Ballast Reliability: Digital or magnetic?

[jarff]

I like digitals ...been runing Lumateks for about three years,with never a problem.AF runs a small hydro shop in the area where I live,and has sold 500* Lumatek,s in three years with only 7 returned for replacements to short outs or whatever.I can buy digitals at cost from helping my friend at his shop on occassion.I swear by them....and I def. have a higher yield as compared to magnetics.
Shops im the area usually just exchange a new ballast for a bad one off the shelf so no waiting for it to be sent back to distributor and waiting for a replacement.
I have never tried anything besides Lumatek so I don,t know how the other digitals stack up to them.I,m sure there is a lot of garbage out there which gives digitals a bad name.

jarff

 

[whazzup]

I,m sure there is a lot of garbage out there which gives digitals a bad name.

that is very true. Some are only on the market a very short while. Service is important, but better is a product that doesn't fail that much. Keeping a magnetic ballast you want to replace as a spare is always a good idea.

 

[rrog]

At this point it's either this CAP: http://www.horticulturesource.com/g...4822/?osCsid=6251ac81947010b38eb53603c4ad9acf

or this Quantum: http://www.quantumhort.com/quantum-1000-watt-dimmable.html

I sure appreciate all the different perspectives

 

[draco]

never used mags, only digital lumetek for three years. gotta get the right bulbs for digital...

got two 1k's. i like being able to dim down to 750w or 500w. nice feature. i can run them both at 500 and get 1k from two points, etc.

had one go south and got a replacement. i think the bulb didn't agree with it... since i'm running Ushio, zero probs.

 

[rrog]

That's another issue... specific bulbs for digital ballasts. I guess it's not such a big deal as long as you know up front and get the right bulbs. Ushio are popular.

 

[BigDawg]

i've read that the switchable (mh to hps) magnetic ballasts aren't that good due to the wiring or something. People seem to have problems. If going with magnetic you should get one that's either MH or HPS, not both.. in my opinion. Especially if reliability and longevity is the goal.

I have been interested in quantums as they get great reviews.. but i'm just not sure if it's worth switching to all digital. They are $150 now for 600 watts. That's awfully cheap. I like the price but it makes me wonder..

if you only run a few lights or less, it won't hurt to try the digitals I suppose. I'm also not sure if it's best to get 1000's in digitals. I would personally stick to 600's if going digital.

 

[rrog]

Good note about the potential switch issues with mags. You've heard this, you say?

An awful lot of the reviews about these seem to be people with 1000s. Whether Quantum or other. Have you heard of specific issues with 1000w digitals? I'm not thinking this has been identified as a known issue, as I've been reading a lot of forums for ballast comments.

 

[rives]

There shouldn't be any more of an issue with decent quality switchable magnetics than a standard magnetic of comparable quality. They both use the same coil, but with different capacitor values and the HPS uses an igniter. Typically two capacitors are used with the total value being appropriate for one application, and then one is switched out of the circuit and the remaining cap is correct for the other type of lamp. The igniter is switched in and out of the circuit as needed at the same time - pretty simple, actually.

 

[spurr]

At this point it's either this CAP: http://www.horticulturesource.com/g...4822/?osCsid=6251ac81947010b38eb53603c4ad9acf

or this Quantum: http://www.quantumhort.com/quantum-1000-watt-dimmable.html

I sure appreciate all the different perspectives

IMO you should check out MicroMole, better than both of those brands.

 

[BigDawg]

There shouldn't be any more of an issue with decent quality switchable magnetics than a standard magnetic of comparable quality. They both use the same coil, but with different capacitor values and the HPS uses an igniter. Typically two capacitors are used with the total value being appropriate for one application, and then one is switched out of the circuit and the remaining cap is correct for the other type of lamp. The igniter is switched in and out of the circuit as needed at the same time - pretty simple, actually.

that was the problem, actually. A post i saw on here a while back had a problem with the MH side working, but not HPS. Not sure what brand it was, so that could be a possibility. There's another post on here where there ballast burnt out at the receptacle. It was an Xtrasun. The thread went on to say that switcheables have more wiring inside that can fail or short out..Their shit was burnt inside and smoking.

 

[rrog]

Appreciate all the thoughts. Spurr, the MicroMole seems to totally kick ass. More expensive, but looks very heavy duty. And Japanese, not Chinese. That seems to be the best overall.

I would like to point out that while this may be a common debate, it was very specific and helpful to me. Thanks to all that contributed.

 

[BigDawg]

watched the videos from monstergardens and here are the results typed out:

600 watt micromole - 1100 par: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrfXVseU0d4
1000 watt micromole on super mole setting - 1800 par: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYcsQgInT8A
1000 watt micromole on normal 1000 setting - 1650 par: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYcsQgInT8A
1000 watt micromole dimmable on 600 setting - 1400 par: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYcsQgInT8A

all videos used ushio hilux opti-red bulbs

seems like only the 1000 watt ballast is worth a damn as far as PAR results. They do seem to have more PAR output than the lumatek. If they are reliable it seems like the micromole 1000 is best.

It's only sold at one place. The place that reviewed it in the videos. They are charging $315 for 1000 dimmable lumatek and $297 for 1000 dimmable micromole. Other places have Lumatek 1000 for $260

Seems funny to me. They sure are trying hard to push these micromoles.

