Occupy Wall Street: Not on major media but worth watching!

[dagnabit]

all executives should make $1 a year. Now what's your point?

you assume the follow up...

there is none.

if $1 ok...
i really am curious as to what people think is "rich" and what they think is "to much"

nothing more...

but i guess the question was to hard...

personally i dont believe in a cap. i think it would stifle motivation and innovation.
thats not some card up my sleeve awaiting your answer as you seem to be expecting...
but all i can gather from your statements is "income disparity is bad"
i only ask for quantification out of curiosity.
our emo friend assumes a surveyor is a multi millionaire (7 mil??? where did he pull that one from)who is among the evil "rich"

i truly just want to know where someone goes from being human to subhuman by income at the top of the scale.

i would think those at the bottom(say under 45k)are already treated as subhuman by most.

but there is also this hatred of "the rich" so who are they?

 

[budbasket]

Was just watching live coverage and 24 hr news outlets are calling the "occupy wallstreet movement" the leftist tea party. I don't really care what the label is at least these are the people who actually understand what went wrong with our economy(US) vs joining the democratic vs. republican debate. I do not understand why people will not stop disagreeing on the subject of whose right and whose wrong, whose to fault and whose to blame, but actually talking about the problems which we actually face.

I am past the point of arguing whose fault all this was, why can't we get past it and just work together and figure the entire idea of economies out. I think hedge funds should be outlawed, why should any of these members not be prosecuted with racketeering? Even if the housing market crashed, mass businesses fail, the supposed "1%" or anyone associated with exclusive membership into these funding programs continue to gain insane profits regardless. I think the idea of betting against markets is insane. How can anyone make money off the idea that another one fails? I guess that is the idea of gambling but how can any global/single country economy be gambled with?

Money doesn't exist in America, it isn't real. How can something be valued when all it takes is a computer transfer from the fed to banks to create hundreds of billions of dollars? Idk another rant from the basket....stay safe/stay medicated everyone

 

[Secrecy]

Re: Occupy Wall Street: Not on major media but worth watching!

There should be tighter regulations to protect against fraud. Fill all the fucking tax loopholes and make everyone pay theur equal share, freedom isn't free.

That and I think every fucking politician should wear a vest with badges representing how much money they got from who.

That and make lobbying illegal, stop the uber wealthy from buying politicians.

Might take part of my vacation and go out there, stand up to the man.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

you assume the follow up...

there is none.

Sure there is... right after you say there isn't. - "personally I don't believe in a cap...".

if $1 ok...
i really am curious as to what people think is "rich" and what they think is "to much"

nothing more...

No more or less relevent than your opinion, right?

but i guess the question was to hard...

No harder or easier than answering yourself, right?

personally i dont believe in a cap. i think it would stifle motivation and innovation.

thats not some card up my sleeve awaiting your answer as you seem to be expecting...

It's the motivation for your question. If we get to the crux maybe you'll ask different ones. I'll dispel your worries below.

but all i can gather from your statements is "income disparity is bad"

No, that's your polar limitation to reasoning. (Let's avoid the whole slavery thing and concentrate on global economics.) Record income disparity is wrecking the bottom's chance at a decent living standard.

i only ask for quantification out of curiosity.

So what? You lack curiosity of your own demographic.

our emo friend assumes a surveyor is a multi millionaire (7 mil??? where did he pull that one from)who is among the evil "rich"

that's between you and emo

i truly just want to know where someone goes from being human to subhuman by income at the top of the scale.

soundbites

i would think those at the bottom(say under 45k)are already treated as subhuman by most.

but there is also this hatred of "the rich" so who are they?

Take that up with your own paradox.

It's pretty apparent you don't want an income cap. Shouldn't take that long to admit. I don't personally care whether falling off a wallet breaks an ankle or a hip but too much is wrecking what once worked.

It's the same scenario as where we limit taxes. One can look at the envelope and say the bottom 50% should be paying federal income taxes. One has to read the contents to discover the bottom 50% not only can't afford federal income taxes, the vast majority of their income goes right back into the economy. For every dollar that goes into the economy, +$1.50 is generated.

