Need help with brown spots, stunted growth, and yellowing leaves on 2 young plants.

[PlateausOfLeng]

bobman: I think what you're saying is to just overturn the cup into my hand, then plant whatever doesn't fall away... am I right? Won't that be quite a shock for the plant?

Every day the 2 plants look healthier. The soil is becoming pretty dry at this point, and they seem to be loving it!

 

[bobman]

I will give you an example of what I have done to roots. when I switching from soil to hempy I took one plant that was about 15 to 20 inches tall and was growing in a 2 gallon container for a few weeks. I knocked off all the dirt then I sprayed the roots with a the hose from the sink. I then dunked the roots in a 5 gallon bucket of water and then back to the hose then back to the bucket. I wanted to get as much dirt off as possible so I keep going back and forth. The plant did not even even get stressed from what I could tell. The main thing with repotting is to make sure you have the plant balanced properly. The root ball is heavier and it can be awkward. I have accidently torn the plant from the main rootball. No saving it then.

If the plants are looking better than you can wait. If you have extra stuff laying around or the cost is not that much to you than I would transplant just for learning purposes. Sometimes those plants get worse before getting better. Just keep an eye on it.

 

[Dislexus]

REPOT!

Put them into new, slightly larger pots.

Rootbound is an inevitable issue but its easy to manage..

Don't use distilled water...

 

[PlateausOfLeng]

bobman: Wow, I didn't realize that you could be so hands on with the root system! Thanks for the info!

The plants are looking even better today, however, so I don't think I'll get to utilize this new info just yet. The Pineapple chunk (the one with the brown spotting) is looking a lot better. I think the plant routed its energies to the lower branches, because, though the top is stunted, there are two pretty big shoots coming out from the lowest node, one of which has alternating nodes. I'll take some pics tonight or tomorrow. The soil in both cups is very dry at this point, but the plants show no signs of drooping; instead, they are perking up significantly. bobman, I think you were spot on when you said over-watering was the main problem.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Plateus, if most pot-growers saw what *I* do to the roots of cannabis plants, I think they'd have a heart attack and fall over dead. It's got a lot to do with how well-established the root system is, but once it is so, you can practically rape that girl's feet and she'll keep on growing.

 

[Stress_test]

Should I use the 1:1:1 Potting Mix + Compost + Perlite?

It is Earthgro Potting Mix (from wal-mart), Garden Compost (also from wal-mart... says it has a small amount of lime added to regulate pH), and MG Perlite (which I rinse before using).

Or should I just give up on mixing that and try to find a garden store that has a more spendy pH'd potting mix?

I have seen folks grow herb in milk jugs filled with marbles, and they grow some beautiful plants.
The problem that sometimes occurs is: Situations just like this one... The roots are bound and the growing medium is very large, and chunky, and porous, so the roots won't separate as easily as if in soil.

EarthGro potting soil is NOT pre-fortified with nutrients, and is already a pretty fair mix, so I would suggest eliminating the mulch from your recipe.

bobman: Early on in the thread (before you arrived) I got advice from a few people to flush, then feed w/ pHed water. It had also been suggested later that I had under-fed them considering their age.



Unfortunately, I gave them this a few hours before you advised me to let them dry out and replant. The new growth on the first plant (Pineapple Chunk) is definitely not "lush", but it is greener than the last set of leaves when they were growing out (slight improvement).

So, when I mix up some new soil and replant... should I do that with the current soil totally dry? Should I break up the soil in order to get the MG off of the rootball, or should I try not to disturb the current soil? As I said, I do not want to move to a bigger container if I can avoid it. I'm going for a Micro-SOG with bonsai mothers... my other 3 (bagseed) mothers (each nearly 3 months old) are doing just fine in their 16oz cups.

I still agree with SeaMaiden and Bobman about the overwatering and ventilation/circulation. The advice to flush and feed was inaccurate in my opinion.

An example of how to wash the roots is this plant: It was an OG Kush that I was gifted last spring.
For the most part it looked to be healthy, but the soil was far too sandy and compacted, and wouldn't allow the roots to dry out properly.