I wouldn't buy any digital ballast unless you live close to a hydro store that can swap it the day you bring it in, in case one messes up. There are new companies and new digital ballast coming out all the time. There is always an issue with them. Then another product is released making new claims or new features.

 

[rrog]

I'm thinking that one place has a deal with MicroMole. They may be a Japanese company or such trying to break into the US. They price their Lumateks to make MicroMole look like a deal. Not uncommon.

I'm going to look into micromole more.

 

[BigDawg]

i do like how quiet they are and how they soft start/soft dim. I don't understand what a good PAR rating is though for 600's or 1000's. It's a company in California that has them made in Japan.

 

[BigDawg]

while we're at it.. may wanna check these out: solis-tek with ignition control: http://www.solis-tek.com/1000_watt_electronic_ballast_dimmable.html

ETL listed and UL Approved. they even work with eye hortilux bulbs.

check this video out here: http://www.growwurks.com/solis-tek-digital-ballast-1000w-600w-400w-hps-mh-dual-volt-120-240v.aspx

 

[whazzup]

man these digital ballast manufactures are bullshit..

watched the videos from monstergardens and here are the results typed out:

600 watt micromole - 1100 par: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrfXVseU0d4
1000 watt micromole on super mole setting - 1800 par: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYcsQgInT8A
1000 watt micromole on normal 1000 setting - 1650 par: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYcsQgInT8A
1000 watt micromole dimmable on 600 setting - 1400 par: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYcsQgInT8A

all videos used ushio hilux opti-red bulbs

seems like only the 1000 watt ballast is worth a damn as far as PAR results. They do seem to have more PAR output than the lumatek. If they are reliable it seems like the micromole 1000 is best.

It's only sold at one place. The place that reviewed it in the videos. They are charging $315 for 1000 dimmable lumatek and $297 for 1000 dimmable micromole. Other places have Lumatek 1000 for $260

Seems funny to me. They sure are trying hard to push these micromoles.

I wouldn't buy any digital ballast unless you live close to a hydro store that can swap it the day you bring it in, in case one messes up. There are new companies and new digital ballast coming out all the time. There is always an issue with them. Then another product is released making new claims or new features.

Though you can compare output using the same reflector and lamp it doesn't say anything about the total output of the lamp. If you measure the light just 1 ft closer you will get higher readings. This is irradiance or ppfd, not ppf. That you can only measure in an ulbricht sphere that integrates all light. I will get some micromole readings of lumens specified lamps up here shortly.

Basically the MicroMole seems to output more and/or more efficiently to the lamp.

 

[Phillthy]

made the switch to digital and will never go back.

 

[rrog]

Solis Tek looks very solid. Seems like Solis Tek and Micromole may be a notch above both quantum and Lumatek

 

[whazzup]

Yes, they seem to be a bit different than all the others. Also the micromole has a very high boost position (also +15% on 1000W ballast, +10% on 400 and 600W) where Lumatek did 5% (super lumens position). Anyone knows what the boost output of the solis tek is? other than the smart green lights and the random on-switch I don't see a lot of special features compared to other electronic ballasts.

 

[spurr]

Though you can compare output using the same reflector and lamp it doesn't say anything about the total output of the lamp. If you measure the light just 1 ft closer you will get higher readings. This is irradiance or ppfd, not ppf. That you can only measure in an ulbricht sphere that integrates all light. I will get some micromole readings of lumens specified lamps up here shortly.

Basically the MicroMole seems to output more and/or more efficiently to the lamp.

Hello my friend

(I mean that, I consider you a friend even though we disagree on some points and playfully pulled each others' chain)

I for one would love to see some lumen data wrt micromole and Ushio lamps, even better would be quanta (PPF) data. I will send you the lamps if you don't have them.

Do you have access to a good spectradiometer (e.g., very low % stray light, scanning double-grating monochromator and high signal:noise ratio above 300)? If so, would you also please test report SPD (as quanta)? Raw data from spectroradiometer is preferable to a pretty graph that is more for looks than function.

FWIW,
My next big project is a DIY Ulbricht sphere . They are quiet easy to build, to provide high accuracy and reliability on par with commercial models that are many tens of thousands of dollars. The trick is using the correct shape and reflective paint (e.g., "Spectrolon").

Once I build my Ulbricht sphere I will buy a good OceanOptics spectroradiometer (from UV-b to IR) for ~$5,000, as well as a few more Licor terrestrial and underwater quantum sensors (which are not used under water in our case). That is, until I can afford a really good spectroradiometer for > ~$50,000, such as the OL-576 spectroradiometer from Gooch & Housego, i.e., very low % stray light, scanning double-grating monochromator and high signal:noise ratio above 300. Then it's on like Donkey Kong! I will start testing the shit out of everything I can get my hands on.

Oh yea, I'm making the Ulbricht sphere large enough so I can put whole luminaires inside, not just lamps! I may make two U.spheres: one for lamps and one for lamp + luminaire (reflector).

P.S.
Were you serious about the invitation you offered me, to meet you in Holland and check out Gavita, etc., and drink some coffee? If so, I would love take you up on the offer in the first half of 2012, at some point. I think we have more in common than not in common .