So any argument that suggests the top is somehow circumvented from maximizing profits due to no federal income taxes on the bottom 50% is statistically false.

The bottom 50% makes up more to the economy than what is lost in revenue. By allowing the bottom 50% to gain wealth instead of lose, (which is more like the bottom 98%), the bottom 50% can start paying federal income taxes again. This kind of assistance is only supposed to be temporary and the private sector is supposed to fill in and relieve government necessity. Instead they're sitting on record capital and bitching at government to give em more breaks.

Doesn't matter that the Fed prints more money, there's a limit. If the top has too much, the bottom has too little. We don't have to guess whether the top will ever be satisfied. The answer to that is NEVER. As long as it's there for the taking or stealing, the top will sink our boat to lift theirs'.

Here's where you look at the face value of your principles and determine whether they're relevant to the problems at hand. We all know the schtick of everybody fending for themselves and it doesn't work. The top never gets enough and they only get better at taking what belongs to us.

So they make up this lie that opponents of me-vs-the-world tactics want a handout. At that point you might as well start with the fat mama jokes because it doesn't get any more pathetic than that.

You don't have to like government to realize that business will clean your financial clock much quicker than world-class catastrophes usurp our rights. The only entity that could possibly keep you out of the soup line is government limits on non-government power.

Your ideology is pure and romantic and all. What you lack is practical application, (we're not a libertarian society) and critical reasoning opportunity. Whether you possess critical reasoning ability pales to romance. Everything falls into this-or-that with little consideration as to why it doesn't fit... or work for that matter.

 

[Anti]

A lot of people I talk to act like they think the protest is being hurt by the fact that they haven't got an official list of demands.

Personally, I think that's the beauty of it. They know something is wrong, but they're open-minded enough to come together to decide what to do as a group, rather than being puppets in the hand of some shadowy backroom politicians.

You don't need an MBA from Harvard to realize that something is wrong here. This is not the country we were promised as children and brainwashed to believe in.

I think it's beautiful that people are willing to stand up. It's a shame to see so many people who just want to rain on this parade. There's cynicism and it has its place. But there's also hope and it has a place as well.

Cities all over the country are spontaneously forming similar protests and the coverage is getting better every day. For the first 10 days you couldn't find it on the evening news, but I've seen reports on a daily basis from several news channels and local protests got time on my local news.

People voted in Obama because they wanted hope and change. And when he didn't provide it, some people decided to give it a shot on their own. I am obviously somewhat cynical about it because I haven't hitchhiked to NY to be there, but I would be lying if I did not admit that there are two voices in my head on this matter.

 

[dagnabit]

Sure there is... right after you say there isn't. - "personally I don't believe in a cap...".

i thought you had the cognitive ability to realize that would be assumed..
not a hidden card up my sleeve.
sorry i gave you to much credit.

No more or less relevant than your opinion, right?

right!

No harder or easier than answering yourself, right?

i didn't think so but it takes 10,000 words to say why it's easier not to quantify.
after all
no more or less relevant than any other opining..

It's the motivation for your question. If we get to the crux maybe you'll ask different ones. I'll dispel your worries below.

what do you think the motivation is?
(hint:it shuffled the feline loose from its mortal coil)

No, that's your polar limitation to reasoning. (Let's avoid the whole slavery thing and concentrate on global economics.) Record income disparity is wrecking the bottom's chance at a decent living standard.

the easiest and most effective solution would be a wage cap.
call it a "tax" if you will...
make over $? and you pay 98%

So what? You lack curiosity of your own demographic.

to the contrary i am curious to see where my demographic fits in!
this would be the ultimate "motivation" for the question i guess...
not a paranoid fantasy concerning a loaded question..

soundbites

cop out

It's pretty apparent you don't want an income cap. Shouldn't take that long to admit. I don't personally care whether falling off a wallet breaks an ankle or a hip but too much is wrecking what once worked.

It's the same scenario as where we limit taxes. One can look at the envelope and say the bottom 50% should be paying federal income taxes. One has to read the contents to discover the bottom 50% not only can't afford federal income taxes, the vast majority of their income goes right back into the economy. For every dollar that goes into the economy, +$1.50 is generated.