As for root bound plants: A little trick that an ancient old Chinese lady taught me for making bonsai trees is; LillyMiller brand Plant Starter with Vitamin B1. As soon as you notice any signs, just mix a tablespoon per gallon with your nutes.
It cleans and freshens the roots, kinda like air-pruning em does. Sick or unhealthy roots die away and make room for fresh new roots.
It's a great product for keeping momma plants for long periods in small containers, and incredible if ya wanna plant, veg, and flower in a beer cup, cause they will never get root bound.

Like everything else tho: More is not better...

 

[PlateausOfLeng]

SeaMaiden: That's some pretty intense imagery

Stress_test: I had read that the EarthGro was not fortified, which is why I was mixing it with the "Garden Compost" (also from walmart).

EarthGro ingredients:

organic materials (primarily derived from one or more of the following: hypnum peat, forest products or compost), sand, perlite and a wetting agent

"Garden Compost" ingredients:

aged and processed forrest products, sphagnum moss, reco sedge peat, compost (leaf and mushroom), and lime as needed to adjust pH

I guess it seemed like the "garden compost" (I keep using quotes, because it isn't just compost... it's more of a garden mix) would add some pH buffer.

Thank you, by the way, for taking the time to post up those root pictures, very informative! Does the Vitamin B1 Plant Starter really work that well for keeping healthy mothers!? You've had good success with it? I never would have thought to use that product for that purpose!

_____

PLANTS UPDATE:

Both plants are looking great (well, ok, maybe the Pineapple Chunk doesn't look "great", but definitely WAY better).

Afghani Milk:





Pineapple Chunk:




Very strong lower growth, but should I be worried about this white stuff on the leaves:


The new top-growth isn't brown anymore, yay!

_____

The cups are starting to feel extremely light, but I've still not noticed any drooping.

 

[bobman]

Looking Good! Lets see how long those babies can go without water. My bet, Monday easy maybe longer. If you lift them and the cup does not feel empty you have more time. That cup will feel like air when you pick it up. Keep us posted. Did not see any white stuff but I will check pictures again.

 

[PlateausOfLeng]

I think the white stuff was just a trick of the light in the full-resolution picture. I don't see it as clearly in this resized pic. I checked out the plant and I can't see any white stuff.

 

[PlateausOfLeng]

UPDATE TIME!

Afghani Milk:



Pineapple Chunk:


______

So, I topped both of these plants a few hours before I watered them (which I did yesterday with pHed tap water... they were getting droopy and the dirt was shrinking and pulling away from the sides of the cups). They each had 6 or 7 nodes, so it seemed like time. The damaged leaves on the pineapple chunk have gotten pretty yellow, but do not let go when I pull on them... yet. I am thinking about trimming off the crispy parts of the leaves, but I don't know if it is really even necessary.

The lower leaves on the Afghani Milk have turned yellow in the 4 days since my last post. Not sure why... nitrogen?

 

[Stress_test]

SeaMaiden: That's some pretty intense imagery

Stress_test: I had read that the EarthGro was not fortified, which is why I was mixing it with the "Garden Compost" (also from walmart).

EarthGro ingredients:

organic materials (primarily derived from one or more of the following: hypnum peat, forest products or compost), sand, perlite and a wetting agent

"Garden Compost" ingredients:

aged and processed forrest products, sphagnum moss, reco sedge peat, compost (leaf and mushroom), and lime as needed to adjust pH

I guess it seemed like the "garden compost" (I keep using quotes, because it isn't just compost... it's more of a garden mix) would add some pH buffer.

Thank you, by the way, for taking the time to post up those root pictures, very informative! Does the Vitamin B1 Plant Starter really work that well for keeping healthy mothers!? You've had good success with it? I never would have thought to use that product for that purpose!

_____

PLANTS UPDATE:

Both plants are looking great (well, ok, maybe the Pineapple Chunk doesn't look "great", but definitely WAY better).

Afghani Milk:

View attachment 135693

View attachment 135694

Pineapple Chunk:


View attachment 135690

Very strong lower growth, but should I be worried about this white stuff on the leaves:
View attachment 135691

The new top-growth isn't brown anymore, yay!
View attachment 135692
_____

The cups are starting to feel extremely light, but I've still not noticed any drooping.

