]

I dont uses that controller. I use this one http://www.dxsoundco.com/ Basic plus controller plugs into my dryer outlet(30a). I ran the dryer outlet up the wall to have easy access to switch to the dryer when I need it.. The lights are off anyway...

 

[RomulusUSA]

I really like those. I couldn't remember the name, but that will work perfect for most folks as well as the OP for sure!