So any argument that suggests the top is somehow circumvented from maximizing profits due to no federal income taxes on the bottom 50% is statistically false.

The bottom 50% makes up more to the economy than what is lost in revenue. By allowing the bottom 50% to gain wealth instead of lose, (which is more like the bottom 98%), the bottom 50% can start paying federal income taxes again. This kind of assistance is only supposed to be temporary and the private sector is supposed to fill in and relieve government necessity. Instead they're sitting on record capital and bitching at government to give em more breaks.

Doesn't matter that the Fed prints more money, there's a limit. If the top has too much, the bottom has too little. We don't have to guess whether the top will ever be satisfied. The answer to that is NEVER. As long as it's there for the taking or stealing, the top will sink our boat to lift theirs'.

Here's where you look at the face value of your principles and determine whether they're relevant to the problems at hand. We all know the schtick of everybody fending for themselves and it doesn't work. The top never gets enough and they only get better at taking what belongs to us.

So they make up this lie that opponents of me-vs-the-world tactics want a handout. At that point you might as well start with the fat mama jokes because it doesn't get any more pathetic than that.

You don't have to like government to realize that business will clean your financial clock much quicker than world-class catastrophes usurp our rights. The only entity that could possibly keep you out of the soup line is government limits on non-government power.

Your ideology is pure and romantic and all. What you lack is practical application, (we're not a libertarian society) and critical reasoning opportunity. Whether you possess critical reasoning ability pales to romance. Everything falls into this-or-that with little consideration as to why it doesn't fit... or work for that matter.

soundbytes

 

[dagnabit]

----- LIST OF PROPOSED DEMANDS -----

CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 REINSTATING GLASS-STEAGALL ACT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_Act --- Wiki entry summary: The repeal of provisions of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act in 1999 effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks. Most economists believe this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007–2011 by allowing Wall Street investment banking firms to gamble with their depositors' money that was held in commercial banks owned or created by the investment firms. Here's detail on repeal in 1999 and how it happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_Act#Repeal . If we wanted to have a BIG IMPACT and we were able to have only one slogan that we could paint on signs and chant during marches within earshot of press, it would be "PASS HR 1489. REINSTATE GLASS-STEAGALL" or "RE-IN-STATE the ACT GLASS-STEAGALL. IT MAKES THE WALL STREET GAMES ILLEGAL"

USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis in the following notable cases: (insert list of the most clear cut criminal actions). There is a pretty broad consensus that there is a clear group of people who got away with millions / billions illegally and haven't been brought to justice. Boy would this be long overdue and cathartic for millions of Americans. It would also be a shot across the bow for the financial industry. If you watch the solidly researched and awared winning documentary film "Inside Job" that was narrated by Matt Damon (pretty brave Matt!) and do other research, it wouldn't take long to develop the list.

CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections. The result is that corporations can pretty much buy elections. Corporations should be highly limited in ability to contribute to political campaigns no matter what the election and no matter what the form of media. The Supreme Court decision is really weird. Read it when you have a chance. The justices who argued for unlimited corporate contributions thought that wouldn't have an adverse effect on democracy and wouldn't undermine the citizen's view of legitimacy of elections. I'm not sure there's a word for that it's so strange.

CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE. No more GE paying zero or negative taxes. Pass the Buffet Rule on fair taxation so the rich pay their fair share. (If we have a really had a good negotiating position and have the place surrounded, we could actually dial up taxes on millionaires, billionaires and corporations even higher...back to what they once were in the 50's and 60's.

CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION and staff it at all levels with proven professionals who get the job done protecting the integrity of the marketplace so citizens and investors are both protected. This agency needs a large staff and needs to be well-funded. It's currently has a joke of a budget and is run by Wall St. insiders who often leave for high ticket cushy jobs with the corporations they were just regulating. Hmmm.

CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS.

CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door Legislation" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED. So, you don't get to work at the FDA for five years playing softball with Pfizer and then go to work for Pfizer making $195,000 a year. While they're at it, Congress should pass specific and effective laws to enforce strict judicial standards of conduct in matters concerning conflicts of interest. So long as judges are culled from the ranks of corporate attorneys the 1% will retain control.

ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS (Sorry Mitt Romney)

RE-ESTABLISH THE PUBLIC AIRWAVES IN THE U.S. SO THAT POLITICAL CANDIDATES ARE GIVEN EQUAL TIME FOR FREE AT REASONABLE INTERVALS IN DAILY PROGRAMMING DURING CAMPAIGN SEASON. The same should extend to other media.

not sure if this is the final but these are the demands...
i hope they stay out in the street till every single one is met!

they will become tourist attractions in 10 years or so...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/detailed-list-of-demands-overview-of-tactics-for-d/

 

[Anti]

not sure if this is the final but these are the demands...
i hope they stay out in the street till every single one is met!

they will become tourist attractions in 10 years or so...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/detailed-list-of-demands-overview-of-tactics-for-d/

These are all things that have been forwarded by a percentage of their active membership. Like candidates in a primary, they will be eliminated one by one until only Christopher Lambert remains amidst a lot of light and pyro.

It is an attempt at an unorganized true democratic process. We can laugh at it or we can improve upon it or we can STFU and watch what happens.

I think either of the later are the better choices.

 

[dagnabit]

i like the demands (issues concerning 4,5,7,9,notwithstanding)
i just don't see this sustaining long enough for them to figure out what their message is...

it could have been something but poorly executed.

i was just reading their forum and they are already tearing eachother to shreds over minutia..

clear direction and a common purpose is sorely lacking.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

not sure if this is the final but these are the demands...
i hope they stay out in the street till every single one is met!

they will become tourist attractions in 10 years or so...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/detailed-list-of-demands-overview-of-tactics-for-d/

This ain't Frank Luntz passing down the parameters to the tea party. This is a wave of many sentiments, many folks are disenfranchised for different reasons. And thanks for the post.

As for the last one, you're free to feel any way you want. Justification is a different story. Nothing wrong with ideology that doesn't work (so long as it's not applied and we don't suffer the consequences.)

One our foremost economists just finished a book about the Reagan revolution. Two words... it failed. Trickle down economics failed the economy. It produced more busts and the widest income gap since the depression. RR destroyed the accepted principle of shared sacrifice with the public. And it created the false assumption that government is the problem as we watch corporations buying them instead. RR destroyed the fairness doctrine and the professional level of discourse. Now we've got pill poppers and bug killers sitting in front of a mic and fomenting division.

Some things are rationalized with self. Some things (like how much it costs to live) transcend self and depend on others not destroying opportunity. They have and that's a big part of all the protests.


BTW: If that other post is a soundbite, you're a bot.

 

[In~Plain~Site]

Using terms like 'former pill popper' and 'bug killer' does alot for your message.


And more than likely the reason there will be division until the bitter end.

 

[InJoy]

A lot of people I talk to act like they think the protest is being hurt by the fact that they haven't got an official list of demands.

Personally, I think that's the beauty of it. They know something is wrong, but they're open-minded enough to come together to decide what to do as a group, rather than being puppets in the hand of some shadowy backroom politicians.

You don't need an MBA from Harvard to realize that something is wrong here. This is not the country we were promised as children and brainwashed to believe in.

I think it's beautiful that people are willing to stand up. It's a shame to see so many people who just want to rain on this parade. There's cynicism and it has its place. But there's also hope and it has a place as well.

Cities all over the country are spontaneously forming similar protests and the coverage is getting better every day. For the first 10 days you couldn't find it on the evening news, but I've seen reports on a daily basis from several news channels and local protests got time on my local news.

People voted in Obama because they wanted hope and change. And when he didn't provide it, some people decided to give it a shot on their own. I am obviously somewhat cynical about it because I haven't hitchhiked to NY to be there, but I would be lying if I did not admit that there are two voices in my head on this matter.

You started this thread so you already joined the movement.

Well done and welcome back did you say hitchhike or hijacked on the way?

Some people wanna brush them off as disorganized unemployed bums...but i've seen a 50 ish suited up lawyer talkin bout fightin for basic needs protection of anybody there they like the right to erect a tent or tents up to a certian size, maybe they are better off than some might assume.