I think I also looked up your soil mix, but I don't remember for sure.

As for the LM B1, I add it to my reservoir every time I fill it.

When I first started using it I had a few screw ups due to experimenting and over doing it, but for years since I have had phenomenal success with it.

I would groom those plants and get rid of all that dead shit. It's doing nothing but increasing your chances of getting powdery mildew, or other pests.

 

[PlateausOfLeng]

Stress_test: I was thinking that I would prune off the yellowing leaves once they started to get crispy to avoid just such problems, but I wanted to get everyone's opinions first... I've gotten a lot of mixed feedback on pruning yellowing leaves. Some people say leave em till the plant lets them go when you give a gentle tug, and others are pro-active pruners, cutting leaves off at the first sign of trouble. I just don't know which way to go!

I'm going to see about getting some of that LM B1! Sounds perfect for bonsai moms!

 

[bobman]

Yea, I would not pull those off. They have made a good come back. new growth looks good. that yellowing is a little weird but I do not think its a problem. the thing is when you are in the middle of a problem or coming out of a problem those wounded leafs kind isolate everything. if you pull one off the problem will move to the next leaf faster. either way i do not think its to big of a deal but problems or deficiencies will spread faster if you take them off.

 

[bobman]

by the way, congrats. i think you have turned the corner. i think u learned a shitload this week. I think you encountered every problem you are ever going to face in soil. you are now a plant whisperer.

 

[PlateausOfLeng]

It sure feels like I learned a lot this week! It has been stressful, but it is nice to see some positive improvement, and I thank you all so much for your help and support!

 

[Stress_test]

Well you do what you want to do, but logic; no not logic... Common sense is that those dead, drying leaves are doing nothing good for the plant, but what they ARE doing for damn sure is blocking light and restricting airflow to the healthy leaves.

The new growth looks good and is an encouraging indication that the plants are on the road to recovering. So throw away the used up dead remnants and make em look pretty again, then ANY new symptoms won't be confused with shit you've already corrected.

 

[bobman]

Well you do what you want to do, but logic; no not logic... Common sense is that those dead, drying leaves are doing nothing good for the plant, but what they ARE doing for damn sure is blocking light and restricting airflow to the healthy leaves.

The new growth looks good and is an encouraging indication that the plants are on the road to recovering. So throw away the used up dead remnants and make em look pretty again, then ANY new symptoms won't be confused with shit you've already corrected.

Well, I dont know about logic or common sense but science will tell you if you pull leaves and you have problem it will advance faster. The problem is still working its way through so I would say leave them on. Haha stress, I got the last word. this thread is officially closed.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Science says that? I would love to learn more. I pull them when they have nothing left to offer the plant, and I would have removed those yellowed leaves a long time ago.

 

[bobman]

Science says that? I would love to learn more. I pull them when they have nothing left to offer the plant, and I would have removed those yellowed leaves a long time ago.

then read. these leafs are offering something, defense. for a new grower, with only a few leafs on the plant why risk it. sorry if i sound like a smartass, i respect you seamaiden and stress. i am in a hurry.

 

[SeaMaiden]

then read. these leafs are offering something, defense. for a new grower, with only a few leafs on the plant why risk it. sorry if i sound like a smartass, i respect you seamaiden and stress. i am in a hurry.

I have spent a good deal of my life reading, and still do. That's why I asked, it doesn't jive with what I've read. Nor does it jive with my experience. So, I Googled your assertion, and haven't hit on anything that seems to support what you said, so I went to Google Scholar. There's even less.

In fact, it's too easy to find references that support my practice of removing dead and dying leaves, at least as far as I can find in greenhouse practice manuals. Unless we're discussing plants that specifically don't like or won't respond well to that sort of pruning (palms, irises, tulips and other bulbs--all are perennials), otherwise I don't think it's synonymous with defoliation on such a scale as to kill the plant, which isn't at all what I'm advocating.

If it's yellowed with almost no green, or is necrotic to the point that it's got little else to offer (<30% green tissue), or if it's showing certain diseases (Septoria), then it needs to go. Especially in the instance of diseases like Septoria, it needs to go *and* be disposed of properly.

Again, if you have science that unequivocally declares otherwise, I'd love to read it.