Of course any mainstream media will show the ones with colored hair and piercings to make "normal" people take a certian view and discredit maybe even be fearful of joining these desperate desperados.

If you search you tube you will actually see they are well organized by this time, don't underestimate them...

OWS has a true solidarity to assume they don't have money and intelligence, with numbers growing expotentially every day.

They have a medical center, a legal center, internet center, FREE food and bedding for anybody that comes, a general assembly, that doesn't sound disorganized.

Not the bums lookin for a handout you might expect.

 

[dagnabit]

Using terms like 'former pill popper' and 'bug killer' does alot for your message.


And more than likely the reason there will be division until the bitter end.

just more RvD rhetoric....

Mr. dont be divisive offering more maddow talking points as if BO is somehow different than RR (other than color)

BTW: RR was just another government expansionist lib IMO...

 

[InJoy]

Using terms like 'former pill popper' and 'bug killer' does alot for your message.


And more than likely the reason there will be division until the bitter end.

Dam rite wtf 'former pill popper' and 'bug killer' ??????

 

[dagnabit]

BTW DB:
RR didn't kill the fairness doctrine...

BO did by XO on 7-11-11

then again RR or BO couldn't kill anything right?
the president does not have a "majic wand" right LMAO!!!!
i mean "agencies staffed by blah blah blah" "couldn't repeal prohibition blah blah blah" when your defending obusha but when you are playing blame games RR has the power?

BO=RR who killed the fairness doctrine again?
silly wabbit

 

[wantaknow]

well allen town looks pretty good right now compaired to where i live ,sorry boss,nomatter what happens in the next quarter ,i hope that everybody who reads this is shaken in reality for a moment ,plesa put food and ammo away there are plenty of guns to go around ,even if you dont fight your self ,put away for those who will ,leave can goods and ammo of any caliber outside after dark during marshal law ,where it can be found in a malebox nearby but not your own all mail movement will be suspended ,during marshal law an sos order will be instate ,thats shoot on site ,if they are willing to be shot at to move after dark to obtain ammo or food ,they will be patriots,if the un occupies the us ,they will opperate the same way the did in bosnia ,you should hide outside your home at night and sleep during the day ,do not trust a soul ,but know how to help with being seen ,this is a sad day in history ,,and it will only get worse.....tbc

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Using terms like 'former pill popper' and 'bug killer' does alot for your message.


And more than likely the reason there will be division until the bitter end.

Lol, you're one to talk. Aren't you one of the guys equating folks on temporary assistance as a way of life? Sorry, have to laugh.

Here's a hint - if I'm selfish or otherwise anti-social over given opportunity, I don't advertise.

Here's another one - if I'm not advertising, I'm not trying to make a pig's ear look like something it ain't.

 

[SpasticGramps]

BTW: RR was just another government expansionist lib IMO...

Yes. RR was not a conservative by any means. He was a statist (Neo-Con ie Progressive R) transferring wealth from the rich to the poor, expanding government intervention in people's lives, and building huge armies and going to war with them. An actor bought and paid for by banks, corporations, and the MIC. Just like every other before and after him.

Real conservatism died pre-WWI. We've lived in a progressive dystopia since then IMO. The country is now bloated, corrupt, and broke. Same state you find all totalitarian governments in on their death beds. If history is right we will revolt into another totalitarian dystopia. Maybe this time can different eh?

Trickle down economics states exactly what it is. Crumbs trickling down to the proles off bourgeoisie dinner plates.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Any destructive acts risk a black eye for the whole movement. If you want to help the protests, take your lead from 1960s civil-rights leaders. They took a whole lot more shit than you'll ever imagine and they overwhelmingly resisted violence, vandalism and sabotage.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Trickle down was a lie from the start. All one has to do is look at the numbers. The whole idea that the rich will generate a better economy when they're free and unfettered is baloney. We've repeated that baloney several times in history. There is no time in American history where voodoo economics has worked. It's a narrative... a story, not a successful economic formula unless you're at the top.

I didn't mention Reagan to infer conservative whatever. What conservative means in my lifetime is no change for the better unless you're at the top. Kinda funny, the Grand Old Party's inception was for business and the rich. No change here.